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I mean the two best players in the league are white
Why take Topic at 2 when you can likely get him with the 7th or 8th pick now.
I mean the two best players in the league are white
I said white American
But it quickly thins out after that.
Tankathon loves Topic like they haven't updated their draft rankings since December.
75% of the league is black for a reason, superior athletes.
I have a feeling Collier is higher on their board than we realize. If timvp is to be believed, they had Amen high on their board last year. They aren't afraid of shooting struggles if the tools are there. They also showed with Murray and one-and-dones with poor freshman seasons don't get discounted if they think it's a bad situation and the high-school tape is good. Part of me feel like that's who they decided to not accelerate their rebuild for.
Kind of a different situation. They took Murray with the 29th pick where you're just hoping to get someone who can make it in the league and can take chances without much opportunity cost. Whole different thing if they're picking 7-9 and you have a pick that you really have to make count. Amen I could understand taking a big home run swing on since he was the most athletic player in the draft and someone with the potential to be a transcendent player if he could be taught a jump shot. Don't really see Collier having that kind of athleticism or upside.
If we are going to draft a non-shooting high turnover point guard, I want everyone fired tbh. You can't surround Wemby with No Shooters. It's about the dumbest thing you can do tbh. Westbrook and Durant never rang because Westbrook couldn't shoot the ball in the ocean from 3 and he made boneheaded mistakes. Durant and Curry worked because Steph was an amazing shooter and doesn't up.
Please for the love of gawd don't draft Collier
Amen is a pretty smart player. Collier really isn't one, from watching him. Kinda bad bbIQ.
Collier's ability to get into the paint is superlative, and he's quite athletic as far as I can tell. From what I can recall the Spurs had a lottery grade on Murray, which means they didn't discount him much on their board after his freshman season. So by that right, if the Spurs had Collier high on their board going into the season, this season might NOT have dropped him in their eyes like it did for the mocks.
I think that is too rigid of a view of what works around Wemby. Victor is not Duncan. He's not going to be hanging out in the paint backing folks down. The Spurs are going to be a five-out team with him, not a four-out. While it is important to note that you can't export shooting, there are additional factors that go into having a flowing offense built around Wemby. Speed and penetration are really important too. The single thing that will help Wemby the most is a player who's too good of a scoring threat to give second or third priority to. That scoring threat matters more than how they score, because Victor at this point is his career is likely well served being able to lean into another player being the head of the offensive snake so he can actually do the things like catch lobs, get duck-ins or spot up.
Wemby's the most turnover prone player in the league. He turns the ball over more than Collier. Trae Young does too. We all expect Victor to grow out of that and are mostly willing to overlook Young's mistakes. That's not a reason to not pick Collier. Every rookie is going to have things they need to improve on. No matter how much fans want to worry, the Spurs have the time to let them figure it out.
Last edited by Chinook; 03-06-2024 at 02:51 PM.
Thank you.
It's easy to say "We have to fix the point guard problem." It's another to look at the actual, tangible options.
For this draft, unless some player suddenly comes into lottery range, in my estimation our first choices include:
Topic
Dillingham
Sheppard
Castle
Collier
Guys who may trickle into the teens or will last until the second round include:
Jared McCain
Tyrese Proctor
DJ Wagner
Tyler Kolek
etc.
If your request is for a good-shooting point guard who can manipulate defenses and get really pressure the lane while playing good defense, you ain't gonna get it. If you want all that AND that this player is ready right away, definitely ain't getting it.
For every one of those guys, you have to give something up.
There are maybe two of them who are very good at pressuring the rim, and that's Dillingham and Collier. Neither is going to provide much defense. Collier isn't going to provide any shooting. And, frankly, Collier just seems kind of dumb.
If you want shooting and defense, then you hope Sheppard pans out, but he provides no rim pressure and his point guard skills are a bit shaky at this point (as in lead guard).
If you want defense and size and a guy who may be able to do a lot, but who doesn't shoot, it's Castle.
THAT'S why you have to find some other solutions, because your dream scenario isn't coming from these players. Now, I really like some of these PG prospects, but otherwise some of y'all sound like the people on those House Buying shows where they list all the things they want, including pool and view and fifty bedrooms, and then say their budget is $30,000.
Topic is not a white american
Tbh, with this Topic injury situation, I kind of hope he skips this year's draft, he could really use another year in Europe.
And I really don't want a questionable shooter, traffic cone on defense, completely unknown prospect as a top5 pick.
Especially not with his injury situation and lack of real games.
That's another worrying thing about Trae Young. He's in his sixth year and his turnover% stat has gone 17.6, 16.2, 16.2, 14.5, 15.2, 16.0 (this season). There is no track record of improvement there.
Dejounte Murray is a poster child for improvement in this area. His turnover% in 7 seasons has gone 22.7, 16.6, 15.4, 10.2, 11.8, 10.2, 10.6 (this season).
Disclaimer: I don't watch a lot of Trae Young. I don't know how much of his turnover problems are due to bad decisions compared to teammates. Advanced passing stats paint him as a PnR savant in terms of shot quality created; does he try to thread needles too often? Or are his turnover problems vis a vis Dejounte due to Trae being much more of a finisher than Dejounte (based on comparative usage rate)?
Young has a lot that scared me about him as a prospect on the team He turns the ball over a lot, shoots stupid shots, and plays bad defense. On the otherhand, he can get to the lane, set up teammates, and he is a good shooter. Young is a classic case of he shouldn't be the best player on your team. Shrink his role a bit, and see if you can' teach him to clean up his mistakes. That's all he really has to work on. Those two things.
Yes and so pairing Wemby with a young turnover prone guard isn't the smartest thing to do. And when you add on top of that Collier can't shoot, for me it's a nonstarter. Speed and penetration are important but to me shooting has to be in there as well. That's why I want Dilly. He has speed, penetration, and shooting. Dilly just isn't going to ever be a good defender and to me that's not that important for a PG. Wing and interior defenders are way more important.
Collier has too much (imo) to fix that he will never put it all together. We don't need to post up Wemby every possession, and by no means am I saying to. However it is disingenuous to say that we can have a nonshooting PG,PF, and SF on our team to surround Wemby with and expect to succeed. As of now, there's no plan of replacing PF, so our PG needs to be able to shoot.
Murray does make a lot more sense as a fit for us for a lot of reasons.
I never said ball dominant. I said dominant. Sounds like a misunderstanding.
Murray is waaaaaaaaayyyyyy too immature to have around this young group!
I'd always rather take a player that's obviously smart and work on his flaws than take someone with fundamental shooting flaws that are really difficult to fix.
Trae isn't Westbrook who just attacked the paint without caring about anything due to his physical advantage.
He's the smallest guy on the court most of the time and while he's got the speed advantage, he wouldn't be able to do without high playmaking IQ.
I'd like to see some stats about what percentage of his turnovers are kept in play and end in fastbreaks.
He doesn't get stripped often and doesn't lose the ball in dumb ways, it's mostly overly-ambitious passes from what I've seen.
And for every one of those turnovers, he'll make an assist or two very few players can make.
If he buys into being Wemby's Robin, he'd be a perfect fit.
If he doesn't his career as far as serious playoff basketball would be over because if Spurs couldn't make him work, noone can.
He will be the French Johnny Davis!
You’re deflecting. You said I don’t like Europeans and white Americans.
I am bias against the latter, and with good reason. Name me the 5 best white American players currently.
That's one of the weirdest comparissons ever. Davis is 6'4", Risacher 6"10". Davis couldn't shoot, Risacher is a 40% 3pt shooter.
Doncic is not better than Embiid or Antetokounmpo and statistically Gilgeous-Alexander either. I'd give him the edge for now on the latter though considering the relative lack of track record.
That was pre Wembanyama.
This team needs to stop trying to outsmart everyone else by picking some project and just pick someone who already knows how to (IQ and skill wise) play basketball, which is why I keep vouching for Risacher and Sheppard.
Investing and waiting probably 3-5 years to see if Collier can figure out how to be become a likely still sub par shooter because he has the physical tools to be a good defender and can get "downhill" would be a waste of an asset and time at this point.
Im glad you mentioned Proctor and Kolek. I like both of these guys alot and Proctor, I think has a good chance of well out performing his current draft status.
I wouldn't take either guy in tne top 10, but if we traded back or traded up from the 2nd round just a little bit, I'd be perfectly happy with either.
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