Charania: Spurs Have Exploratory Interest In Murray

[mo7888]

This is the catch. Spurstalk is underestimating what the Hawks will be asking back in a trade.

The Hawks aren't going to hand him back over especially to the spurs for what most in here think.

So, for the record, what do you think a fair deal for the Spurs to offer looks like?

[DAF86]

See my previous posts, but to summarize:

1. All very dependent on price of the trade, but we (assumedly) would still have plenty of future draft capital that is not dependent on Spurs performance.
2. Going for success earlier due to Wemby's readiness, and therefore attracting FA's to join DJM + Wemby (Manu was quoted early Nov in TP's intvw that it'll take min 3 years for team to compete for championships, and that FAs will come once they see the opportunity of winning). In short: why waste Wemby's readiness now waiting for 2024, 2025, and 2026 top 10 picks to be "ready" to compete 3 years after they were drafted?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for getting better as soon as possible. I just think Dejounte isn't it, much less for the price he would cost.

[baseline bum]

I just don't see Dejounte as a long term piece on a championship team. So, his value would be as a stop gap while we find our championship PG? The question then is "would you be willing to give up 2 first round pick for a stop gap?" I wouldn't. Not even a first.

I'd give up the protected Chicago pick and the Hawks could have their 27 back, maybe with like top 4 protection if the Spurs think they can squeeze the protection in. Or I'd give them Keldon and nothing else. Also I shouldn't say I don't like any of the PG in this draft. Dillingham looks awesome, but would have to luck into a top 3 pick to get him maybe. But Topic, Castle, Collier? Meh.

[Davidicus]

One other item to think about here: we have not seen the full potential of DJM paired with Wemby. That's obvious, but when you stop and think about it, Dejounte had a great final year with us (21/8/9/2) on a garbage team, and he's now spent 1.5 years with the Atlanta Hawks (the Atlanta Hawks...) playing Shooting Guard next to a crazy offensive mosquito man.

These arguments of DJM not being a championship-caliber PG are ridiculous. DJM + Wemby + Vassell isnt going to win the championship next year. But let's take last year's Denver Nuggets, and throw in KCP, Aaron Gordon, Michael Porter Jr, and Bruce Brown, + fillers as equivalents to what the Spurs could garner in 2-5 years with a DJM Wemby DV trio. That roster absolutely has championship potential.

[baseline bum]

So, for the record, what do you think a fair deal for the Spurs to offer looks like?

Dude already said Vassell plus either our 24 pick unprotected or one of the 25 picks unprotected

This is more like it. Vassell or Sochan and one unprotected pick of Spurs 24 or Hawks 25 or Spurs 25 and if Sochan then pick swap with Atlanta back also. You do the deal? The deal has to hurt a little and if it doesn't then no trade.

[DAF86]

I'd give up the protected Chicago pick and the Hawks could have their 27 back, maybe with like top 4 protection if the Spurs think they can squeeze the protection in. Or I'd give them Keldon and nothing else. Also I shouldn't say I don't like any of the PG in this draft. Dillingham looks awesome, but would have to luck into a top 3 pick to get him maybe. But Topic, Castle, Collier? Meh.

Another thing to consider, is that trading for Murrays will be more expensive for the Spurs than for any other franchise in the NBA. Do you imagine the bullying the Hawks front office would get if they trade Dejounte back to the Spurs for an average player and a protected first round pick after giving up 4 (or however they were, I don't even remember now) unprotected picks?

I don't even know why we are talking about it, it will never happen. The Hawks will stay the away from the Spurs, tbh.

[mo7888]

Dude already said Vassell plus either our 24 pick unprotected or one of the 25 picks unprotected

Hmmmm.... ok i hadn't seen that (or don't remember it)..... nobody else is going to offer that rich of a package..

[rascal]

So, for the record, what do you think a fair deal for the Spurs to offer looks like?

I said earlier what Atlanta would probably want and what it would cost the Spurs to make the trade attractive enough to Atlanta.

[itzsoweezee]

People are really overrating Vassell if they think the addition of Murray is good enough to get the Spurs to contention.

They need to keep building through the draft and use all those assets they’ve stockpiled to trade for the next disgruntled star when the opportunity strikes.

[DAF86]

One other item to think about here: we have not seen the full potential of DJM paired with Wemby. That's obvious, but when you stop and think about it, Dejounte had a great final year with us (21/8/9/2) on a garbage team, and he's now spent 1.5 years with the Atlanta Hawks (the Atlanta Hawks...) playing Shooting Guard next to a crazy offensive mosquito man.

These arguments of DJM not being a championship-caliber PG are ridiculous. DJM + Wemby + Vassell isnt going to win the championship next year. But let's take last year's Denver Nuggets, and throw in KCP, Aaron Gordon, Michael Porter Jr, and Bruce Brown, + fillers as equivalents to what the Spurs could garner in 2-5 years with a DJM Wemby DV trio. That roster absolutely has championship potential.

The problem is that this Murray is Dejounte, not Jamal. Not even in the same stratosphere as offensive players (and please folks, don't come with PPG and FG% to try and sell the idea they are close. Let's save everybody's time, tbh).

[baseline bum]

Another thing to consider, is that trading for Murrays will be more expensive for the Spurs than for any other franchise in the NBA. Do you imagine the bullying the Hawks front office would get if they trade Dejounte back to the Spurs for an average player and a protected first round pick after giving up 4 (or however they were, I don't even remember now) unprotected picks?

I don't even know why we are talking about it, it will never happen. The Hawks will stay the away from the Spurs, tbh.

If the Hawks look at it that way and trade Murray for Grimes and a couple of Knicks firsts either years from now or low in the draft (their own, the pick Dallas owes them this year, or the pick Milwaukee owes them next year) I'd die laughing since that would make the 25, 26, and 27 picks amazing.

[J_Paco]

I just don't see Dejounte as a long term piece on a championship team. So I guess his relative value would be as a stop-gap while we find our championship PG. The question then becomes: "would you be willing to give up 2 first round picks for a stop-gap?" I wouldn't. Not even a first.

The crazy part is we already have a combo guard with a similar size & skillset to Murray, who also is just as raw & unrefined as him coming out of college.

Yet, that kid hasn't 'shown enough' to merit them pining over him and for Pop to unglue him from the bench.

[rascal]

Hmmmm.... ok i hadn't seen that (or don't remember it)..... nobody else is going to offer that rich of a package..

The Spurs are going to have to far outdo any other offers. I don't see it happening. The Spurs are not going to trade any of their unprotected picks. They are holding those as the keys for their rebuild.

[BacktoBasics]

Trading Vassell for Murray should be a non starter for anyone with a brain. You can overpay to a certain degree but moving a core player that would highly benefit from the trade is a bad idea.

[Davidicus]

I think KJ + 2024 Spurs or Raptors 1st + 2025 Spurs or Chicago 1st could do it. But I honestly don't know, and don't believe 95% of this forum knows. Feels like more teams are getting into the mix by the day. We could use timvp right now.

I am in the camp that trading Keldon + keeping one of our 1sts this year is a great move in order to draft another Forward this year vs PG iffiness.

[Davidicus]

The problem is that this Murray is Dejounte, not Jamal. Not even in the same stratosphere as offensive players (and please folks, don't come with PPG and FG% to try and sell the idea they are close. Let's save everybody's time, tbh).

I get where you're coming from, I just dont feel it needs to look that way all the time. Take the 2021 championship Bucks: Giannis, Middleton, and Jrue Holiday at PG. Jrue was 30yo, averaged 18pts / 4.5rbd / 6ast / 1.5stl. Dejounte could do that for sure.

[rascal]

Hawks are thinking we over paid to get him now you're going to over pay if you want him back.

[baseline bum]

I think KJ + 2024 Spurs or Raptors 1st + 2025 Spurs or Chicago 1st could do it. But I honestly don't know, and don't believe 95% of this forum knows. Feels like more teams are getting into the mix by the day. We could use timvp right now.

I am in the camp that trading Keldon + keeping one of our 1sts this year is a great move in order to draft another Forward this year vs PG iffiness.

Huge overpay, Murray is nowhere close to worth the 24 pick right now or the 25 pick. Maybe after the lottery if the Spurs are picking fifth or sixth and Risacher and Dillingham are off the board then the 24 pick could be worth moving for Dejounte, but no way when it has a chance of being one of those two or Sarr.

[baseline bum]

Hawks are thinking we over paid to get him now you're going to over pay if you want him back.

Works out fine then, they'll get crap back from the Knicks or Lakers and more lotto balls to the Spurs for Cooper Flagg and Cameron Boozer.

[scott]

Most entertaining thread in awhile tbh. A few thoughts:

1. I can’t believe it took until Page 14 for someone to bring up MUH CAP SPACE. Crofl.

2. When did it become canon that DJM requested a trade? That has not been in any of the accounts, and in fact I thought the story was more along the lines that Murray was surprised and hurt when he became the subject of trade rumors and then eventually traded

3. There is a valid question of whether DJM elevates a team. While, how about this: The Spurs were a play-in team with DJM, and then became one of the worst teams in the league (and got the #1 pick) without him. The roster didn’t change much between DJM’s last year and the season after with the exception of DJM leaving. Jak was traded at the deadline when the Spurs were already a bottom team.

4. I don’t think anyone suggested the Spurs are making this trade for DJM to be our 2nd best player. I believe the goal would be for him to be our fourth best player behind Wemby, Vassell, and whoever you can find with a top draft pick.

5. The Spurs have ample draft capital to make a move for DJM and still add some high profile young players. Ideally, you can get him for a further out pick and not impact the two (expected-to-be) high picks in 24 and 25. Adding DJM should not stop you from adding a talented wing prospect or even one of these young PG prospects who will need 3 years to develop anyway.

6. DJM fits the timeline just fine. It’s not like he is Mike Conley (who hey, I’d love on a 1 or 2 year deal). As covered in this thread, there will be several evolutions of the team around Wemby in his career. DJM can be an important part of Phase I, and that can last for the next 3-6 years and DJM can fit in that just fine.

7. If you think DJM sucks, okay fine, then your opinion has been heard.

[Davidicus]

Most entertaining thread in awhile tbh. A few thoughts:

1. I can’t believe it took until Page 14 for someone to bring up MUH CAP SPACE. Crofl.

2. When did it become canon that DJM requested a trade? That has not been in any of the accounts, and in fact I thought the story was more along the lines that Murray was surprised and hurt when he became the subject of trade rumors and then eventually traded

3. There is a valid question of whether DJM elevates a team. While, how about this: The Spurs were a play-in team without DJM, and then became one of the worst teams in the league (and got the #1 pick) without him. The roster didn’t change much between DJM’s last year and the season after with the exception of DJM leaving. Jak was traded at the deadline when the Spurs were already a bottom team.

4. I don’t think anyone suggested the Spurs are making this trade for DJM to be our 2nd best player. I believe the goal would be for him to be our fourth best player behind Wemby, Vassell, and whoever you can find with a top draft pick.

5. The Spurs have ample draft capital to make a move for DJM and still add some high profile young players. Ideally, you can get him for a further out pick and not impact the two (expected-to-be) high picks in 24 and 25. Adding DJM should not stop you from adding a talented wing prospect or even one of these young PG prospects who will need 3 years to develop anyway.

6. DJM fits the timeline just fine. It’s not like he is Mike Conley (who hey, I’d love on a 1 or 2 year deal). As covered in this thread, there will be several evolutions of the team around Wemby in his career. DJM can be an important part of Phase I, and that can last for the next 3-6 years and DJM can fit in that just fine.

7. If you think DJM sucks, okay fine, then your opinion has been heard.

thank you

[scott]

Hawks are thinking we over paid to get him now you're going to over pay if you want him back.

Then we simply say no and the Hawks can try to do better somewhere else. It’s not that complicated. But DJM is now older, more expensive (but still on a good contract) and has a lower PER, WS, BPM, VORP and DRTG than when he left San Antonio. Maybe teams will ignore that, but I think most will see that

1. ATL overpaid for him to start with
2. He is less valuable a player than two years ago
3. The Hawks are in a negative leverage situation

I do agree the Spurs will have to pay more than other teams if they want him back, but nowhere near the hypothetical value that you are coming up with - which is close to what Atlanta paid.

Maybe I’m wrong, we’ll see. Or maybe Atlanta keeps him.

[baseline bum]

Then we simply say no and the Hawks can try to do better somewhere else. It’s not that complicated. But DJM is now older, more expensive (but still on a good contract) and has a lower PER, WS, BPM, VORP and DRTG than when he left San Antonio. Maybe teams will ignore that, but I think most will see that

1. ATL overpaid for him to start with
2. He is less valuable a player than two years ago
3. The Hawks are in a negative leverage situation

I do agree the Spurs will have to pay more than other teams if they want him back, but nowhere near the hypothetical value that you are coming up with - which is close to what Atlanta paid.

Maybe I’m wrong, we’ll see. Or maybe Atlanta keeps him.

Yeah the 24, 25, 26 picks are the kind you'd move for someone like Lillard, not ing Dejounte Murray.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

He'd easily be the best guard and arguably wing on the team

[spurraider21]

The problem is that this Murray is Dejounte, not Jamal. Not even in the same stratosphere as offensive players (and please folks, don't come with PPG and FG% to try and sell the idea they are close. Let's save everybody's time, tbh).

You’re right. One Murray is an all star and the other isn’t