Fischer: Spurs Repeatedly Mentioned By NBA Figures As Potential Home For Young

[Kevin]

It's also about making the next move. It's hawks want vassell, it's about finding the next 3&D

The Hawks can have Dev if they want him. Young and Dev are a bad fit on defense since they both suck on that end and Dev cant play SF. Dev and DJM mesh better together since Murrary is still a decent defender.

A Young/Dev/Keldon lineup has me running for cover on defense.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

you clearly haven't watched the Hawks. Young is far from being the main problem on the defensive end for that team. He plays with 3 starters who are worse than him on defense. He's first in TO created in crunch time in the NBA. He's 11th in steals per game. He's one of the best at drawing charges and the Hawks don't bench him when they need stops. This ain't Malaki Branham we are talking about.

Just because he isn't the main problem, doesn't mean that he's still not a problem. And even though I have little love for defensive statistics (including the ones you cited), he's still got the worst defensive box score plus/minus of any of their rotation players. There's a lot of turd polishing here for a guy who is never going to be an even league average defender. He's too small, too weak, and too slow. He would be a fun sixth man instant offense guy off the bench, but you are in for a world of hurt if you're relying on him to do anything but have the world's most punchable face while dominating the ball and getting mercilessly hunted in the playoffs.

Outside of one great series against a flawed Knicks team and being in the building while Ben Simmons and the Sixers imploded, this guy has done nothing but lose. He's the ultimate empty calories guy that this front office should avoid like the plague. Not to mention the off the court stuff... bad teammate, bad dude, just about the anti-Spur in every way.

[LeBowen]

The Hawks can have Dev if they want him. Young and Dev are a bad fit on defense since they both suck on that end and Dev cant play SF. Dev and DJM mesh better together since Murrary is still a decent defender.

A Young/Dev/Keldon lineup has me running for cover on defense.

If they see both Devin as Keldon as positive assets and players they'd like to have, I'd do Devin+Keldon+Collins for Trae+Capela.
Would give them back one of their picks and a swap, with Spurs keeping the other one.

I don't see there's a place for Devin on the roster if Spurs want Trae.
Spending more than 70 million on your backcourt when neither of them is a good defender and only one is star level isn't something you want to do in the modern NBA.

In general, I don't think Devin should be a long-term piece if he doesn't develop into a legit second scoring option. Not worth it with his new contract.
You can't earn 30 milliion and go missing in half the games.
(I'm not saying he won't or can't develop, I'm just saying if he doesn't.)

[SpursBills]

Just because he isn't the main problem, doesn't mean that he's still not a problem. And even though I have little love for defensive statistics (including the ones you cited), he's still got the worst defensive box score plus/minus of any of their rotation players. There's a lot of turd polishing here for a guy who is never going to be an even league average defender. He's too small, too weak, and too slow. He would be a fun sixth man instant offense guy off the bench, but you are in for a world of hurt if you're relying on him to do anything but have the world's most punchable face while dominating the ball and getting mercilessly hunted in the playoffs.

Outside of one great series against a flawed Knicks team and being in the building while Ben Simmons and the Sixers imploded, this guy has done nothing but lose. He's the ultimate empty calories guy that this front office should avoid like the plague. Not to mention the off the court stuff... bad teammate, bad dude, just about the anti-Spur in every way.

I’m more of a moderate in this debate but just wondering if you’d be against a trade if instead of Trae young the spurs had the opportunity to get Haliburton, maxey, fox, prime dame, or Brunson. Seems like the only engines that can’t be hunted are SGA who’s an mvp candidate and Luka whose defense is bad but is large. Or would you rather get a 2 way guard who can’t drive efficient offense and try and get a playmaking wing, and if thats the case, how would you propose the spurs obtain one?

[LeBowen]

Just because he isn't the main problem, doesn't mean that he's still not a problem. And even though I have little love for defensive statistics (including the ones you cited), he's still got the worst defensive box score plus/minus of any of their rotation players. There's a lot of turd polishing here for a guy who is never going to be an even league average defender. He's too small, too weak, and too slow. He would be a fun sixth man instant offense guy off the bench, but you are in for a world of hurt if you're relying on him to do anything but have the world's most punchable face while dominating the ball and getting mercilessly hunted in the playoffs.

Outside of one great series against a flawed Knicks team and being in the building while Ben Simmons and the Sixers imploded, this guy has done nothing but lose. He's the ultimate empty calories guy that this front office should avoid like the plague. Not to mention the off the court stuff... bad teammate, bad dude, just about the anti-Spur in every way.

People like you are impossible to discuss with.
Concerns about his fit and defense are fair, but when you start talking about punchable face and ridiculous stuff like bad teammate and dude I can't take your post seriously.

Was Parker a good dude and teammate?
Was Bowen an epitome of sportsmanship?
Was Kawhi a true Spur?

Stop with the nonsense, Timmy isn't walking back through that door.

[LeBowen]

I’m more of a moderate in this debate but just wondering if you’d be against a trade if instead of Trae young the spurs had the opportunity to get Haliburton, maxey, fox, prime dame, or Brunson. Seems like the only engines that can’t be hunted are SGA who’s an mvp candidate and Luka whose defense is bad but is large. Or would you rather get a 2 way guard who can’t drive efficient offense and try and get a playmaking wing, and if thats the case, how would you propose the spurs obtain one?

We went over it many times.
All across the league, the only all-star or potentially all-star level point guards that could become available in realistic scenarios are Trae and Garland.
Noone else will be available. And as you said, most of them are really bad defenders. As were most other star playmakers over the past decades.
The only hope of getting a good defensive point guard is Celtics having another meltdown and Derrick becoming available because he won't be able to pay him again.
Other than that, if Spurs want a two-way guard, they better find someone in the draft.

You can afford your star players to be subpar defenders, but role players, especially starters can't.
Right now, outside of Wemby there's not a single consistently good defender on the roster.
Jeremy can get there, maybe Devin, but others are just garbage and need to go even if we get the next Gary Payton at point.

[SpursBills]

We went over it many times.
All across the league, the only all-star or potentially all-star level point guards that could become available in realistic scenarios are Trae and Garland.
Noone else will be available. And as you said, most of them are really bad defenders. As were most other star playmakers over the past decades.
The only hope of getting a good defensive point guard is Celtics having another meltdown and Derrick becoming available because he won't be able to pay him again.
Other than that, if Spurs want a two-way guard, they better find someone in the draft.

You can afford your star players to be subpar defenders, but role players, especially starters can't.
Right now, outside of Wemby there's not a single consistently good defender on the roster.
Jeremy can get there, maybe Devin, but others are just garbage and need to go even if we get the next Gary Payton at point.

Yes I know, I was just taking issue with the ‘bad defender’ argument by pointing out that if you want a driver of efficient offense, you almost always have to sacrifice defense

[scott]

Did we ever get resolution on whether Trae is extension eligible this summer? Chinook originally raised this, but my reading of the DPE rules suggest that he is not.

[manufan10]

[vy65]

Did we ever get resolution on whether Trae is extension eligible this summer? Chinook originally raised this, but my reading of the DPE rules suggest that he is not.

Could be way, way off, but he had an extension kick in last year, and doesn't have an early termination option until the '26-'27 season, so I don't see how he could be eligible when he still has at least 2 years left on his contract.

[objective]

While I don't want to see Vassell moved to ATL in a deal, I do think it would grease things more than other players because Vassell is from Georgia and would be considered a 'local' as far as PR

Vassell is worth picks on his own so the total deal shouldn't have too many picks from SA's side

[scott]

I might be overrating Vassell here, but I think Vassell + ATL’25 + CHI’25 is a fair deal (mind you, I still hold that ATL’25 is a non-negotiable piece of the equation). I’m not sure how much I care for this though… it creates a massive hole to fill.

[Joseph Kony]

I might be overrating Vassell here, but I think Vassell + ATL’25 + CHI’25 is a fair deal (mind you, I still hold that ATL’25 is a non-negotiable piece of the equation). I’m not sure how much I care for this though… it creates a massive hole to fill.

i'm pretty confident the Spurs can find someone out there to replace Vassell's 18ppg on average offensive efficiency and mediocre defense fairly easily

[Kevin]

I might be overrating Vassell here, but I think Vassell + ATL’25 + CHI’25 is a fair deal (mind you, I still hold that ATL’25 is a non-negotiable piece of the equation). I’m not sure how much I care for this though… it creates a massive hole to fill.

If DJM's reported value is one unprotected first then Dev's would be equal if not lesser than that I would imagine.

Dev+ all the the ATL picks but they have to take back Zollins seems fair. Spurs would still have 30m+ in cap space and could even do some rent a cap space trades to recoup draft capitol.

[mo7888]

If DJM's reported value is one unprotected first then Dev's would be equal if not lesser than that I would imagine.

Dev+ all the the ATL picks but they have to take back Zollins seems fair. Spurs would still have 30m+ in cap space and could even do some rent a cap space trades to recoup draft capitol.

DJM was valued at 1 first.... Atlanta passed in that... he'll be worth 2 this summer when more teams have future firsts. .

Dev + KJ + our 1st this year or their 25 1st would probably get it done. Conversely, Scott's proposal without KJ would probably get it done too, if we really want Trae.

[Chinook]

thats in part because its pretty rare for the team to have just been a big seller becoming a big buyer that soon.

after OKC traded westbrook to houston, its not like OKC was actively trying to buy harden at that point. that was the same offseason where they were unloading PG to the clippers.

when houston sold harden to brooklyn, its true that brooklyn didnt go back to houston, they went to philly/phoenix to offload harden and durant. but was houston actively trying to trade for a star at that point?

so houston didnt really have the opportunity to buy its future back from OKC, nor did Brooklyn have that opp with phoenix.

its not a usual cir stance where a team that just blew it up is potentially looking to trade picks for parts within 1 season. while the spurs had been trading parts for a while, the murray trade was the obvious tipping point and 1.5 seasons later the spurs have an all-time foundational piece who looks poised to get better quickly

Houston didn't seem to try to get its picks back from OKC. Harden may not really have had that kind of value though. Durant definitely did, and as we can see, the Rockets seem perfectly willing to give the Nets their picks back for Bridges. The Nets have balked despite being a couple of free-agent misses from giving up multiple lotto picks. It's easy to explain why in their case -- they aren't tanking. They want to win, and they think between Bridges, the Suns picks and their perceived free-agent advantages, they could build better not doing that.

It's rare to have all-in teams in the first place, but the number of all-in teams that fall apart quickly doesn't seem that rare adjusting for that. Teams usually make deals like this in order to respond to a closing window, so the result if often that those teams find themselves in a position where they have to sell off pieces. ATL's trade wasn't even that all-inish. It's only because the picks were pushed out three years that really makes this seem separate from the Siakam trade. Normally, we'd be talking about just a 2025 pick being open. The market went crazy for a couple of years with very little to show for it for the teams that spent all those picks. While I'd assume we'll see more conservative offers from teams going forward, I think the value of having a team over a barrel has been demonstrated enough. That's even more true if the Hawks choose Murray over Young, since they wouldn't be doing that to tank and may not see Murray, Johnson and some return as a team that would give up valuable picks they would prioritize getting back from SA.

[Kevin]

DJM was valued at 1 first.... Atlanta passed in that... he'll be worth 2 this summer when more teams have future firsts. .

Dev + KJ + our 1st this year or their 25 1st would probably get it done. Conversely, Scott's proposal without KJ would probably get it done too, if we really want Trae.

People want a shot at Flagg or Boozer but Atlanta wants the same opportunity if things fall apart. If you want Young you have to part with the 25&26 picks. You might be able to hold on to 27 pick if you included Dev without attaching Zollins.

[RC_Drunkford]

Just because he isn't the main problem, doesn't mean that he's still not a problem. And even though I have little love for defensive statistics (including the ones you cited), he's still got the worst defensive box score plus/minus of any of their rotation players. There's a lot of turd polishing here for a guy who is never going to be an even league average defender. He's too small, too weak, and too slow. He would be a fun sixth man instant offense guy off the bench, but you are in for a world of hurt if you're relying on him to do anything but have the world's most punchable face while dominating the ball and getting mercilessly hunted in the playoffs.

Outside of one great series against a flawed Knicks team and being in the building while Ben Simmons and the Sixers imploded, this guy has done nothing but lose. He's the ultimate empty calories guy that this front office should avoid like the plague. Not to mention the off the court stuff... bad teammate, bad dude, just about the anti-Spur in every way.

tell me you're a hater without telling me you're a hater

[exstatic]

People want a shot at Flagg or Boozer but Atlanta wants the same opportunity if things fall apart. If you want Young you have to part with the 25&26 picks. You might be able to hold on to 27 pick if you included Dev without attaching Zollins.

The 27 pick becomes crap, in that case.

[Kevin]

The 27 pick becomes crap, in that case.

I mostly agree with that.

The most likely trade will be Keldon plus all the the DJM picks refunded. I would really like to include Zollins but it will probably take the Bulls or Raps pick to do it.

[scott]

Houston didn't seem to try to get its picks back from OKC. Harden may not really have had that kind of value though. Durant definitely did, and as we can see, the Rockets seem perfectly willing to give the Nets their picks back for Bridges. The Nets have balked despite being a couple of free-agent misses from giving up multiple lotto picks. It's easy to explain why in their case -- they aren't tanking. They want to win, and they think between Bridges, the Suns picks and their perceived free-agent advantages, they could build better not doing that.

It's rare to have all-in teams in the first place, but the number of all-in teams that fall apart quickly doesn't seem that rare adjusting for that. Teams usually make deals like this in order to respond to a closing window, so the result if often that those teams find themselves in a position where they have to sell off pieces. ATL's trade wasn't even that all-inish. It's only because the picks were pushed out three years that really makes this seem separate from the Siakam trade. Normally, we'd be talking about just a 2025 pick being open. The market went crazy for a couple of years with very little to show for it for the teams that spent all those picks. While I'd assume we'll see more conservative offers from teams going forward, I think the value of having a team over a barrel has been demonstrated enough. That's even more true if the Hawks choose Murray over Young, since they wouldn't be doing that to tank and may not see Murray, Johnson and some return as a team that would give up valuable picks they would prioritize getting back from SA.

I get what you are saying, but if we are looking at the past and noting that teams rarely try to get their own picks back, we need to also consider the perfect confluence of events required for that kind of discussion to happen.

In the case of Harden and Houston… for all we know Houston would have loved to go get their picks back from OKC, but at that time OKC was going into tank mode - why would they have entertained giving all that draft capital back?

In this case we would (potentially, we don’t actually even know at this point - it’s all still speculation) have a team (Atlanta) looking to rebuild just at the exact perfect time that the team who holds all their picks (San Antonio) was looking to add a high profile piece… AND (another important part of this confluence) is that Atlanta has a player they wouldn’t mind parting with that San Antonio covets (allegedly). Perhaps there aren’t example of it happening like this before, because this confluence of events hasn’t happened before?

[TD 21]

People like you are impossible to discuss with.
Concerns about his fit and defense are fair, but when you start talking about punchable face and ridiculous stuff like bad teammate and dude I can't take your post seriously.

Was Parker a good dude and teammate?
Was Bowen an epitome of sportsmanship?
Was Kawhi a true Spur?

Stop with the nonsense, Timmy isn't walking back through that door.

Not only that, but this notion that you can't win with a small guard who'll get "hunted" in the playoffs is the latest myth . . .

You couldn't win with the best player as a non C, until Johnson, Bird and Jordan did.

You couldn't win without a superstar, until the '04 Pistons did.

You couldn't win the best player as a small guard, until Thomas and Curry did. Granted, the former was more so an ensemble cast and the latter has benefitted from unprecedented opponent injury luck + the then 2nd best player in the league parachuting onto his team.

You couldn't win without a minimum good C, until the "Heatles" did.

You couldn't win without a big wing as your best player, until Antetokounmpo did.

You couldn't win with a C who isn't a great defensive anchor/rim protector, until Jokic did.

There's always exceptions based on the individuals involved. If Wembanyama becomes as most expect, which is the best player in the league, then yeah he likely can win with a small guard, who's a star in his own right, as the second best player.

You probably can't have more than one in the rotation and they need to be a superstar or star though.

[mo7888]

People want a shot at Flagg or Boozer but Atlanta wants the same opportunity if things fall apart. If you want Young you have to part with the 25&26 picks. You might be able to hold on to 27 pick if you included Dev without attaching Zollins.

I don't want him that bad.... So I'd balk at that price

[Russo21]

He's an interesting player for sure. Puts up something like 27 and 11, gets a few steals here and there but is obviously a defensive liability. Wemby and Young together would be lob City and a dynamic 3 point shooting team also. He'd instantly make Wemby's life easier, he'd probably average 30 next year with Young feeding him. Then you factor in his shooting % which is 42% and 37% which isn't so good, i thought itd be better actually. It's an interesting one, he's young, the move has lots of upside and lots of downside for the team. Surround him with a few defenders and it could work out. I'm not enamoured yet with anyone on the team as is really, I don't think there's a player currently on the roster capable of being the 2nd best player on a championship team so if it can be done and the price is right it's worth a shot. Bring on draft day and the off-season already!

[exstatic]

He's an interesting player for sure. Puts up something like 27 and 11, gets a few steals here and there but is obviously a defensive liability. Wemby and Young together would be lob City and a dynamic 3 point shooting team also. He'd instantly make Wemby's life easier, he'd probably average 30 next year with Young feeding him. Then you factor in his shooting % which is 42% and 37% which isn't so good, i thought itd be better actually. It's an interesting one, he's young, the move has lots of upside and lots of downside for the team. Surround him with a few defenders and it could work out. I'm not enamoured yet with anyone on the team as is really, I don't think there's a player currently on the roster capable of being the 2nd best player on a championship team so if it can be done and the price is right it's worth a shot. Bring on draft day and the off-season already!

He needs to stop taking crappy shots. Victor would have enough gravity to get him super clean looks right at the arc. No more of this logo . He could probably shoot 40-42% from long if he cleaned up his looks.