Stick to my original point and stop attempting to twist it. I said pretty sad when we are totally getting a hard on about Jackie Butler as our possible big aquisition this year. What has Butler done? Oh he's young. Last time I checked that doesn't cons ute being a good player. By the way have you seen Jackie play if so when and how many points and rebounds did he have.
Those are some really strong points you made:
a.) "Chance" to improve at the position. I could say that about anybody the spurs signed.
b.) He is young. Does that mean good player?
c.) have guys that will actually be in the rotation in the playoffs. I have a feeling if Nazr couldn't get in their, Jackie wouldn't have either. The spurs chose to go smaller and quicker. Don't think Jackie's nickname is Air Jackie.
what has narz done though??? he wasn't that big in the finals, maybe in the playoffs but he didn't do much in the finals that made an impact on the game...butler has hands, that's the reason nazr didn't play, he couldn't hang on to anything. butler will be an upgrade over rasho and narz. narz had good games but is a re , who the f'k pump fakes just to pump fake??? butler ain't that stupid
Who says Jackie has good hands? You do. What are you basing this on? He had the same amount of turnovers playing 4 minutes less a game last year as Nazr did. Detroit apparently doesn't agree with you at all. How many teams again were knocking down Jackie's door saying come play for us please? This to me is a sign of we are running out of options and better get a big man. Again my original point was this is pretty sad when this is the most exciting thing to talk about in the offseason. I was referring to over 500 posts to this thread.
Everyone says he has good hands. It's one of the main things you notice if you watch him play. He catches everything thrown to him. Look on any scouting reports.Who says Jackie has good hands? You do. What are you basing this on? He had the same amount of turnovers playing 4 minutes less a game last year as Nazr did. Detroit apparently doesn't agree with you at all.
Several teams were after him. He even turned down an offer sheet from another team for more money to sign the Spurs offer sheet.How many teams again were knocking down Jackie's door saying come play for us please? This to me is a sign of we are running out of options and better get a big man. Again my original point was this is pretty sad when this is the most exciting thing to talk about in the offseason. I was referring to over 500 posts to this thread.
nazr is this you???? every report i've read on this dude says he has very good hands, he may have the same amount of turnovers in ny but you got to take into account who is passing him the ball, parker and beno are 349587 times better passer then marbury and whoever the they use at point. like kori said in the post above this one is that he turned down more money to try to come here so obviously ppl wanted him.
So Bruce Bowen is Euro too, because he played in France, and Kobe too because he grow up in Italy
And now, Manu is Northamerican because he play in the Spurs, and Hakeem Olajuwon too, because he played in the Dream Team
Manu´s style of play is from southamerica, like Nocioni
I never saw an euro player with the style of Manu
Except you wouldn't, because Elson and Butler could be a significant upgrade for less money and virtually no risk. Nazr wasn't going to be more than he ever was, and did I mention he cost four times as much for a five year commitment?
"Good player" means good player. By the way, he's a good player, with a chance to be a great player, like Manu or Parker did, for less money and virtually no risk. And did I mention...oh yeah, I did.
He and Elson are quicker than Nazr and Rasho plus the Spurs freed up enough money and a spot to bring Mahinmi over and get a couple of prospects for an athletic defensive three plus a veteran to back up Bowen. Again, you just have no argument here. You can always hope Butler bombs out so you can come in here and give me a big "I told you so". That's about the best you can do.
Scola dug his own hole taking a ridiculous contract. His Euro team has been reasonably clever to set their buyout just low enough not to look bad, but high enough to discourage the Spurs. Somehow his Euro team is never mentioned much as a bad guy in this story.
Javtokas is not going to get than more than the LLE in his first contract. Certainly not a lot more, especially post-accident.
Good lord, will you ing let it go already? You've already been proven wrong, stop dragging it out.
Hey obstructed view pull your head out and maybe you can see clearly, you are the king of changing around and not keeping on the damn subject. You are the one who came at me and twisted the living out of what I was saying. You keep changing such as adding Elson to try to back up your point about quickness. I never mentioned Elson. I am talking about Butler. Is Jackie Fatass fast? So leave that part out. A couple of you keep trying to sneak by that Butler is better. I just don't know what in the you are basing that on. Who that matters really thinks that. What has Butler done? Oh yeah he is young. I am not hoping that Butler bombs. I hope the he does well. I want the spurs to do well. I just get tired of hearing that Jackie is better. That is the most uneducated bull I have ever heard. What teams were interested in Jackie. WHO? Answer me. WHO? Team Obstructed View was. Well that makes me sleep better at night. Again the point I am very clearly making there have been a tremendous amount of posts about Jackie and about how he alot of potential and going to be good and we are better off now if we get him. Who that matters thinks that. Where can outside of this forum can you find me this belief.
Oh yeah. I read that his agent said that he turned down a more lucrative offer to go with the spurs. Again that is his agent that said this. I put agents up there with used car salesmen when it comes to trust. I hear about other players and rumors of specific teams that were after there services but when it comes to Jackie no specifics. Is this just rumor started by the agent? Again has he proven that he can play in the NBA. Yes. Is he going to be a good player? I hope so. But for right now there is nothing that we can base it on to get too excited about. If he was truly that good I would think that the spurs would have offered much more and split it with Elson to ensure that the Knicks would not match. Again just my original post was making a response to over 500 posts to this thread about Butler and good he is.
Scola signed his contract when he was 17-18 years, in this contract the buyout changes if he was selected in the Draft with differents values, but the clause only talk about a 1st Round Picks and not a secound round
When you are young and someone offer you a couple of millions, you are going to sign a contract with stupid buyout and other things too
The last argentinien signed of tha TAU is Matias Nocedal, who signed with only 16 years a 8 years contract, for only 3 millions
3 Millions is a lot of money for a young player, and he is going to sign where ever the you tell him to sign
Like you can see, Scola signed his contract with the Tau in 1997 for 10 seasonsLa puerta se abrió con Gaby Díaz y Walter Guińazú a inicios de los 90. Luego llegaron Nicola y Espil. Tau Cerámica terminó de convertirse en la sucursal argentina cuando, en el 2002, ganó la Copa del Rey con Scola, Nocioni, Oberto, Sconochini y Gaby Fernández. Ahora están Scola y Prigioni, pero ya se aseguraron a otro: Matías Nocedal, una de las mayores promesas argentinas. El pibe de 16 ańos, un base de 1m90, cerró un acuerdo por ocho ańos. Parecido al de Scola en 1997 (por diez ańos). El pibe seguirá en Argentino de Castelar pero en Europa ya tiene dueńo.
I find this ironic-- people keep saying New York won't match because they won't want to spend that much money on a third string guy- but then that same third-string guy is somehow so superior to Nazr and Rasho. Wouldn't he have played more if he was that good. Now don't get me wrong, those who see POTENTIAL in him I understand, but that is not the same thing as being claimed.
you keep saying what has butler done, but what has nazr ever done??? his stone hands is what kept him out of the line up against the mavs, butler at least has hands. nazr was not a huge part to our championship, he was a nice addition but he isn't the reason we won. we would've won with malik too. and at least butler has room to improve, nazr is stuck in his pointless pump faking, hands that make malik look like an all pro wide reciever, can't rotate on D ways, and won't improve. butler can and will improve with the spurs if he isn't matched
curry is better then butler now
butler is not going to be great next year
he needs time to get better
if people think he is going to be great next year they are mistaken
Last year he was ahead of Jerome James, who signed for a max midlevel deal.
He was behind Frye, who was a lottery pick and one of the best rookies in the league. Both players played well. To this point, Frye is definitely a better defender.
He was behind Eddy Curry who signed a $60 million contract, but was much more effective than Curry.
If these players were all up for free agency, you would let Jerome James walk, do whatever you could to keep Frye and Butler, and lowball Curry or replace him with a free agent. But the Knicks not only have two untradeable contracts on their books, Zeke has to demonstrate that Curry and James were smart signings. So that means Butler is the odd man out.
Butler was in essense the second string center and first string when it came to the fourth quarter. Now I'm not expecting Butler or Elson to be great next year if we get them and I don't think that the Spurs expect that either. I haven't expected much out of the center position since DRob retired. All I wanted to see was somebody that was mobile, could rebound and get out of Tim's way when he is trying to get position. Neither Rasho or Nazr were that. Rasho had the mobility of a snail and Nazr was always out of position. And neither did much damage on the boards unless we were playing the Suns.
To be honest I see Butler and Elson as slight improvements because they bring different aspects to the table that Nazr and Rasho just didn't have. I like players that had to go through alternative routes to get to the league because they are usually the ones that will fight the hardest when they get on the court. I'm sorry but thats just me. Who knows maybe Butler does become something next year if the Knicks don't match based on the simple fact that SA doesn't have the amount of distractions that NY has.
I may be one of the few optimist on this board but I feel like this is gonna be a good year based on more than just us getting a center. To me the roster looks the same but with a rested Tim and Manu possibly returning to all star form and Parker improving everyday this could be another Championship year. remember the last time we got a Knick center on the cheap?
nazr was always is the way
rasho atleast could set a pick
butler and elson need to set a pick and get out of manu,tp duncan way
I still haven't figured out what this past day's argument is about.
Okay, here's the "damn subject":
So far, you have disbelieved people here who have seen him play, the scouting reports about him, his agent, the Spurs front office, Larry Brown, Gregg Popovich, and whoever else thinks he has potential just so you can call him "Jackie Fatass" and heaped scorn upon anyone who thinks it's a good potential upgrade at the center position from Nazr for millions less than keeping Nazr. It sounds like nothing is going to convince you that he's got any potential.
I love that you base a player's value on a.) what he's already done b.) how old he is and c) if anyone else wanted him first. Not surprising since you seem to want to have paid max money to Nazr for the next five years or offered huge money to a big time free agent for a team that's already over the cap. The way you find young talent is you take risks. Nobody knows for sure what he's going to turn into, but you want ing guarantees. Guess what? The only guarantee would have been on Nazr's contract for the next five years. Time for plan B. We are discussing it. Get the over it.
By the way, if you want to base judgments on a player's resume, Nazr has a bigger history of weight problems than Jackie Fatass does.
Since Pop didn't have the confidence to put Nazr or Rasho in the games when it mattered most, could Butler really be worse than nothing? I don't really see how.
Cliffs Notes version:
The front office sucks, they should have signed a big time free agent. Woe is us. We aren't making any moves. We are wasting Tim Duncan's prime. Holt is a cheap ass. Jackie Butler is fat.
Sound familiar?
Yeah, but Nazr?
Someone misses that dude?
He's done stuff before.
Sorry if it has already been asked before but when is the exact deadline for the Knicks to match the offer?
Thursday, I'm not sure the time.
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