Actually Pop and his defenders are idiots: the new Big Three that could save the Spurs' season

Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

Of course you are not. You apparently predicted that his shooting motion would doom him to failure and are intent on dying on that cross.

What you are not considering is how a PG gets his shots and from where versus how a PF does it. Not to mention the issue the change must've had on things for the entire team.

Have we seen similar poor shooting performances from other players on the team?

But hey you have fun playing shot doctor from your desk.

im open to him improving his shot. i think its unlikely that he'd find sustained shooting success with the form he had last year and still has. as a spurs fan, id be glad if he proved me wrong. i just dont see it. just like id be thrilled if he became a great point guard, i just dont see it happening

the only other spur shooting it uncharacteristically poorly has been zach collins. when comparing last year to this year, as his % has dropped from 37.4% to 28.6% (note that last year was collins' career high 3pt% and earlier in his career shot closer to 33%)

branham - 30.2% to 30.9%
vassell - 38.7% to 37.1%
tre jones - 28.5% to 26.7%
mcdermott - 41.3% to 45.5%
osman - 37.2% to 38%
keldon - 32.9% to 36%

everyone is more or less in line with where they shot last year, and near their career averages

so no, i wasnt buying that sochan suddenly went from a 24.6% shooter to a 43% shooter without seeing him fix his broken form. simplest explanation is that we were dealing with a small sample size and his early % was anomalous

Originally Posted by spurraider21

im open to him improving his shot. i think its unlikely that he'd find sustained shooting success with the form he had last year and still has. as a spurs fan, id be glad if he proved me wrong. i just dont see it. just like id be thrilled if he became a great point guard, i just dont see it happening

the only other spur shooting it uncharacteristically poorly has been zach collins. when comparing last year to this year, as his % has dropped from 37.4% to 28.6% (note that last year was collins' career high 3pt% and earlier in his career shot closer to 33%)

branham - 30.2% to 30.9%
vassell - 38.7% to 37.1%
tre jones - 28.5% to 26.7%
mcdermott - 41.3% to 45.5%
osman - 37.2% to 38%
keldon - 32.9% to 36%

everyone is more or less in line with where they shot last year, and near their career averages

so no, i wasnt buying that sochan suddenly went from a 24.6% shooter to a 43% shooter without seeing him fix his broken form. simplest explanation is that we were dealing with a small sample size and his early % was anomalous

We are talking about performance since he was benched. I guess you are hoping this new angle will work better?

That first line is obviously not true. Youre arguing against him shooting better.

Originally Posted by spurraider21

he has come off the bench exactly one time this season

Yep, and he's been terrible ever since.

Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

We are talking about performance since he was benched. I guess you are hoping this new angle will work better?

oh. that. as i already said, if him coming off the bench for one game and then promptly being returned to the starting lineup is enough to break his jump shot then imo he has no shot as surviving the nba. i think its more plausible we were dealing with an outlier % based on sample size

whats more likely. guy who hit less than 30% of his 3's in college and less than 30% of his 3's in his rookie season suddenly becoming a 40+ % 3 point shooter in his sop re year despite keeping the same shooting form... but then that accuracy disappears because he plays on game off the bench and doesnt come back when he resumes starting immediately thereafter? or

subpar shooter had a hot start to the season and has come back down to earth

That first line is obviously not true. Youre arguing against him shooting better.

its absolutely true. im open to the idea of sochan getting a better jump shot. im not rooting against him improving. i dont think its impossible for him to do so. i just havent seen him do it.

Pop needs to take the mic again so OP can have another aneurysm.

Originally Posted by NASpurs

I never get why a simple drive to the basket from the opposing team causes this team to collapse like a dying star and leave 3 point shooters open time after time especially when you have Wemby in the middle. Every ing team becomes a collective Steph Curry against us.

fpbp

Originally Posted by Chomag

12 Minutes Ago
Tanking is so stupid because there is no player in this upcoming draft that is going to help this team. There are some decent potential roll players or potential borderline all-stars but you don't tank for that. Having said that I still don't believe that they are tanking, it's just the coaching has realy been that bad.

This.

Originally Posted by TimmyBuckets

Pop needs to take the mic again so OP can have another aneurysm.

Pop was an idiot long before he picked up the mike, scro. I gave up losing my temper with his stupid ass about 15 years ago.

Originally Posted by spurraider21

oh. that. as i already said, if him coming off the bench for one game and then promptly being returned to the starting lineup is enough to break his jump shot then imo he has no shot as surviving the nba. i think its more plausible we were dealing with an outlier % based on sample size

whats more likely. guy who hit less than 30% of his 3's in college and less than 30% of his 3's in his rookie season suddenly becoming a 40+ % 3 point shooter in his sop re year despite keeping the same shooting form... but then that accuracy disappears because he plays on game off the bench and doesnt come back when he resumes starting immediately thereafter? or

subpar shooter had a hot start to the season and has come back down to earth


its absolutely true. im open to the idea of sochan getting a better jump shot. im not rooting against him improving. i dont think its impossible for him to do so. i just havent seen him do it.

And as I said before given how a PG and a PF are wildly different positions who get their shots in similarly different ways absolutely it should effect his shooting. Also there is the whole team which has been shooting like dog over that span.

You like to just completely ignore inconvenient arguments and reassert your original arguments. Ho does that work for you in court?

And the entire argument that poor shooters are unlikely to improve ignore that he has pretty famously improved his free throw shooting concurrently.

Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

And the entire argument that poor shooters are unlikely to improve ignore that he has pretty famously improved his free throw shooting concurrently.

I never said poor shooters are or aren’t likely to improve. It’s player specific. Scottie Barnes refused to shoot much like Ben Simmons his first two years and this year is hitting a high percentage on good volume. Kawhi improved his shooting drastically. Dejounte improved his midrange shooting drastically.

Sochan just looks to have the same broken shooting form he did last year when he was a poor shooter

Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

And as I said before given how a PG and a PF are wildly different positions who get their shots in similarly different ways absolutely it should effect his shooting. Also there is the whole team which has been shooting like dog over that span.

You like to just completely ignore inconvenient arguments and reassert your original arguments. Ho does that work for you in court?

can you elaborate how the shot quality from 3 is worse from playing PF than playing PG

you never even made the argument so there is nothing to refute

why does the rest of the teams shooting matter as it relates to Sochan?

Originally Posted by spurraider21

I never said poor shooters are or aren’t likely to improve. It’s player specific. Scottie Barnes refused to shoot much like Ben Simmons his first two years and this year is hitting a high percentage on good volume. Kawhi improved his shooting drastically. Dejounte improved his midrange shooting drastically.

Sochan just looks to have the same broken shooting form he did last year when he was a poor shooter

And yet performance changed in multiple respects. I am sorry for your cognitive dissonance but I would posit that you do not know as much about shooting as you think you do.

Originally Posted by spurraider21

why does the rest of the teams shooting matter as it relates to Sochan?

So whole team's performance tanks and yet you do not want to consider it. This gets to the heart of your blinders regarding inconvenient arguments.

Originally Posted by spurraider21

can you elaborate how the shot quality from 3 is worse from playing PF than playing PG

It is not worse it is different.

If you want a sense there is a lot of footage out there of Ice talking about moving from forward to guard. In a general sense, front court players get the ball in the front court whereas back court players get it in the back court. As a PG he was the primary ballhandler in general and specifically pnr sets. No instead of looking to step into hs shot he is more to be pick and pop.

There are millions of details but I think it is funny that you cannot fathom this and you are judging shot mechnics.

Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

It is not worse it is different.

If you want a sense there is a lot of footage out there of Ice talking about moving from forward to guard. In a general sense, front court players get the ball in the front court whereas back court players get it in the back court. As a PG he was the primary ballhandler in general and specifically pnr sets. No instead of looking to step into hs shot he is more to be pick and pop.

There are millions of details but I think it is funny that you cannot fathom this and you are judging shot mechnics.

do you have any data that demonstrates that sochan's 3PA have come from different areas of the court depending on what position he was starting at?

the thing is, you arent even making an argument, because you're not giving anything rebuttable or falsifiable

Originally Posted by spurraider21

you never even made the argument so there is nothing to refute

why does the rest of the teams shooting matter as it relates to Sochan?

Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

Of course you are not. You apparently predicted that his shooting motion would doom him to failure and are intent on dying on that cross.

What you are not considering is how a PG gets his shots and from where versus how a PF does it. Not to mention the issue the change must've had on things for the entire team.

Have we seen similar poor shooting performances from other players on the team?

But hey you have fun playing shot doctor from your desk.

Yes, I did secretariat. The bolded is me making the same arguments yesterday. You had the similar blinders thing going on then, secretariat.

Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

So whole team's performance tanks and yet you do not want to consider it. This gets to the heart of your blinders regarding inconvenient arguments.

"tanks"

the team is shooting 32.6% from 3 in the games since sochan was benched. they are at 34.3% for the season

Originally Posted by spurraider21

do you have any data that demonstrates that sochan's 3PA have come from different areas of the court depending on what position he was starting at?

the thing is, you arent even making an argument, because you're not giving anything rebuttable or falsifiable

using incredulity to argue against different positions PG getting his shot in different places and ways than a PF.

I am okay with resting with that, Counselor.

Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

Yes, I did secretariat. The bolded is me making the same arguments yesterday. You had the similar blinders thing going on then, secretariat.

the bolded isnt an argument. i

"how a PG gets his shots and from where versus how a PF does it"

have you demonstrated that sochan's 3PA have come in different ways or in different spots pre and post benching? until you do, you arent really making an argument.

as for the team shooting performance, i addressed that in the post above. the team's 3PT% isnt much different at all in the last 8 or so games since the benching. and to the extent that it is marginally lower, sochan's dreadful shooting accounts for a good amount of that

Originally Posted by spurraider21

the bolded isnt an argument. i

"how a PG gets his shots and from where versus how a PF does it"

have you demonstrated that sochan's 3PA have come in different ways or in different spots pre and post benching? until you do, you arent really making an argument.

as for the team shooting performance, i addressed that in the post above. the team's 3PT% isnt much different at all in the last 8 or so games since the benching. and to the extent that it is marginally lower, sochan's dreadful shooting accounts for a good amount of that

Then by your standard you are not making arguments either.

Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

using incredulity to argue against different positions PG getting his shot in different places and ways than a PF.

I am okay with resting with that, Counselor.

husband accused of murdering his wife

husband's defense: but generally speaking, husbands dont murder their wives. the defense rests

Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

Then by your standard you are not making arguments either.

sure i am. my argument is we saw a guy have a hot start to a season on a small sample size. im ok letting more time pass to see if in fact his 40+% shooting to start the season coming off consecutive years shooting sub 30% was in fact signs of a dramatic improvement or just an outlier.

Originally Posted by spurraider21

husband accused of murdering his wife

husband's defense: but generally speaking, husbands dont murder their wives. the defense rests

Prosecution: I don't believe he couldn't have not murdered his wife. Prosecution rests.

Thanks for presumption btw, couselor.

Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

Prosecution: I don't believe he couldn't have not murdered his wife. Prosecution rests.

Thanks for presumption btw, couselor.

you're right. sochan kept the same shooting form but became mcdermott overnight as long as he was listed as a PG