Fischer: Spurs Repeatedly Mentioned By NBA Figures As Potential Home For Young

[LeBowen]

Wemby is missing PPG mainly due to his inefficiency; jacking up shots early in the shot clock and trying to dribble in traffic with his high handle aren't doing himself any favors.

True.

It's also been said ad nauseum but Wemby isn't actually open all the time when he calls for the ball; he needs to learn to pick his spots better tbh.

There are situations where he's demanding the ball for no reason, but he's most definitely open a lot of the time, but noone on our team can throw those passes.

Normally I'd say there would be improvement going into next season but the Olympics will take away from his offseason development pretty significantly imo.

I'd rather have him compete in a real tournament and win some games.

Call the usage argument casual all you want but if the Spurs get Young Wemby won't get the same touches he's gotten this year if only for the fact he'll be sharing the court with a player used to similar touches while playing with another ball-dominant player in DJM.

Sharing the offensive load between a guard and a big is way different from sharing it between two guards.

Call me crazy but I don't think Wemby eclipses 30 mpg next season either tbh; i dont think he'll develop the proper conditioning until he gets a full offseason to truly hone himself.

I think he's going to be in 30-33mpg range.

[mo7888]

No, the hawks wouldn’t be hard taking, but assuming they would get better by trading Trae would be even more wishful thinking on their part.

If that organization acts rationally at all, it will either (1) not trade Trae to anyone or (2) trade Trae to the spurs. Trading to the lakers or another team will absolutely blow up in atlanta’s face. And San Antonio, if it is acting rationally, should not throw everything it has in the offer for Trae (quite the contrary). The spurs have all the leverage here.

100%

[mo7888]

Pelicans: McCollum, Herb Jones, Daniels/Hawkins + unprotected Lakers pick, unprotected Milwaukee 27', 1-4 protected Pelicans pick in whatever year
OKC: Giddey, Wallace, huge TE (they're under the cap) + however many picks you want to add
Orlando: Suggs, Black, TE + Den '25(1-6 protected), Orl 26', 28', 30' (1-4)
Wolves: KAT
Lakers: Reaves, Hachimura, Russell + Lakers 24' or 25', 29', 31'
Rockets: Vanvleet, Green, Whitmore + Nets 24', Nets 26', Nets swaps in 25', 27'
Jazz: Sexton, George, TE + Cle 25', Min 25', Cle 27', Min 27'

Nets could also throw a ton of picks at them, but in the case of trading Young to a team that isn't SA they're more likely to value getting promising players as well, not just picks.

Young is a good player, despite his flaws, and there would definitely be a bidding war for him. Sure, Spurs can probably outbid everyone due to owning Atlanta's own picks, but he won't come cheap at all, both in terms of value SA would have to send and also salary-wise when they extend him.

I'd be very happy with those outcomes (and not because I don't value Trae) because they all make Atlanta worse on the court next year.

[CGD]

^ say nothing of the pressure on ATL that will likely start coming from Trae’s camp. That will only bolster the Spurs’ leverage, in fact, if I’m the Spurs I’m letting that part of the dynamic ripen some more (the visuals from this All-star game should help).

[scott]

No, the hawks wouldn’t be hard taking, but assuming they would get better by trading Trae would be even more wishful thinking on their part.

If that organization acts rationally at all, it will either (1) not trade Trae to anyone or (2) trade Trae to the spurs. Trading to the lakers or another team will absolutely blow up in atlanta’s face. And San Antonio, if it is acting rationally, should not throw everything it has in the offer for Trae (quite the contrary). The spurs have all the leverage here.

Yes, that’s my point. People who think the Hawks are going to trade Trae to another team and get appreciably worse so that their picks that we own become literal golden tickets are wishful thinking. The Hawks haven’t forgotten that we own their draft for the next 3 years. So like, you said, it really limits their range of moves if they are acting rationally.

There, however, is a third option beyond the two you laid out, and it is (3) the Hawks trade Trae in a deal they perceive makes them better, not worse. Something like a KAT swap for Trae would satisfy this. Whether that actually would make the Hawks better or worse would be yet to be seen.

I actually think there probably a few teams who could potentially satisfy this, but the options are limited and as you say, they do give the Spurs more leverage (though not enough to mean the Spurs are just going to play hardball and get Trae on some low-ball offer).

[CGD]

^ valid point on going the other direction, but I struggle to see the teams for them to deal with, perhaps outside of the Clip in a deal involving Paul George. Things there would have to really go sideways, and I don’t buy George’s lack of extension so far an indication that it is. And while KAT could work for ATL, Trae does not fit next to Ant in MIN.

[scott]

I generally agree, CGD, I don’t think there are a lot of “win-win” deals out there for Trae, but I imagine there are a couple (and I wouldn’t know what those are… a lot of times these trades catch us off guard until they happen, right?) and that’s all it takes to mean the Spurs would have to compile a truly compe ive offer.

Like I said earlier, if the Spurs really want Trae, they’re going to have to put together a real offer and I don’t see any way that it doesn’t involve ATL25. We can all weigh in on whether or not we’d do that, but at the end of the day our votes don’t count.

[LeBowen]

I generally agree, CGD, I don’t think there are a lot of “win-win” deals out there for Trae, but I imagine there are a couple (and I wouldn’t know what those are… a lot of times these trades catch us off guard until they happen, right?) and that’s all it takes to mean the Spurs would have to compile a truly compe ive offer.

Jazz, Magic, Nets are the teams I can see going for Trae.
I don't think he'd be happy to go to Jazz or Nets because those teams still wouldn't be good enough to contend.
Magic is on the right track and Trae would be a great fit there. But I suspect Hawks would prefer to trade him to a team that's at least not in the same division.
Idk about Rockets and Pelicans, they're still undefined roster wise.
Lakers will obviously do their thing, but their assets are laughable.

Like I said earlier, if the Spurs really want Trae, they’re going to have to put together a real offer and I don’t see any way that it doesn’t involve ATL25. We can all weigh in on whether or not we’d do that, but at the end of the day our votes don’t count.

Yeah, feels like we're going in circles at this point and that we went over everything many times over.
Hawks would surely value getting those three picks back more than getting five mediocre first rounders from another team.

And as already said, those Hawks won't be in top5 if they're not back with the Hawks. No chance.
Giving them their picks back with Keldon+Collins is a fair deal. Maybe even another FRP, just not Spurs' own.
Throw in Branham and any other scrub if they're willing to take a flyer.

The more I read about people not wanting Trae, the more I want the Spurs trade for him.
There are obviously valid questions about if he would accept not being the franchise player or if he'd work on his off-ball game, but he's as good of a pairing for Wemby as it gets, if we talk realistic targets.

Draft well this year, get Trae and a couple more veterans and get out of the lottery already. This will be fifth straight lottery draft, we're not the ing Pistons or Hornets, ffs.
Not yet at least, but will become if we keep liking what we have.

[BatManu20]

[BacktoBasics]

Yes, that’s my point. People who think the Hawks are going to trade Trae to another team and get appreciably worse so that their picks that we own become literal golden tickets are wishful thinking. The Hawks haven’t forgotten that we own their draft for the next 3 years. So like, you said, it really limits their range of moves if they are acting rationally.

There, however, is a third option beyond the two you laid out, and it is (3) the Hawks trade Trae in a deal they perceive makes them better, not worse. Something like a KAT swap for Trae would satisfy this. Whether that actually would make the Hawks better or worse would be yet to be seen.

I actually think there probably a few teams who could potentially satisfy this, but the options are limited and as you say, they do give the Spurs more leverage (though not enough to mean the Spurs are just going to play hardball and get Trae on some low-ball offer).

The KAT trade was the most logical move prior to the season but if they play as good as they’re playing in the post season I don’t think Minny will be particularly motivated to make a move.

[scott]

[JPB]

Next: Trae gets french nationality, to play with Wemby in Paris Olympics.

[lefty]

Better than Porker

[aissagholi7981]

We're getting Trae and it is going to be phenomenal.

Trae/Jones/Wesley
Vassell/Holiday (He will sign with us after BOS doesn't win the ring this year)/Wesley
Risacher/Johnson IF not traded. If traded, insert random VET
Sohan/Barlow
Wemby/Collins

Add in a few VETS that want to come in and play
One thing we're not mentioning is how much better Vassell will be. All the attention on Wemby/Trae, Vassell will have the easiest time of his life. We're not going to make 5 trades, we never do so lets be realistic. Go get Trae, draft the future SF and add a few small pieces here and there. That lineup can play against anyone. Who are we affraid of, the Wolves? OKC is the only team I'd be worried about.

GO GET TRAE!!!

[mo7888]

Yes, that’s my point. People who think the Hawks are going to trade Trae to another team and get appreciably worse so that their picks that we own become literal golden tickets are wishful thinking. The Hawks haven’t forgotten that we own their draft for the next 3 years. So like, you said, it really limits their range of moves if they are acting rationally.

There, however, is a third option beyond the two you laid out, and it is (3) the Hawks trade Trae in a deal they perceive makes them better, not worse. Something like a KAT swap for Trae would satisfy this. Whether that actually would make the Hawks better or worse would be yet to be seen.

I actually think there probably a few teams who could potentially satisfy this, but the options are limited and as you say, they do give the Spurs more leverage (though not enough to mean the Spurs are just going to play hardball and get Trae on some low-ball offer).

Is anybody really throwing out low ball offers for Trae on here? Ive seen one, other than that they're not really low ball...

[TD 21]

I'll guess the following won't have serious or any interest . . .

Timberwolves: The Towns rumors are tax related and I doubt they'll want or Edwards will be amendable to turning back into more of a secondary ball handler.
Pelicans: Looming tax issues and poor fit with Williamson/Ingram (unless one would be the bait?).
Thunder: They have a better primary creator, an ideal secondary one and no defensive liabilities among their core. They need a combo forward/big in place of Giddey more.
Jazz: Probably don't want to hurt own draft odds in '25 and '26 or recreate facsimile of previous era; plus I doubt Young would be amendable to it.

Teams thought to potentially have interest besides Lakers and Spurs . . .

Nets: If Mitc is dead set on New York, they're probably in pole position. If not, they could be prime suitors with a Simmons (expiring), Thomas + quality draft capital package.
Magic: Not a great fit with Banchero and Wagner and I doubt they'd include Suggs, who'd be even more important in this scenario; plus their draft capital is middling. Targeting someone like Simons makes more sense.

[scott]

Is anybody really throwing out low ball offers for Trae on here? Ive seen one, other than that they're not really low ball...

I’ve seen a few, but I’d also say that any package that does not include ATL25 can possibly be considered a low-ball offer. I’d love to keep this pick as much as the next person (by, perhaps offering the lower of ATL25 or SA25), but I just don’t see that being realistic for the reasons previously outlined.

I continue to believe the Mitc trade is a good outline for what “market value” is. On paper, the two players are similar in terms of where Young is now compared to where Mitc was at the time of the trade. As I’ve stated, I’d rank Mitc slightly ahead, and I think there is an easily digestible argument that the Cavs overpaid, so those can be taken into account as well.

[exstatic]

I’ve seen a few, but I’d also say that any package that does not include ATL25 can possibly be considered a low-ball offer. I’d love to keep this pick as much as the next person (by, perhaps offering the lower of ATL25 or SA25), but I just don’t see that being realistic for the reasons previously outlined.

I continue to believe the Mitc trade is a good outline for what “market value” is. On paper, the two players are similar in terms of where Young is now compared to where Mitc was at the time of the trade. As I’ve stated, I’d rank Mitc slightly ahead, and I think there is an easily digestible argument that the Cavs overpaid, so those can be taken into account as well.

I think you also have to consider the pick landscape. There just aren’t very many teams that can put together monster packages, simply because of all the past monster packages. There’s like 4-5 teams that pretty much own the picks for the next 4 drafts.

[scott]

I think you also have to consider the pick landscape. There just aren’t very many teams that can put together monster packages, simply because of all the past monster packages. There’s like 4-5 teams that pretty much own the picks for the next 4 drafts.

Of course, but unless Trae asks for a trade, Atlanta’s default position is to keep him unless the receive a fair offer. Atlanta is not compelled to move him.

[mo7888]

I’ve seen a few, but I’d also say that any package that does not include ATL25 can possibly be considered a low-ball offer. I’d love to keep this pick as much as the next person (by, perhaps offering the lower of ATL25 or SA25), but I just don’t see that being realistic for the reasons previously outlined.

I continue to believe the Mitc trade is a good outline for what “market value” is. On paper, the two players are similar in terms of where Young is now compared to where Mitc was at the time of the trade. As I’ve stated, I’d rank Mitc slightly ahead, and I think there is an easily digestible argument that the Cavs overpaid, so those can be taken into account as well.

I don't think it'll be necessary to include their 25 pick, but I also would rather let them trade Trae elsewhere for a lesser offer than part with it.

[Dverde]

If Trae comes to SA and helps them win a championship, Spurs need to retire Dejounte’s jersey. Key contributor for Spurs getting Wemby and Trae.

[Ariel]

Looking at recent All-Stars on the move (noting, not all of these are created equal):

• Durant to Suns: 4 unprotected FRPs, one swap, one borderline all-star, and one very good young player. This is the highest end of the market, Trae does not warrant a deal like this. It is, however, worth mentioning that this trade was also precipitated by Durant asking for a trade
• Kyrie to Mavs: another case where the player asked for a trade. Nets got two good role players, one FRP and 2 SRPs. This is on the low end of the market, but Kyrie is a special character.
• Harden to 76ers: another case where player asked for a trade. Nets got a former all-star who it wasn't totally quite clear at the time was completely broken (who also asked for a trade - Simmons), two role players, and two FRPs.
• Vuvevic to Bulls: Magic got a good young prspect and two FRPs
• DJM to Hawks: Spurs got 2 unprotected FRPs, a pick swap, and a highly protected FRP
• Russ to Houston: OKC got an all-star PG back (CP3), 1 unprotected FRP, 2 top-4 protected FRPs, two swaps.
• Gobert to Minny: Utah got: role players, draft rights to Kessler, 4 FRPs, one swap
• Mitc to Cavs: Utah gets a good young player who had not quite shown his full potential (Lauri), a 23-yo guard who had multiple 20+ppg seasons already, 3 FRPs, 2 swaps
• Lillard to Bucks: Perhaps the ultimate case of zero leverage by the trading team, Blazers only get an overpriced youngish C, 1 FRP, two Swaps

To me, Mitc might be the most illustrative trade. At the time he was moved, he was 25, a 3-time all star, but no all-NBA teams. His WS/48 ranged between 0.92-.167, and his BPM had been 4.3 for two consecutive seasons.

At the point Trae will prospectively be traded, he's 25, a 3-time all star, an All-NBA 3rd team under his belt. His WS/48 has ranged between 0.062 (rookie year) and 0.181 (though always > 0.1 since his rookie year) and his BPM has been higher (5.2) than Mitc 's peak but his last few years have not been as good as Mitc 's last two years in Utah (3.3 and 2.7).

Trae and Mitc are similar on paper, I'd rate Mitc as a better prospect than Trae at the time he was traded, but not by much. We don't have a Lauri or Sexton to send to Atlanta (outside of Vassell, who I think we all agree we'd like to keep), so that will have to be made up in draft capital.

I'd say a "fair" trade (keeping in mind the assumptions above) would be something like ATL '25 + ATL '27 + TOR '24 + CHA '24 + Keldon + Branham. I would definitely like to keep TOR '24 if I could... maybe ATL '26 Swap can go there instead. This is a lower price than what CLE paid for Mitc , IMO.

Now, if Trae asks out... that definitely changes things. And I bet there would be a few teams who would scramble some offers together. If you just take TOR '24 out of the deal above, I really like it and I'd do it, personally. Not sure if that is enough. If I am ATL, I am asking for BETTER OF ATL/SA '25.

Of those trades, the Donovan Mitc in indeed the closest, but it should be noted that those picks at the time of the trade had significantly less value than the ones being talked about here, as did the Minnesota picks Utah got in return for Gobert.

A very interesting case, which you haven't listed, was that of Kevin Love, who was traded from Minnesota to Cleveland in 2014 after years where the team underachieved. At the time he was a 25 y.o. who averaged 26.1 PPG 12.5 RPG 4.4 APG shooting 37.6% from 3, with 3 all star appearances and 2 All NBA 2nd teams. I'd say he was more accomplished and had less question marks than Trae, though only 1 year left on his deal as opposed to Trae who has 2.

What did Minnesota get for him? the #1 pick in a draft that was at least as underwhelming as this (Wiggins went #1), a recent draft bust in Anthony Bennet who posted 4.2 PPG on 35.6 FG%, and a role player in Thaddeus Young. This would be comparable to the Spurs trading the #1 pick in this year's draft (should they land it), Malaki Branham (recent draft pick that underwhelmed so far), Keldon Johnson and Tre Jones (youngish vets that are good rotation pieces).

Another thing to consider is the opportunity cost, which would be represented by the potential deals missed by trading for Trae, like signing one of Donovan Mitc , Derrick White or Donovan Mitc in July '25 without giving up a single asset (or less than they'd have to right now, if they do a S&T).

All in all, I'm not against signing Young if the price is low, but I would 100% be against overpaying for him when he's IMO not a top 20 player in the league (more like 25-30)

[scott]

Of those trades, the Donovan Mitc in indeed the closest, but it should be noted that those picks at the time of the trade had significantly less value than the ones being talked about here, as did the Minnesota picks Utah got in return for Gobert.

A very interesting case, which you haven't listed, was that of Kevin Love, who was traded from Minnesota to Cleveland in 2014 after years where the team underachieved. At the time he was a 25 y.o. who averaged 26.1 PPG 12.5 RPG 4.4 APG shooting 37.6% from 3, with 3 all star appearances and 2 All NBA 2nd teams. I'd say he was more accomplished and had less question marks than Trae, though only 1 year left on his deal as opposed to Trae who has 2.

What did Minnesota get for him? the #1 pick in a draft that was at least as underwhelming as this (Wiggins went #1), a recent draft bust in Anthony Bennet who posted 4.2 PPG on 35.6 FG%, and a role player in Thaddeus Young. This would be comparable to the Spurs trading the #1 pick in this year's draft (should they land it), Malaki Branham (recent draft pick that underwhelmed so far), Keldon Johnson and Tre Jones (youngish vets that are good rotation pieces).

Another thing to consider is the opportunity cost, which would be represented by the potential deals missed by trading for Trae, like signing one of Donovan Mitc , Derrick White or Donovan Mitc in July '25 without giving up a single asset (or less than they'd have to right now, if they do a S&T).

All in all, I'm not against signing Young if the price is low, but I would 100% be against overpaying for him when he's IMO not a top 20 player in the league (more like 25-30)

All good thoughts, none of which I necessarily disagree with, other than to say I don't think we should put any eggs into the basket of setting ourselves up for future FA signings. I just don't count on any premier players actually making it to FA. Unless I misunderstand the CBA (which is very much possible), I think Mitc is eligible for a SuperMax extension this off-season if he makes an All-NBA team this year (I honestly have no idea how feasible this is, but he is an all-star putting up slightly better counting stats than last year when he was second team... you tell me). If he decided to go the FA route, as opposed to the extend-and-trade route, forcing his way to NY, then he will leave a lot of money on the table.

(I'd honestly love someone who understand this stuff better than I to tell me if Trae is actually eligible for a DPE this off-season, as well as Mitc ).

Agree on the opportunity cost, but only really insofar as it pertains to the ability to make other trades. I'm not counting on being able to make a big FA acquisition for the reasons stated AND because our track record outside of LMA doesn't exactly lend credibility to that option.

The Kevin Love example is a good one to look at, but that was also an era where stars weren't being traded for bundles of picks like they are today.

[scott]

If Trae comes to SA and helps them win a championship, Spurs need to retire Dejounte’s jersey. Key contributor for Spurs getting Wemby and Trae.

Who in the summer of 2022 says no to DJM + CHI'25 + TOR'24 in exchange for Wemby + Trae?

[CGD]

Who in the summer of 2022 says no to DJM + CHI'25 + TOR'24 in exchange for Wemby + Trae?

Well if they end up including Keldon to help match salaries, it’s pretty much Leonard/DJ for Wemby/Trae… though I’m still hoping they keep some of the ATL assets :-)

I still do that trade tho