Nope. Keldon for 5 straight up? Sure. But I’m not trading Keldon a legit nba player to move up 3 spots. That’s silly. Now if they put in Ivey instead of Fournier? I’m ok with that.
Think I'd rather have Castle than say Carter + Johnson, especially when Keldon's trade value probably lowers further with another year of being a horrific fit next to Victor. Of course I'm not making that trade if Risacher is off the board and I'll just take Castle #4 and see who drops to #8.
https://youtu.be/ItlB7mvk888?si=dD8cce-AK63VqG9f
It does look good though.
Hard disagree my friend. Keldon is only a negative asset on this board imo. Every other fan base I interact with values him solidly.
There’s no way his value would in theory get lower than moving up 3 spots in this draft. That’s impossible. Hes a young legit nba rotation player who has proven he can score 15-20 PPg alongside working hard and being a great teammate.
He is worth so much more than moving up 3 in this draft. I’m fine trading Keldon in many scenarios but this is akin to a pure salary dump and that seems outrageous to me.
You better think Castle is the next Kawhi to do that type of deal.
I’m not trading keldon to go from 8 to 5 in a flat draft
Castle having to be the next Kawhi for this to be worthwhile is insanely overvaluing Keldon. I don't think Keldon has as much trade value as say Poeltl did when the Spurs moved him, and suspect he might get you a pick say top 10 protected in return. Castle seems a huge step up from what the team could get at #8 if they're able to take Risacher at #4.
Salary dumping Keldon (which is what trading him to move up just 3 spots in this draft is) is so far undervaluing him that it’s not even worth a conversation in reality IMO. Yes, if you are going to salary dump a legit NBA rotation player who is young and on a very fair deal then the player you are doing it for better be big time worth it.
In this draft Keldon is worth pick 5 by himself - certainly not just moving up 3 spots.
I know you're not a Castle fan so what if the scenario is Sarr, Clingan, and Castle are taken in the top 3 and you can trade up to #5 for Sheppard to pair with Risacher?I’m not trading keldon to go from 8 to 5 in a flat draft
Getting #5 for Keldon is pretty crazy, no way I could see that happening but I'd definitely be on board with it. Think you're really overvaluing him to have him worth more than 2023 Poeltl.
I think Castle will be a better pro than Keldon and in the NBA you usually win the trade if you get the best player, so I'd move Keldon to be able to draft Castle in that scenario where you can take Risacher #4.
It’s not very crazy. This is not a great draft (on paper) and Keldon is a for sure, still young, very solid NBA player. He’s proven and young and while hes not perfect he can legit help teams.
Detroit which has plenty of young guys and could still stay young could very well be interested in getting someone who can actually for sure play and be a top 7 rotation piece in lieu of taking another gamble in this draft.
Would I say it’s likely? Ehhhh, that’s too hard to say. But I will tell you the other side of the fence (DET Fans) seemed VERY excited about that trade proposal when I discuss it with them.
I get what you’re saying about wanting both those players and I think the logic of moving up to secure them in that scenario is sound. I just highly disagree that you pay that much to do it. At that point it becomes a relatively hard to justify price for the risk. Sure, if you’re right and Castle is a stud then who cares. And SA can afford to “lose” Keldon and be ok with all their cap space and extra draft capital to replace him; I just dont agree the risk reward is good there in this type of deal and that SA should be able to easily use say that top 10 CHI pick + 8 to move up and if they still want to move Keldon, they can get something much better than moving up 3 spots.
Put a legit prospect that may still have more value like Ivey in instead of Fournier? Ok, I can live with that because at least theres some upside. But Fournier makes this a literal salary dump and at that point I’d rather them just absorb Keldon straight up (which they can do since they have like 50M in cap space)
Those Detroit fans didn't watch him play. Really, there's NO chance Keldon gets you a no. 5 pick. ZERO. May dupe a casual fan who catches a few highlights here and there, but no front office with a brain does that.
Nah - too many on this board are way off on not just Keldon the player but valuations. Could Keldon net 5 on its own? I think so especially for a team like DET., but even if you don’t think so its not that far of IMO.
Even if SA had to give up CHA pick + 2 2nds along with Keldon, its somewhere in that “range”
I think I'd rather keep the Chicago pick than Keldon too. I don't think Keldon has near the trade value he would have had last summer for instance, and expect it to further diminish with another year of not really fitting this team. I don't see Detroit trading Ivey in the deal, I don't expect they'd even do Ivey for Keldon straight up much less give him and miss their shot to take say Buzelis who I doubt is there at #8. Do you see Keldon as part of this team's long term plan? I don't, so I'm more than happy to move him for someone who I think has a good chance of being a long term piece for this team.
I do. I think Keldon can clearly have a role on a more well rounded team as a legit bench spark plug. His passing improved alongside other things and as long as his 3Ball stays solid hes a damn good player overall.
Again, I have no issue trading Keldon, but salary dumping him to move up 3 spots is just outrageous to me. He would literally have to die for his value to get worse than that so Im not worried at all about another “bad” year in that regard.
So do you think you're moving Keldon a year from now and still getting a prospect as good as Castle in exchange? Or is there someone you really like who is likely to be there at 8 who you think is as good or a better prospect than Castle? I don't see Sheppard or Buzelis lasting to 8. Holland, Dillingham, and Cody Williams are definitely interesting there, but I don't know if the opportunity cost is passing on Castle. I don't want Topic unless the cost is really cheap, like he drops to the New Orleans slot and the Spurs can trade two or three seconds to take a swing on him.
It’s more that i don’t rate castle any higher really than3-4 other guys in that range alongside it being a terrible value. I like Cody & holland just as much. I think Keldon will help not only win games but that the odds of these players being way better than Keldon is 50/50. And I also think Keldon could be used for something more valuable trade wise than this. Keldon + Holland or Cody > Castle
If it were just trading Keldon for castle and you still get holland or Cody? That makes sense.
Makes sense why you would rate the #8 higher than me then. I have Castle a tier up on those guys and don't mind trading two quarters for 40 cents I guess since the 40 cents is usually more valuable than the two quarters when it comes to NBA rosters.
If we could magically throw Keldon into this draft with his current age, contract and what we’ve seen and teams could theoretically draft all of that he is easily a top 10 pick.
True but I’m saying even if I did rate castle higher I still don’t like the deal on value alone. I would trade Keldon for castle. I would not trade Keldon + 8 for Castle. What has castle shown to be worth not only a legit young nba player like Keldon but also throwing in a lottery pick?
George Hill netted pick 15 in a deal. Keldon should net similar and pick 5 is not that far off picks 10-15 in a normal draft imo
I don't think Keldon would have similar value to 2011 Hill. Back then people still remembered Hill as the guy who was a huge part of knocking off that 2-seed Mavs team in the 2010 playoffs, while Keldon kind of seems like empty stats on a bad team. Keldon's basically a replacement level player (VORP 0.2) while Hill's two seasons before the trade he had a VORP of 1.7 and 1.5. That's like Naz Reid or Jalen Johnson level production.
STers are deep in their meme bag with Keldon. There are trades where moving him makes sense. But because replacing him will cost at least what he makes, it's not the solution so many want it to be. That's even more true when you're talking about trading him away to (slightly) improve a pick rather than getting a new one.
You aren't trading Castle for Keldon. You're trading Keldon for the peace of mind knowing that you don't have to wait an extra three picks to take Castle. The Spurs shouldn't pass on Castle at 4 if they feel that strongly about him. Risacher would be nice because there is almost certainly going to be a PG at 8 that will work. But in and of himself he's just a decent wing prospect. If Castle can't be out a decent wing prospect, he's not worth trading Keldon and a top-10 pick to acquire.
But let's entertain the trade, because as I said, there are paths forward.
After this trade (and assuming the Spurs pay a team to take Graham's guaranteed money off their hands), the Spurs would have about $39.7 Million in cap space. Their depth chart would look like this:
Jones, Castle, Wesley
Vassell, Branham,
Risacher, Champangie
Sochan, Cissoko
Wembanyama, Collins, Bassey
So ... What? I guess they can try to get Monk signed to a $100M/4 deal. That leaves $16.4 Million in cap space. Then there'd be the room exception for $8 Million. So let's add O'Neale and Osman.
Jones, Castle, Wesley
Vassell, Monk, Branham
Risacher, O'Neale, Champangie
Sochan, Osman, Cissoko
Wembanyama, Collins, Bassey
It's not a bad result, but there are mock off-seasons that involve picking Sheppard, Dillingham and more. If the Spurs truly feel like there are two blue-chippers on the board at their pick, and they have a deal in place to snag both, I would trust the FO to do what they think is right. But if they're just preferable to near-equal prospects, then I don't see how you could do this trade. Just have draft discipline.
Since I'm a nice guy, allow me to be of assistance:At this nonsense again. Johnson isn't worth anything close to a 5th pick in any draft and counting stats without context in '24.
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