Defense is also kinda important. How many bad defenders were there on the floor for legit contenders this year? How many of them didn't get attacked over and over again? People say Luka is fine on defense due to his size, but he did no better than Trae would on that end in the finals.
There are way more elite defenders that didn't have a shot when they came into the league than elite shooters that managed to become good defenders over the years.
Can't teach size or athleticism.
Unfortunately this draft has no two way players other than Risacher.
With that being said, my realistic ceiling for Castle would be DDR/Jimmy level passer and Jrue level scorer.
I'd take something like 18/6/6 with all-NBA level defense over a 25ppg scorer that's a traffic cone.
With that being said, if we get Castle, he can't play with Jeremy until their shots develop and we can't afford to have any other non-shooters in the rotation.
Point guard defense is extremely overrated. Now if you tell me he is our starting SG over the next decade then I’m fine with the pick. But he’s not a point guard. And he will never be an 18 6 and 6 player on our team. He just can’t score enough to be that player. It’s more realistic that he’s a 13, 3, and 3 player than Jrue Holiday at his peak.
Point of attack defense is one of the most important things. Just look at how hard Celtics made it on Luka.
Even when he got his numbers, he was gassed by 4th quarter.
He's not a point guard right now, but I don't think Pop gave up on his hybrid primary ballhandler experiment just because Jeremy couldn't do it.
Castle would definitely be way better in that role.
I dont' see why wouldn't he be able to average 6 to 7 assists.
Keldon, the player with worst case of tunnel vision ever, has been averaging 3 assists.
Devin had 4apg this season.
Obviousy. That's why there's so few all-star level players in the league.It’s more realistic that he’s a 13, 3, and 3 player than Jrue Holiday at his peak.
But his chances of becoming Jrue are way better than let's say Buzelis' chances of becoming the next AK47 or Sheppard's chances of becoming the next all-time great shooter.
Yeah, POA defense is vital. We get set aflame by so many guards. Sixty by Brunson. All these guys destroy us. Whether you want to call Castle a pure PG or not isn't a big deal. The Spurs run an offense that won't depend on a ball-dominant point. He's more than good enough initiating and connecting. The whole thing with him is he goes on the top perimeter scoring threat.
I'd love for him to be half as good as Jrue. That'd be phenomenal.
But here I'll point out he was a better player than Jrue in college:
https://tankathon.com/players/compar...--jrue-holiday
He roundly beats him nearly everywhere. Except for steals, although UConn depressed steals as a team. And three point percentage, but both shot so few the variance is pretty high. Castle has Jrue everywhere else including advanced stats. Obviously those don't always translate... but what gets me about Castle's advanced stats is how his Offensive Win Shares almost always beat similar players. He was a strong offensive player despite not being a deep threat.
I hated DAF's idea of trading down 1 for 2. Do that with 4 and 8 and Castle, Risacher, Carter are off the board and you're looking at more like four of the JaKobe, McCain, Collier, Edey tier of picks. That would be a mess.
Ya this would only happen if 2 of Reed castle Risacher are available when 4 comes around. If that happens then you swing the deal for 5. Pick 8 in this scenario is independent since you have that already. Then you only do pick 21 deal if Ja’Kobe is actually there or a guy you like. But doing the pick 5 deal is themain thing to ensure Reed/Castle or Castle/Risacher etc & you still get pick 8 for Carter or Cody or Holland etc
I don’t like trading back unless you guarantee one of your guys on the board still
POA defense is only bad bc literally the whole roster is bad at it except Wemby. Vassell is out of position, KJ watches, Sochan over rotates, Champ watches too. Having Castle isn’t going to magically change POA defense like you think it will. The opposing team will set a screen on Castle and then all of our other players will still be out of position, over rotate, not pay attention, gamble for no reason, etc etc and it doesn’t fix anything. That’s why Castle would have to be a SG on defense for anything to improve bc once again PG defense doesn’t matter comparatively. They get screened all the time.
So if Castle is our SG then it changes things and I’m okay with drafting him. We can atleast have one side of the floor that we don’t have to worry about whether the player is in position. Makes corner 3s less likely on his side. But Castle should not be guarding PGs until crunch time. I also think yall really underestimate the nba when players can’t shoot. It’s hard for them on offense. He isn’t going to be an 18 ppg player
One player can't magically fix the entire team, but if Wemby is your PNR defense partner, it's way easier to recover back to your man.
And it's not like elite defenders don't go over screens.
You're making it sound like Castle wouldn't be a massive defensive upgrade over Tre or Sheppard.
Imo, he'd be starting at SF early on. We had Champ starting there in most games, he's a definitive upgrade.So if Castle is our SG then it changes things and I’m okay with drafting him. We can atleast have one side of the floor that we don’t have to worry about whether the player is in position. Makes corner 3s less likely on his side. But Castle should not be guarding PGs until crunch time. I also think yall really underestimate the nba when players can’t shoot. It’s hard for them on offense. He isn’t going to be an 18 ppg player
Obviously, it would be one of him or Jeremy on the floor, can't have both.
He can't shoot right now, I didn't say he'd average 18ppg in his rookie year. Or even during his rookie contract.
But he could get there. Many players have.
To me he's not a worse shooter or playmaker than rookie Dejounte was.
And it's obviously not a guarantee. It's a really difficult draft to get the right picks, but Castle seems like the safest bet that still has enough upside.
We basically agree on Castle. Neither one of us thinks he can shoot. Neither one thinks he should be PG. Both of us think he is a hard worker and smart. Where we differ though is how effective he will be on defense. People here make it seem like he will one day be all nba defense and I just don’t think so. That’s really the only difference between our opinions.
That being said I didn’t mean he would average 18 6 and 6 for his rookie year
I just meant for the Spurs he better not average that or else it means he is stat padding on a bad team.
The fact Derrick Jones Jr. stayed on the floor more than Tim Hardaway Jr. in this year’s finals says a lot lol
FYI, here is the view from DC bloggers on their draft. Basically, if Sarr isn’t there at 2, Castle is the popular choice.
https://www.google.com/search?q=will...UPYRqreEQ,st:0
Imagine this scenario:
Sarr goes 1 to ATL
Castle goes 2 to WAS
Reed goes 3 to HOU
At that point it feels like Risacher is easily the choice right? Im guessing that Spurs really hope to have the choice of 2 of Castle/Risacher/Reed just have to see if it breaks that way. ATL taking Clingan is the most likely path to Castle being there for SA.
Personally I'd try to take and trade down with Clingan.
That would suck. I think I’ll be disappointed if we don’t get either Castle or Sheppard at 4, regardless of what else happens (assuming we don’t get either some other wacky way).
The right pick for Washington if Sarr goes one is to either go Clingan or Castle. I mean, Risacher has no business being selected top 4. I can see Detroit taking him, but they may have better options. This would suck, but it's the smart play and might be what we see.
It's a crap shoot, even if we knew where every player is going. I'm hoping Risacher is the man, and that he delivers, but he could easily be far down the actual PATFO's board. Even after it's all said and done, I think we'll be arguing all summer about whether it was the right choices or not. Fun time to be a Spurs fan, terrible season withstanding.
Interesting scenario. I wonder in this case if you can't get CHA and MEM duking it out to move up to 4 for Clingan. If you can drop only to 6, it might be pretty nice as you'd pick up (some) asset and you'd still have whatever's left between Risacher and Buzelis at 6.
I’d want Charlotte to take the protections on their first rounder way down, if possible.
IMO, that's a bit of a bold ask unless you've got MEM on the line willing to cough up a FRP themselves. If you drop down to 9 and pick up an additional FRP, Carter/Salaun or Carter/Knecht become the most likely scenarios in my opinion.
Ya - who knows. As of now I would feel pretty crappy leaving draft without one of Castle or Reed. I am more ok with a range of wings (Risacher, Cody, Buzelis, Holland) than I am with guards outside of maybe Carter at 8.
I’d honestly rather take Risacher and see if we can trade 8+a heavily protected first for 5 and just draft Clingan?
Interesting to game out I suppose. Going down to 6 and guessing Detroit takes Risacher, I'd probably take Buzelis, then Carter/Dillingham at 8.
Dropping down to 8, so having that and 9... Yeesh. It gets fairly bad. I don't think I can take both Carter and Dillingham but the players I want are pretty much gone. I probably go Carter and Cody Williams, but I leave the draft pretty disappointed. Maybe I'm hinging too much on getting Castle. I don't really like most of the wings.
I guess... Carter and then Topic with 9. Then I work the back end of the first round and try to move in and get a straggling wing with some promise like K George or Furphy. Leave Topic overseas for a year.
Seems like Castle is some kind of bizzaro world version of M. Smart. Seems he’d be an elite glue guy who might be able to eventually shoot well enough to not be a liability.
Vs.
Sheppard who’s a cross between a wannabe Stockton or smaller version of Reaves who everyone here wanted to give 80+ million to.
Castle has more flexibility between the two and the talk of Castle solely desiring the PG spot could probably be mitigated if he becomes a guy who routinely has the ball run through. I don’t think that means he has to be on ball. Just that he can be facilitator without having to be a flashy on ball pg.
Castle can definitely feed the post.
If Wash drafts Castle at 2 would you offer 4 and 8 to Wash for 2?
No, but would see what else it would take. My guess is they took him because they liked him, though, so won't want to trade him.
That's why it'll cost you something like the 4 and 8 to get him. I'm not high on any player at 8.
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