Most Likely Off Season Scenario?

[tbdog]

Because Wemby would be the #1 option and Trae the #2. Or do you want Young to suck the air out of the ball like he does in Atlanta while Wemby watches?

That two man game though.

[JeffDuncan]

This is such a dumb ing post …

Meaning your own, you’re right. You wrote a dumb ing post. And not for the first time.

Having more assists doesn't equal being the better passer. Many times it means having the ball in your hands more. …

You claim that the reason Jokic has such fine assist numbers isn’t because he’s a great passer, it’s only because he gets his hands on the ball a lot.

You moron.

(Trae Young has a higher AST% this season than Jokic, btw.)

… Dejounte in his last season with the Spurs averaged over 9 assists per game, as soon as he teamed up with Young, DJ's assists went down to 6. …

Would Trae Young become the shooting guard if he joined the Spurs?

Nice try at changing the subject. You moron.

The funniest thing is how you wrote that with no regard at all for the change of position. Looks like you don’t care about a change of position. You need to go back to those posts you’ve made where you’ve been so insistent that Wemby must be a center, and apologize, and tell everyone you’ve now concluded that position doesn’t matter.

So go do that now.

The argument you have presented is basically: ‘higher assist numbers don’t mean a player is a better passer, because DeJounte Murray became a shooting guard.’

You moron.

It is laughable that this is the kind of basketball debate you have to have with some people here. And the funniest part is that he's the one callong others "dumb".

Nice try, spunky. Ya dumbass.

And even though the entire reason for the discussion is possible teammates for Wemby, you wrote another post where you didn’t mention Wemby at all.

You moron.

Jamal Murray has an AST% of 31.2.

Trae Young has an AST% of 44.4.

Which of those two is more likely to get an assist to Wemby on a typical possession?

Can you answer that? Or are you truly nothing but a dumbass?

[heyheymymy]

1. Tre Jones - $ 9.1
2. Blake Wesley - $ 2.6 (team option)
3. Devin Vassell - $ 29.3
4. Malaki Branham - $ 3.2 (team option)
5. Keldon Johnson - $ 19.0
6. Julian Champagnie - $ 3.0 (not fully guaranteed)
7. Sidy Cissoko - $ 1.8
8. Jeremy Sochan - $ 5.5 (team option)
9. Victor Wembanyama - $ 12.7
10. Zach Collins - $ 16.7
11. Charles Bassey - $ 2.5 (not fully guaranteed)

12. (Dominick Barlow) - $ 0.0 (free agent)
13. (Cedi Osman) - $ 0.0 (free agent)
14. (Sandro Mamuklashvili) - $ 0.0 (free agent)
15. (Devontae' Graham) - $ 12.6 (not fully guaranteed)

16. Two-Way 1
17. Two-Way 2
18. Two-Way 3

Total Salary = $91.6 / $141.0 salary cap

- all 24-25 contracts on books plus non-distributed ~3.0MM for Graham's approx guaranteed portion if he is waived by July 1, 2024. add 9.6 + the 3.0 = 12.6 if Graham isn't waived by July 1, 2024

Total Salary = $108.4 / $141.0 salary cap

- all 24-25 contracts on books plus non-distributed ~3.0MM for Graham's approx guaranteed portion if he is waived by July 1, 2024
- plus picking up team options on Wesley, Branham, Sochan
- plus fully guaranteeing Champagnie and Bassey

[heyheymymy]

Thoughts:


Check my math/roster lol open to any clarifications corrections and thoughts here thanks

Looks like you could have the 2 slots freed up for SA FRP and potential TOR FRP by not bringing back Mamu and Graham

Feels like you must pursue the return of Osman. I could see differing opinions on ST but Osman seems like the type of guy Spurs love and he seems to fit the role and brings zero drama good locker room vibes. Feels like the slight upgrade to Doug role.

Feels like Barlow will hold his slot and be brought back as well. He’s done well and shown those hints of capabilities worth further exploration. Again, Spurs type and someone the FO historically sticks with so I expect Barlow to return.

Feels like you could waive Bassey but I think the FO typically sticks with guys in these injury situations and seemed high on Bassey too. Would free up a slot.

Suppose if you really want to clean house you could clear like up to 5 slots by some or all of not bringing back Mamu, waiving Cissoko, cutting before full guarantee Bassey, Champ, and Graham plus add another 2 for a total of 7 opened slots by not bringing back Osman and Barlow as well. Some combination of this will happen but you see tons of flexibility there whatever it ends up being.

Clear up to 7 slots and still keep Wesley, Branham and Sochan plus core guys Jones, Vassell, Johnson, Wemby and Collins with 7 slots to fill from draft and FA.

A Euro Stash activates a 19th roster slot correct me if I’m wrong. Something to keep in mind for the 2RPs

You can distribute Graham’s approx $2.8-3.0 guaranteed portion at approx $0.944 each season over the next 3 seasons, I believe.

[heyheymymy]

Here is the Rookie pay scale:

1st: $10,132,300
2nd: $9,065,600
3rd: $8,141,200
4th: $7,340,000
5th: $6,646,800
6th: $6,037,000
7th: $5,511,000
8th: $5,048,800
9th: $4,640,900
10th: $4,408,800

Say SA gets TOR that’s about two top 10 picks. Say it’s #4 & #8. That’s $7.3 plus $5.0 = $12.3 added to salary.

Takes you to $121.7 / $141.0 salary cap for:

- all 24-25 contracts on books plus non-distributed 3.0MM for Graham's approx guaranteed portion if he is waived by July 1, 2024
- plus picking up team options on Wesley, Branham, Sochan
- plus fully guaranteeing Champagnie and Bassey
-plus hypothetical FRP #4 & FRP #8

Jones/FRP/Wesley
Vassell/Branham
Keldon/FRP/Champ/Cissoko
Sochan/Osman/Barlow
Wemby/Zollins/Bassey

3 Two-Ways

for $121.7 plus Osman and Barlow offers and Two-Way amounts / $141.0 salary cap

Waive say Bassey in this scenario and add a say, $8-14MM free agent and still hit cap

[rankingtear]

There is too much emphasis on assist to Wemby. What Wemby actually wants is a huge part of decision making. The thing most of Trae teammates complain about.

[Proxy]

highly doubt trae is dumb to the point where he wouldn't understand he'd be the robin to wemby, anyone that thinks trae would be selfish to that point is delusional

[Proxy]

trae and wemby could both get their numbers. trae getting his shots and assist, wemby getting his defense stats and post positioning

[exstatic]

1. Tre Jones - $ 9.1
2. Blake Wesley - $ 2.6 (team option)
3. Devin Vassell - $ 29.3
4. Malaki Branham - $ 3.2 (team option)
5. Keldon Johnson - $ 19.0
6. Julian Champagnie - $ 3.0 (not fully guaranteed)
7. Sidy Cissoko - $ 1.8
8. Jeremy Sochan - $ 5.5 (team option)
9. Victor Wembanyama - $ 12.7
10. Zach Collins - $ 16.7
11. Charles Bassey - $ 2.5 (not fully guaranteed)

12. (Dominick Barlow) - $ 0.0 (free agent)
13. (Cedi Osman) - $ 0.0 (free agent)
14. (Sandro Mamuklashvili) - $ 0.0 (free agent)
15. (Devontae' Graham) - $ 12.6 (not fully guaranteed)

16. Two-Way 1
17. Two-Way 2
18. Two-Way 3

Total Salary = $91.6 / $141.0 salary cap

- all 24-25 contracts on books plus non-distributed ~3.0MM for Graham's approx guaranteed portion if he is waived by July 1, 2024. add 9.6 + the 3.0 = 12.6 if Graham isn't waived by July 1, 2024

Total Salary = $108.4 / $141.0 salary cap

- all 24-25 contracts on books plus non-distributed ~3.0MM for Graham's approx guaranteed portion if he is waived by July 1, 2024
- plus picking up team options on Wesley, Branham, Sochan
- plus fully guaranteeing Champagnie and Bassey

Just to be clear, rookie scale contracts are iron clad guaranteed for years one and two, but the options are offset. After year one,you have to decide on the year THREE option, and after year two, the year FOUR option. The year three options for Sochan, Malaki, and Wesley have already been exercised last fall. This fall, after year two, they decide on the year four options.

[exstatic]

1. Tre Jones - $ 9.1
2. Blake Wesley - $ 2.6 (team option)
3. Devin Vassell - $ 29.3
4. Malaki Branham - $ 3.2 (team option)
5. Keldon Johnson - $ 19.0
6. Julian Champagnie - $ 3.0 (not fully guaranteed)
7. Sidy Cissoko - $ 1.8
8. Jeremy Sochan - $ 5.5 (team option)
9. Victor Wembanyama - $ 12.7
10. Zach Collins - $ 16.7
11. Charles Bassey - $ 2.5 (not fully guaranteed)

12. (Dominick Barlow) - $ 0.0 (free agent)
13. (Cedi Osman) - $ 0.0 (free agent)
14. (Sandro Mamuklashvili) - $ 0.0 (free agent)
15. (Devontae' Graham) - $ 12.6 (not fully guaranteed)

16. Two-Way 1
17. Two-Way 2
18. Two-Way 3

Total Salary = $91.6 / $141.0 salary cap

- all 24-25 contracts on books plus non-distributed ~3.0MM for Graham's approx guaranteed portion if he is waived by July 1, 2024. add 9.6 + the 3.0 = 12.6 if Graham isn't waived by July 1, 2024

Total Salary = $108.4 / $141.0 salary cap

- all 24-25 contracts on books plus non-distributed ~3.0MM for Graham's approx guaranteed portion if he is waived by July 1, 2024
- plus picking up team options on Wesley, Branham, Sochan
- plus fully guaranteeing Champagnie and Bassey

Just to be clear, rookie scale contracts are iron clad guaranteed for years one and two, but the options are offset. After year one,you have to decide on the year THREE option, and after year two, the year FOUR option. The year three options for Sochan, Malaki, and Wesley have already been exercised last fall. This fall, after year two, they decide on the year four options.

[spurraider21]

Because Wemby would be the #1 option and Trae the #2. Or do you want Young to suck the air out of the ball like he does in Atlanta while Wemby watches?

Malone was the #1 option and Stockton was very much on ball. same with stoudemire/nash

[heyheymymy]

Jones/Wesley
Vassell/Branham
Champagnie/Johnson/Sissoko
Sochan/
Wemby/Zollins/Bassey

TOTAL: $118.4 / $141.0 salary cap

Plus $7.3 for say a #4 FRP plus $5.0 for say a #8 FRP = $12.3 added to salary.

TOTAL: $130.7 / $141.0 salary cap

That gives $10.3MM left under cap to pay Graham's guaranteed portion (~3.0MM), sign Barlow, possibly Osman, Two-Way contracts and/or any possible free agents pending roster avail. Not even mentioning 2RPs depending on freeing up existing roster slots.

2024-2025

Jones/FRP/Wesley
Vassell/Branham
FRP/Johnson/Champagnie/Sissoko
Sochan/Osman/Barlow
Wemby/Zollins/Bassey

Possibly trade Keldon plus sweetners or don't bring Champ back and use the salary/vacancy to bring back an established player in trade or sign a target free agent?

[heyheymymy]

thanks ex

EDIT: Indeed Sochan, Branham and Wesley options exercised October 23, 2023

[Silverheart80]

Well, yeah, but I'm not arguing I would rather add Herb Jones over any all-star. I'm saying I would rather add Herb Jones over what I consider extremely flawed all-stars like a Trae Young or prime Westbrook.



Yeah, but not just any all-star. You have to choose the right ones, that's why I want no part of Trae Young.

Pretty much.

If the Spurs could acquire Herb Jones in a trade without giving up most of their future prime draft assets -- yeah, sure. Pull the trigger.

Chances are slim he'll be available unless the Pels implode in the first round, get smashed by big margins, and their chemistry unravels. Even then, I don't see them cutting Herb Jones loose, unless management panics. AND YET every year, at least one or two playoff teams grossly underperform and wanna "shake things up", come summertime. They panic. A key player that was unavailable at the end of the regular season suddenly becomes trade bait. So yeah, if you're rooting for Herb Jones to be a Spur, then I guess root for the Pels to be obliterated in the playoffs.

Trae Young is a waste of conversation. Currently, he's surrounded by a strong defensive backcourt partner, a shot blocking big man, plus sharpshooters and he's still in the lottery. ATL is not going to cut him loose to the Spurs without demanding their draft assets back. Spurs own the Hawks' future. Use that advantage wisely. Ice Trae's defense is garbage. Spurs' team defense is already bad enough. If the mission is to build a team around VW that can potentially win multiple rings, Trae's not the answer.

[pad300]

...
A Euro Stash activates a 19th roster slot correct me if I’m wrong. Something to keep in mind for the 2RPs
...

Could you expand on what this is and how it works (or provide a link)?

If, for example, we drafted Topic with our highest (or only) FRP, and he was willing to take this stash option, what would happen? Could he play in Euroleague? Would he count on our payroll for the year (lux tax)? Would the year count against his rookie contract?

[heyheymymy]

Correct me if I’m wrong but "Euro" Stash retains the rights to sign that player while they sign with and play for any non-NBA team for up to 3 years, I believe. They don't count against salary (the other team is paying) or roster capacity, I believe.
Rights are tradable. I think it's usually second round. Seems highly unlikely Topic would agree to that but you never know, his situation is so unique maybe it's possible but highly doubtful.

[MannyIsGod]

Because Wemby would be the #1 option and Trae the #2. Or do you want Young to suck the air out of the ball like he does in Atlanta while Wemby watches?

Why is this some given? Trae is currently by far the better of the two offensively and its not some given Wemby is that good ever. Wemby is going to be a very good player on both sides of the court, but his role with Trae would be one where he can receive lobs and other passes to put him in position to score easily. It would make zero sense to have Young defer to him.

[DPG21920]

Here is the Rookie pay scale:

1st: $10,132,300
2nd: $9,065,600
3rd: $8,141,200
4th: $7,340,000
5th: $6,646,800
6th: $6,037,000
7th: $5,511,000
8th: $5,048,800
9th: $4,640,900
10th: $4,408,800

Say SA gets TOR that’s about two top 10 picks. Say it’s #4 & #8. That’s $7.3 plus $5.0 = $12.3 added to salary.

Takes you to $121.7 / $141.0 salary cap for:

- all 24-25 contracts on books plus non-distributed 3.0MM for Graham's approx guaranteed portion if he is waived by July 1, 2024
- plus picking up team options on Wesley, Branham, Sochan
- plus fully guaranteeing Champagnie and Bassey
-plus hypothetical FRP #4 & FRP #8

Jones/FRP/Wesley
Vassell/Branham
Keldon/FRP/Champ/Cissoko
Sochan/Osman/Barlow
Wemby/Zollins/Bassey

3 Two-Ways

for $121.7 plus Osman and Barlow offers and Two-Way amounts / $141.0 salary cap

Waive say Bassey in this scenario and add a say, $8-14MM free agent and still hit cap

Spurs have a ton of 2nd round picks - if they need cap space trading Collins even if you have to attach 2 2nds should not be that hard IMO. Of course there is always the trade Keldon route too where you may be able to get something back vs sending picks out like with Collins.

[DPG21920]

Malone was the #1 option and Stockton was very much on ball. same with stoudemire/nash

This is true but everything we’ve seen from SA seems to indicate they would not have that same type of setup/offense so it becomes a question on if that is true, how much of Trae’s value then gets somewhat negated because Spurs aren’t just going to have a ball dominant PG like Nash style offense but a free flowing one where ball is moving with a lot of guys who can initiate beyond just carrying the ball up the court.

[DPG21920]

Why is this some given? Trae is currently by far the better of the two offensively and its not some given Wemby is that good ever. Wemby is going to be a very good player on both sides of the court, but his role with Trae would be one where he can receive lobs and other passes to put him in position to score easily. It would make zero sense to have Young defer to him.

Ehhhh….I mean I see what you are saying but IMO Spurs are clearly building for the future and in that scenario Wemby has to grow and get the reps even if technically at this point in time Trae is better

[MannyIsGod]

Ehhhh….I mean I see what you are saying but IMO Spurs are clearly building for the future and in that scenario Wemby has to grow and get the reps even if technically at this point in time Trae is better

Well in a scenario where they get Young I don't think they're taking their time building for the future and letting Wemby learn on the court at the expense of the team. Wemby is a great player and I think he has the chance to be the best player in the NBA but I don't think its a given or even likely that he ever develops into a better offensive player than Young. That's not because I don't expect Wemby to be good but rather because not many players ever get that good on offense.

[DPG21920]

Well in a scenario where they get Young I don't think they're taking their time building for the future and letting Wemby learn on the court at the expense of the team. Wemby is a great player and I think he has the chance to be the best player in the NBA but I don't think its a given or even likely that he ever develops into a better offensive player than Young. That's not because I don't expect Wemby to be good but rather because not many players ever get that good on offense.

I think Wemby has more than shown enough on offense already that hes worth betting on there. It’s also why I think Spurs will zero % go after Trae. Of course I can be wrong and I will root for him if they decide that’s what they think is best, but I don’t think they go for him due to the stuff im saying (Wemby being the number one option as the only way to win a le + if that’s true Traes value being severely negated in that scenario = not worth paying price to get him)

[BacktoBasics]

Well in a scenario where they get Young I don't think they're taking their time building for the future and letting Wemby learn on the court at the expense of the team. Wemby is a great player and I think he has the chance to be the best player in the NBA but I don't think its a given or even likely that he ever develops into a better offensive player than Young. That's not because I don't expect Wemby to be good but rather because not many players ever get that good on offense.

Just the reality that Trae is a ball dominant player with handles alone solidifies that point. No matter how good Wemby is he's not going to be a PG dictating pace.

[MannyIsGod]

I think Wemby has more than shown enough on offense already that hes worth betting on there. It’s also why I think Spurs will zero % go after Trae. Of course I can be wrong and I will root for him if they decide that’s what they think is best, but I don’t think they go for him due to the stuff im saying (Wemby being the number one option as the only way to win a le + if that’s true Traes value being severely negated in that scenario = not worth paying price to get him)

I mean its a pretty safe bet to say the Spurs won't get Young. That's by far the likeliest scenario here. I'm not betting against, Wemby being a great offensive player either! But if Wemby ever has as season above .40 from 3 and an assist percentage that high while limiting turnovers I'll be very surprised. I do think Wemby could have some monster offensive seasons but I do think they'll likely take a very good facilitator.

[exstatic]

Malone was the #1 option and Stockton was very much on ball. same with stoudemire/nash

Trae is not Stockton, not even close.