So I don't love this, but let's try a bit of a different off-season:
Trades:
Obligatory trade to get rid of Graham's guarantee
Draft:
At 4, Spurs select Risacher
At 8, Spurs select Salaun
At 35, Spurs select Chomche
At 48, Spurs select Shead (two-way)
Free Agency:
The Spurs trade Branham, Bassey and CHI25 for Immanuel Quickley (sign-and-trade) $120M/4
The Spurs sign Josh Richardson to $14M/2 deal with the second year not guaranteed.
The Spurs sign Tristan Newton to $5.8M/3
The Spurs signed Jesse Edwards and Jamison Battle to two-way contracts
Quickley, Jones, Wesley
Vassell, Richardson, Newton
Risacher, Johnson, Champangie
Sochan, Salaun, Cissoko
Wembanyama, Collins, Chomche
TW: Shead, Edwards, Battle
Comments:
I've never been a huge fan of Quickley, but I know a lot of folks on ST have been. Hopefully locking in a youngish PG on a below-max deal can make up for the team drafting front court players with their first three picks in one of the best PG drafts in a while. I don't love Salaun or Risacher, but it's hard to doubt the Spurs have invested at forward after this. Chomche is a wildcard, and it's may not be the best idea for him to be the third big with his inexperience, but the team has Battle as depth if need be and can shuffle their two-ways around to get more center minutes handled in a crisis. Is the upside there? Who knows? But the intrigue certainly is I fully expect Ujuri to draft Chomche at 31 if not 19, but if not, it's probably worth the gamble.
This trade gives the team a decent core of guys who are locked into affordable deals. Richardson comes back to be a good vet off the bench who seemed to love his time in SA. While they didn't get the young PG I wanted, they did bring in two high-floor prospects in Shead and Newton to compete with Wesley for what would be an open backup PG spot in 2025-2026 when Jones expires. Those guys almost work better if they sign Paul rather than Quickley. But I would only be amenable to Paul if the Spurs brought in a star vet wing like James, George, Leonard or Butler. Otherwise, I'd rather the team live within it means a bit.
As it stands, the Spurs would still have room to add a couple of guys in 2025 and would only gain more tradeable contracts with Quickley and Richardson. They remain a threat to make a huge move if the opportunity arises, but are not dependent on that type of move to start winning more games.
^ I’m of a different philosophy:
- use 2024 draft to either find good backcourt help and/or shore up the defense (read: Castle; Carter; Reed; McCain; Cody)
- find front court stopgals via free agency (Thobias; Batum) and other FA depth as needed (don’t dislike idea of Josh returning)
- cycle through Blake, Malachi, Bassey, Champ, Tre, Keldon.
- draft your wing/s of the future in 2025 when more are available.
I'm closer to this philosophy personally, but I've made like a half-dozen scenarios by this point and this was just one of them. I don't know that this draft's strength is in its wings. There are a lot of guards and bigs to choose from. At the same time, the team legit needs a starting SF and bench PF but only has limited means to do so if they don't want to create a new hole. The draft can help fill one of those holes, and then free agency could fill the other. I don't know that I would call a major free-agent signing a "stop-gap", because I don't believe the Spurs will draft/develop their entire rotation. I'd want whomever they sign to be a quality starter for 3-4 years with an absolute minimum of two years. I wouldn't put a Batum who's on the clear decline on that list just because he came alive during a play-in game.
I also think Jones and Johnson shouldn't be put into the same category as fringe rotation players. Jones was a quality rotation player last year and has now established a track record of being so. Johnson is controversial, but he's far more accomplished than those guys and was better than them at their age as well.
i usually enjoy chinook takes. lets see whats going on
Trades:
Obligatory trade to get rid of Graham's guarantee
Draft:
At 4, Spurs select Risacher
At 8, Spurs select Salaun
At 35, Spurs select Chomche
At 48, Spurs select Shead (two-way)
Free Agency:
The Spurs trade Branham, Bassey and CHI25 for Immanuel Quickley (sign-and-trade) $120M/4
The Spurs sign Josh Richardson to $14M/2 deal with the second year not guaranteed.
The Spurs sign Tristan Newton to $5.8M/3
The Spurs signed Jesse Edwards and Jamison Battle to two-way contracts
Quickley, Jones, Wesley
Vassell, Richardson, Newton
Risacher, Johnson, Champangie
Sochan, Salaun, Cissoko
Wembanyama, Collins, Chomche
TW: Shead, Edwards, Battle
between IQ/Risacher/Richardson its hard not to like this in the aggregate, even though im not a fan of all the moves, particularly salaun, chomche... nor am i at all intrigued by newton.Comments:
I've never been a huge fan of Quickley, but I know a lot of folks on ST have been. Hopefully locking in a youngish PG on a below-max deal can make up for the team drafting front court players with their first three picks in one of the best PG drafts in a while. I don't love Salaun or Risacher, but it's hard to doubt the Spurs have invested at forward after this. Chomche is a wildcard, and it's may not be the best idea for him to be the third big with his inexperience, but the team has Battle as depth if need be and can shuffle their two-ways around to get more center minutes handled in a crisis. Is the upside there? Who knows? But the intrigue certainly is I fully expect Ujuri to draft Chomche at 31 if not 19, but if not, it's probably worth the gamble.
This trade gives the team a decent core of guys who are locked into affordable deals. Richardson comes back to be a good vet off the bench who seemed to love his time in SA. While they didn't get the young PG I wanted, they did bring in two high-floor prospects in Shead and Newton to compete with Wesley for what would be an open backup PG spot in 2025-2026 when Jones expires. Those guys almost work better if they sign Paul rather than Quickley. But I would only be amenable to Paul if the Spurs brought in a star vet wing like James, George, Leonard or Butler. Otherwise, I'd rather the team live within it means a bit.
As it stands, the Spurs would still have room to add a couple of guys in 2025 and would only gain more tradeable contracts with Quickley and Richardson. They remain a threat to make a huge move if the opportunity arises, but are not dependent on that type of move to start winning more games.
several tangible improvements, IQ can be around for a while, and the only future pick we give up to get it done is the protected pick which seems unlikely to convey next year at this point? still have ammo to remain flexible if some of the moves dont work out
Last edited by spurraider21; 06-22-2024 at 11:49 PM.
I call this the rookie wave off season:
Take Risacher or Castle at 4
Trade Keldon + CHI pick for 5 and take Risacher or Castle
Take Carter at 8
See if NO truly wants to trade 21 for seconds and give them 35 + their own 2nds back and take Ja’Kobe as your new 6th man heater type (which also allows you to move Tre Jone if you need to for something of more value later)
Fully re-worked back court that pushes Branham/Blake out competency along with waiving Graham and draft Keldon replacement but that actually fits as a starter better due to shooting/size/defense
You also now have about 34M-ish in cap space since DET absorbs all of Keldons money and you put pick 5 salary slot in his place.
Take that money and go for OG?
Re-sign Mamu for depth.
Castle / Tre / Ja’Kobe
Vassell / Carter
OG / Champagnie
Sochan / Risacher / Mamu
Wemby / Collins / Bassey
You retain all of your own picks in this scenario along with all the ATL picks and other swaps SA has. You swap Keldon money + 15M for OG and get your longer term Keldon replacement in Risacher.
So question becomes would you rather have Keldon (19M) + maybe someone like Tobias Harris (15M) or just OG (34M)? I probably would rather have OG knowing that if injures happened you could slot Risascher in as a starter
Even if you cant land OG, Im still fine doing the 4 rookies and just starting Risacher and Spurs are now greatly positioned to still make trades with their picks and ability to absorb deals etc..or will be big players in next free agency.
Last edited by DPG21920; 06-23-2024 at 12:49 AM.
I keep thinking back to my idea of a young talented PG and a vet wing who help handle the play-making duties. Seeing SR21's combination of elation and disgust encouraged me to make another mock off-season.
Trades:
None:
Draft:
At 4, the Spurs draft Sheppard
At 8, the Spurs draft Williams
At 35, the Spurs draft Mitc
At 48, the Spurs draft Ajinca (two-way or stash)
Free Agency:
Graham (guaranteed), Branham, Bassey (guaranteed), CHI25 and Chicago's second-round pick for DeMar DeRozan (sign-and-trade) at $81M/3 with the last year non-guaranteed.
The Spurs sign Josh Richardson to a $22M/3 deal (using part of the MLE) with a team option for the final season.
The Spurs sign Xavier Tillman to a $12M/2 deal (using remainder of the MLE) with a team option for the second year
Final Roster:
Sheppard, Jones, Wesley
Vassell, Richardson, Mitc
Williams, Johnson, Champangie
DeRozan, Sochan, Cissoko
Wembanyama, Collins, Tillman
Comments:
Whether you think DMDR or Williams is the PF or SF, I don't care. Unless Jeremy comes with a much improved ability to space the floor, I don't think he and DeRozan work well together, but I actually like the fit with DeRozan being there to provide vertical pressure and help Sheppard run the offense while Williams and Vassell hold down the wings. Wemby would have three PnR partners and plenty of spacing around him even if DeRozan means it's not perfect. I'd worry about the defense, especially by replacing Sochan with DMDR, but hopefully Sheppard and Williams offset that. By all accounts, DeRozan is a tremendous mentor and locker-room presence. He's never shown to be a contending player, but either he'll adjust to being a contributor on a team with a clear superstar who isn't him, or his stint will only last for two seasons. Richardson is another familiar face who should help stabilize a second unit which actually has a lot of talent and may just need the time and run to take advantage of it. Tillman is expensive insurance, but his contract allow the Spurs to keep their trade options open.
I wish there was a more obvious choice to start at PF than Williams. That's the weakest part of this roster. If the Spurs could get Middleton or build a time machine to bring in 32-year-old Nic Batum, it would be much easier to build a rotation that could both challenge for a playoff birth next season and continue to develop key prospects. Sochan is talented, but he's not good enough to where the team can put starting him as a core part of their roster build. I don't love Williams as the guy to replace Jeremy in the first unit, but I don't love any player projected to drafted around 8 to do that. The middle of the draft has Holmes, Smith, Klintman, Mogbo and Ingram. The Spurs have 35 but shouldn't be looking for a starter there. If we're being honestly, Pop would probably start Jones, Vassell, DeRozan, Sochan and Wemby for 30 games despite the bad spacing turning winnable games into losses before benching Vassell for Champangie for a few more games and finally moving first Jones and then Sochan to the bench around the ASB. But the actual season mechanics are for a different thread.
Last edited by Chinook; 06-23-2024 at 02:43 PM.
Castle at 4, Carter at 8.
Trade Keldon, Tre and FRP’s for Markkanen if he’s available
Castle, Carter, Vassell, Markkanen, Wemby
I just really cant see going back to the DeRozan well…what about in this scenario if instead of going DeRozan, SA opts for a trade and grabs Jerami Grant? Take that same package you are offering for DeRozan (can change up some of course, but hypothetically if it took somewhat similar) and get Grant instead?
The Spurs would need to send out $22,293,104 to match Grant. That's a much harder ask than then $18, 367, 920 they're sending out in the DeRozan deal. That would mean adding two more cheap players or swapping in a rotation player. It's a much bigger talent drain for what I would consider to be a worse player and worse contract. Grant is signed for four more years rather than DeRozan's two, which is a negative in this case. The previous scenario basically gave the Spurs a reset button in 2026 with DeRozan's, Richardson's, Collins', Sochan's and Wesley's deals all expiring or having options. Having Grant instead with $70 Million left on his contract is much more restricting.
I've never hated Grant, and still don't. But it's not a minor swap to add him in. It would require a completely different type of off-season, one where the Spurs feel they have a team they could more strongly commit to for four years rather than the transitional/developmental roster this scenario proposed. If you're one of those people wanting to trade for Cunningham and maxing him, for example, then maybe you use some of the salary difference to bring in Grant. I might try a mock off-season built around that. We've still got a few days to kill before a lot of hypotheticals get rendered moot.
Not my top choices but reasonable picks,
A+ here, would also consider Pacome Dadiet, Cam Christie or Justin Edwards at 35, and Antonio Reeves or KJ Simpson at 48.
Hate this, you're basically paying Chicago back what they originally sent for DDR. I'm not opposed to trading the pick, but would prefer to use it on younger players who raise the team's ceiling beyond next season, rather than its immediate floor.
Players sound like a sensible choice, but I wouldn't commit to salary beyond '25, that class looks juicy and, though the Spurs may come out empty handed, it's still worth trying. So I'd rather overpay for 1 year deals, or offer 2 year deals with 2nd year team option.
I'm actually pretty good with that. The only part I see differently is giving Chicago back their 1st for dmr since he's a FA. I'd probably want them to take Collins in that scenario and adjust to his numbers. The fit of dmr and Sheppard is pretty good though and gives Reed a chance to adjust to playing Pg at this level.
Chinook has been putting in the work in this thread. Love it.
The Spurs' ceiling is based on Wemby's development. He's the pole in the center of the tent. The goal of these next two years is to develop as many players into quality pieces as possible. Young guys who are still being paid for how good they're "supposed to become" are exactly what the team doesn't need to spend assets on yet. Too often people want the Spurs to pay premium prices for guys who can't get their teams out of the lottery, and they use the excuse of them being able to grow with Wemby to justify it. Victor doesn't need classmates. He needs teachers and other vets who know how to do their jobs. When he grows into himself more, then you can start bringing in disciples to follow him. It's much more efficient in terms of money and assets to do it that way as well.
I don't see 2025 as all that appealing, especially once you factor in the extensions that will fall into place. I've talked before about how preserving cap space is very taxing on the talent level of a roster. The Spurs would have to choose to make that sacrifice to be able to have a max slot available just as they currently have to sacrifice a moderate amount to create any decent chunk of space this summer. That's not nearly as difficult in 2026, when Collins and the 2022 draftees expire and Keldon/Vassell are at the low points in their contracts. 2026 is a much stronger vet class, and more importantly the Spurs will have a much better idea about how far their core players can take them. They aren't likely to get a ton of clarity about that this season where guys are trying to settle into new roles.Players sound like a sensible choice, but I wouldn't commit to salary beyond '25, that class looks juicy and, though the Spurs may come out empty handed, it's still worth trying. So I'd rather overpay for 1 year deals, or offer 2 year deals with 2nd year team option.
If the Spurs were able to convince the Bulls to take Collins and Branham instead of Graham, Branham AND Bassey, it would actually open up cap space and the room exception rather than the MLE (and LLE, but I didn't use it in this scenario). It would also let them offer $86.5M/3, with that extra bit in the first two years increasing the likelihood they could get away with the final year being mostly non-guaranteed. Then sign someone like Mo Wanger to something like $49M/3 with the second year being a partial guarantee to push the total guaranteed to up $20 Million and the rest and the final year being non-guaranteed. Then give the rest of the cap space to Richardson on a $21M/3 deal with the last year non-guaranteed. That would leave:
Sheppard, Jones, Wesley
Vassell, Richardson, Mitc
Williams, Johnson, Champangie
DeRozan, Sochan, Cissoko
Wembanyama, Wagner, Bassey
And they'd still have the room exception for a further trade or signing later on.
Another moonshot pre-draft scenario:
#4: Spurs draft Castle
Spurs trade #8 + #35 + a future SRP for #5 and draft Matas Buzelis
Spurs trade four SRPs to PHX for #21 and draft Tyler Smith
Spurs take Bronny James at #48 and sell his rights to LAL for the maximum amount allowed by the league
Spurs trade SA25 + ATL27 + SA29 + swap rights to the best of ATL/SA26 + Keldon Johnson + Tre Jones + whatever filler necessary for Cade Cunningham and Quintin Grimes
Spurs bring back KBD on some kind of minor deal
2025 Lineup:
Cade/Castle/Wesley
Vassell/Grimes/Branham
Buzelis/Champagnie/KBD
Sochan/Smith/Mamu
Wemby/Collins/Bassey
Who exactly defends in that lineup?
We'd get murdered.
And it's not like Williams in his rookie year or Demar would spread the floor.
I like that, and I like Wagner in that 2nd unit...
Williams isn't a bad defender. He lacks strength, but that's basically the one thing on defense DeRozan doesn't lack, and among the few NBA-level skills that seem like they'll be there in year one for Williams is his shooting. But no doubt he's not a ready-made fit.
I'm obviously heavily against the idea of bringing Demar back, but if we were to, we'd need the other forward to be 3-D ready contributor right away.
While we're at 3-D obviously really hard to acquire such players these days.
Everyone keeps talking about Bridges, but I'd be interested in Cam Johnson if he can be had for cheap and Spurs don't draft Risacher. Even DFS would be interesting.
And I'd definitely go for MPJ if he becomes available due to Denver's cap situation.
I would love Cade here man, truly, but they’re about to extend him to a max and make him the face of that team as it hits the reset button.
I do think there will be a number of teams (PELs said as much) that would sell a late FRP for several future SRPs. Honestly I haven’t been focused on that part of the first round this year, but who stands out? Would have to be someone who unexpectedly falls right (eg, a McCain, Furphy, Bub)?
The Spurs would have a first-level max slot available during that series of moves if they time the transactions correctly and could get a second- or third-level slot if they could include Collins in whatever acquisition. Like they could do Sochan, Collins, CHA25 and CHI25 for George and Zubac
Cunningham, Castle, Wesley
Vassell, Grimes, Branham
George, Champangie, Bates-Diop
Smith, Buzelis, Mamukelashvili
Wembanyama, Zubac, Bassey
Or as its friends call it: Go big or go home.
I hate MPJ, and I think his teammates feel the same way. He’s the definition,of a black hole, and not particularly clutch. Go back and watch that clip where Wemby scores 17 in 3 minutes, and see how many open threes he clanked. He was also the player who got beat by Champagnie for the dunk, because he lost focus on D, and his man. His contract is also an albatross, and won’t be improved much by the new media deal. Also, the two back surgeries before age 23. He missed his entire run okie season, and played 9 games in his forth season.
Why? This isn't a roster that's trying to contend. It's a roster trying to develop their core prospects while being more respectable on the court. Having a weakness that a good team could exploit in a seven-game series doesn't really matter. What matters is in 2026 when the team is actually trying to figure out if it can contend, will Sheppard, Vassell, Williams and Wemby be stronger for having spent the previous two years with those vets? I think they would. Then you add the three-and-D forward and either let DMDR stay on as the sixth man or move on. That's assuming Sochan never figures out how to shoot and moves on in 2026 as well, but him having two years to focus on that rather than on playing PG, being the designated stopper of the first unit or any of the other high-minded ambitions he's been asked to meet should be good for him.
There's maybe five players at most (Jokic, Embiid, Antetokounmpo, Doncic, Gilgeous-Alexander), who if they play 70+ games, could take just about any roster and likely get them to the playoffs.
That's an unfair standard to apply on the rest of the league and leaves out the myriad factors of each unique situation that goes into the equation to create the context.
I hated him all the way up to last year's playoffs. I always kept talking how he doesn't know how to play basketball.
But then he made noticable improvements to his defense. Regressed back late on this year, but considering all the family he had to deal with, I respect him for even playing.
And he still torched the Lakers.
Just to be clear, I wouldn't give Nuggets anything more than Keldon, Tre and one FRP.
While his contract is an overpay, it expires before Wemby's rookie extension kicks in.
He's a 6'10 wing, shoots 40% on 7 attempts from 3pt and is a very good rebounder. All the things we need.
I'd take him as an reclamation project. No contender is obviously taking him.
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