NBA: the '24 NBA FINALS: Celtics vs Mavericks

[Spurminator]

funniest thing of all is how trash talking has always been a legendary part of many legacies, such as bird, jordan, Kobe, and many others

but now when Luka trash talks? it's a problem and a sign of mental weakness and childishness gmab

I do think there's a difference in trash talking vs. throwing tantrums with the refs, and as much as I like Luka I hope he outgrows the latter. With these Euros though, I don't know.

[Spurminator]

No one would call Draymond Green a superstar, would you?

I mean he's probably going to be in the Hall of Fame, so I guess it depends where the "superstar" cutoff point is.

[Thread]

I mean he's probably going to be in the Hall of Fame, so I guess it depends where the "superstar" cutoff point is.

Hall of Fame, ROY, COY, MVP, nothing more than pretties, baubles, wall hangers.

You know what it is, Spurm...Make the playoffs, win the last game you play.

That's it & that's all.

[Neo.]

I do think there's a difference in trash talking vs. throwing tantrums with the refs, and as much as I like Luka I hope he outgrows the latter. With these Euros though, I don't know.

I agree. I'm not confusing the two. but there have been articles and analysts who have criticized him for being mentally weak bc he trash talks players and fans, instead of being silent.

[DAF86]

Still a 5th seed. Yes their trade transformed them but it didn't make them a championship team.

But they should be embarrassed to lose to Boston in this fashion. Pretty sure the Pacers were as compe ive even without Haliburton. Too many talking heads think Luka fouling out was the problem. The problem happened when Luka was in the game, when Boston went up by 21 and Luka was playing hero brick. So many possessions I said "just shoot the ing ball" and they'd turn it over trying to be cute.

But Euroball is often ugly ref baiting bull like that. Luka was more interested in trying to draw a foul than in actually scoring or playing defense. He missed a couple shots late trying to jump into a defender instead of taking a solid shot. I like to see that James Harden level get ignored, often it doesn't in the RS.

The Mavs were +9 when Luka was on the floor, he clearly wasn't the problem.

[lefty20]

The Mavs were +9 when Luka was on the floor, he clearly wasn't the problem.

If I can add some context, it was mostly in the negative until the big 22-2 4th Q run. That run happened because Tatum went into Kobe mode to gun for the FMVP. It was nothing special that Luka did. Dude has been a generational traffic cone this entire post-season. OKC/Minny didn't have the personnel to take advantage of him, Celtics do. That's why the Mavs have lost 7 straight to them.

[Tyronn Lue]

The Mavs were +9 when Luka was on the floor, he clearly wasn't the problem.

If we're going to argue based on +/- then Kyrie with better offensive output and efficiency was the problem since he was -3. The problem wasn't Luka exactly, but having Kyrie and Luka on the floor at the same time you can see quite often that Kyrie is standing around watching Luka go 1:1. Luka is doing similar with Kyrie.

[DAF86]

If I can add some context, it was mostly in the negative until the big 22-2 4th Q run. That run happened because Tatum went into Kobe mode to gun for the FMVP. It was nothing special that Luka did. Dude has been a generational traffic cone this entire post-season. OKC/Minny didn't have the personnel to take advantage of him, Celtics do. That's why the Mavs have lost 7 straight to them.

Luka has the Mavs' best +/- in the series, he clearly hasn't been the problem.

I dislike his constant whining and I would love to troll mavfans about Luka, but I prefer to keep it real, tbh.

[DAF86]

If we're going to argue based on +/- then Kyrie with better offensive output and efficiency was the problem since he was -3. The problem wasn't Luka exactly, but having Kyrie and Luka on the floor at the same time you can see quite often that Kyrie is standing around watching Luka go 1:1. Luka is doing similar with Kyrie.

All I'm saying is that folks are now trying to set the narrative that the reason the Mavs are losing this series is because of Luka's whinning, defense or heliocentric play, and the truth is that, for a series that is 3-0, the Mavs are only -4 with Luka on the floor, while they get crushed without him. So, clearly, the problem isn't Luka, in fact, the complete opposite. Luka is the reason the Mavs are in the finals, and these last couple of games have been somewhat compe ive. The clear reason why the Mavs are 0-3 is because his supporting cast has sucked balls, including Kyrie, aside this last game.

[lefty20]

Luka has the Mavs' best +/- in the series, he clearly hasn't been the problem.

I dislike his constant whining and I would love to troll mavfans about Luka, but I prefer to keep it real, tbh.

No doubt that he his their best player, by far. But that doesn't him that his defense, or lack thereof, hasn't hurt his team. Because it has.

When you hang hang back to at ref while your team loses a 4v5, you are definitely hurting your team.

When you get blown by easily then refuse to rotate and force your teammates out of position, you are definitely hurting your team.


We can acknowledge that the Mavs wouldn't be here without Luka, because it's true.

We can also acknowledge that Mavs would have a better chance at beating the Celtics if Luka didn't completely mail it in defensively, because it's also true.

[Neo.]

let's also not ignore how idiotic Kidd has been

anyone who actually watches the Mavs knows that playing hardaway is basically playing 4v6. he had absolutely no reason to play him so much. he's so bad that the moment he hits the floor, boston (every opponent actually) began attacking him instead of luka

[Fabbs]

When you get blown by easily then refuse to rotate and force your teammates out of position, you are definitely hurting your team.

Some of that is def on his bad knee.
I'm not a Luka sniffer nor am i putting his D all on his bad knee. But ive watched other Mavs games this season before his knee.
It's definitely jacked up. He's not faking it.
Quite the opposite.
I think he is nails at wanting to play and playing thru pain.

Hadaway Jr etc. What ing pussies and low effort.

Brown and Kobme Tatum have MUCH better help then Kyrie and Luka.
Including CelticRef this series.
Undeinable.

[Tyronn Lue]

All I'm saying is that folks are now trying to set the narrative that the reason the Mavs are losing this series is because of Luka's whinning, defense or heliocentric play, and the truth is that, for a series that is 3-0, the Mavs are only -4 with Luka on the floor, while they get crushed without him. So, clearly, the problem isn't Luka, in fact, the complete opposite. Luka is the reason the Mavs are in the finals, and these last couple of games have been somewhat compe ive. The clear reason why the Mavs are 0-3 is because his supporting cast has sucked balls, including Kyrie, aside this last game.

Luka is the reason the Mavs are in the Finals. If they lose (which they will) it will naturally be because, although he was really good in these playoffs, he couldn't carry the entire team in the Finals. Kidd is a different conversation. I don't think he's ready.

[Tyronn Lue]

Curious to see if either Brown or Tatum goes into hero mode chasing the MVP. Haven't seen it yet but that airball WNBA layup by Jones Jr. Dallas needs to reconsider.

[benefactor]

[Raven]

If we're going to argue based on +/- then Kyrie with better offensive output and efficiency was the problem since he was -3. The problem wasn't Luka exactly, but having Kyrie and Luka on the floor at the same time you can see quite often that Kyrie is standing around watching Luka go 1:1. Luka is doing similar with Kyrie.

you almost got it. The problem was kyrie because his ballhandling/playcalling was godawful and he was getting torched on every posession.

[Raven]

No doubt that he his their best player, by far. But that doesn't him that his defense, or lack thereof, hasn't hurt his team. Because it has.

When you hang hang back to at ref while your team loses a 4v5, you are definitely hurting your team.

When you get blown by easily then refuse to rotate and force your teammates out of position, you are definitely hurting your team.


We can acknowledge that the Mavs wouldn't be here without Luka, because it's true.

We can also acknowledge that Mavs would have a better chance at beating the Celtics if Luka didn't completely mail it in defensively, because it's also true.

he has been murdering tatum on both ends the entire series.. the famous "got blown by" narrative is just laughable, as if they can't see the player always gets contested by a big when he lets the player go.. It is clearly by design, with a big contesting, and donut going for the ball swipe from behind. One on one on the perimeter he has been downright unplayable for boston. The supporting cast simply shat the bed massively, that's all there is to it.

[lefty20]

he has been murdering tatum on both ends the entire series.. the famous "got blown by" narrative is just laughable, as if they can't see the player always gets contested by a big when he lets the player go.. It is clearly by design, with a big contesting, and donut going for the ball swipe from behind. One on one on the perimeter he has been downright unplayable for boston. The supporting cast simply shat the bed massively, that's all there is to it.

Not true. Many of those vids show Luka giving up on the play & and waiting for a teammate to cover his rotation.

Sometimes he'll get even lazier and just stand there and point at nothing/nobody

Dude just sits there and hunts for rebounds. He had like 2 boxouts in the entire playoffs through the first 2 games of the finals.

I'll give him his props today. He slid his feet and tried better to keep up instead of immediately giving up after the first step.

[Texas_Ranger]

Luka has not been good on defense this series and thats pretty obvious, but the media is portraying him like some scrub, while at the start of the season, the same media, didn't even have the Mavs making the playoffs... Oh, and Boston is a clear better team. Losing to them is no ''hit for Lukas legacy''... Hit for his legacy would be if he was performing as Tatum.

And anyone that had any knee problems, you would know that lateral movement hurts as . I also don't think taking injections before every game is that good for you. So, if anyone really don't see that Luka is injured, he's pretty stupid.

[Pero]

If I can add some context, it was mostly in the negative until the big 22-2 4th Q run. That run happened because Tatum went into Kobe mode to gun for the FMVP. It was nothing special that Luka did. Dude has been a generational traffic cone this entire post-season. OKC/Minny didn't have the personnel to take advantage of him, Celtics do. That's why the Mavs have lost 7 straight to them.

LOL no. Before the finals he probably played some of his best defense in his life. Which may not be saying much lol, not saying he became some kind of defensive specialist, but he wasn't as bad as you make him out to be. He'll never be a good one on one defender (other than in the post), he's just not built for it IMO, but he can be an average team defender at least, when he's focused and not whining too much (and not too bothered by injury).

[lefty20]

LOL no. Before the finals he probably played some of his best defense in his life. Which may not be saying much lol, not saying he became some kind of defensive specialist, but he wasn't as bad as you make him out to be. He'll never be a good one on one defender (other than in the post), he's just not built for it IMO, but he can be an average team defender at least, when he's focused and not whining too much (and not too bothered by injury).

Did he doe? Did he really?

I'm not sayin he took the entire game off. He tried for a possession here and a possession there. He is more than capable of it. , he did it all first half just a few hours ago. But the fact is he did, in fact, coast for most of this post-season.

[Pero]

Funny, because he was lauded for his defense against the Clippers in particular.

[Neo.]

Did he doe? Did he really?

I'm not sayin he took the entire game off. He tried for a possession here and a possession there. He is more than capable of it. , he did it all first half just a few hours ago. But the fact is he did, in fact, coast for most of this post-season.

or maybe as has been stated multiple times, it's obvious team strategy due to his injuries. there's no question the defense has been shifting differently to help Luka. by creating a funnel where the big meets Lukas man much higher, it helps stop him from getting momentum to the rim and forces pass outs or uncomfortable layup angles (Tatum has missed a ton of those this series)

could he have given more effort at times such as game 3? absolutely, which he did in game 4. but it's obvious that allowing some of these blowbys has been part of the defensive strategy. if Luka provides enough resistance on his part, it actually works very well since brown and Tatum aren't great passers and don't have great vision.

ultimately the real issue for the Mavs all series has been offense, not defense. last night their pace was much better, instead of letting Boston get their defense set every possession.

[velik_m]

This game was more about Boston being flat than Mavs being that great. But it's nice to see some role players helping Luka and Kai. Still probably Boston in 5, we'll see it Mavs can make the series interesting.

[ambchang]

Hall of Fame, ROY, COY, MVP, nothing more than pretties, baubles, wall hangers.

You know what it is, Spurm...Make the playoffs, win the last game you play.

That's it & that's all.

But then 5 is not 5. Back to backs somehow counts more.