There is Markannen to Spurs Buzz

[4lifecowboy]

Spurs just need to indicate to his agent that they plan to sign him next summer and then he won't sign any extension and by not signing extension he push Utah to trade him to Spurs at lower price

Exactly, I'm not giving up 5 draft picks for someone I could get for free in a year. 2 max and they are not going to be ATL's nor ours. Lauri needs better representation if he going to let Utah sell him to the highest bidder.

[vy65]

I don't understand why people think that Lauri is going to be available as a FA in a year. It's in his interest to work with Utah to either secure an extension with them (not too likely imo) or to facilitate a trade to a destination where he would be willing to sign an extension. In neither of those scenarios is he going to test the FA market. From my (limited) understanding of the CBA, him testing the FA market will cost him a significant chunk of change. It would be more in his interest to agree to an extension with Utah and then try to push his way out in a year or two's time a la Harden, Kawhi, etc...

[Mr. Body]

I don't understand why people think that Lauri is going to be available as a FA in a year. It's in his interest to work with Utah to either secure an extension with them (not too likely imo) or to facilitate a trade to a destination where he would be willing to sign an extension. In neither of those scenarios is he going to test the FA market. From my (limited) understanding of the CBA, him testing the FA market will cost him a significant chunk of change. It would be more in his interest to agree to an extension with Utah and then try to push his way out in a year or two's time a la Harden, Kawhi, etc...

So when he's 29? He's gonna get stuck in Utah. Probably fine with him, as I don't think we've ever heard him actually wanting to be compe ive. Rich and in a cold climate might be fine with him.

[kobyz]

I don't understand why people think that Lauri is going to be available as a FA in a year. It's in his interest to work with Utah to either secure an extension with them (not too likely imo) or to facilitate a trade to a destination where he would be willing to sign an extension. In neither of those scenarios is he going to test the FA market. From my (limited) understanding of the CBA, him testing the FA market will cost him a significant chunk of change. It would be more in his interest to agree to an extension with Utah and then try to push his way out in a year or two's time a la Harden, Kawhi, etc...

He wants to find a good situation for him and that is the Spurs, it's not reasonable for him to sign extension with a team who trade for him other than the Spurs

[BacktoBasics]

This guys next contract feels like the kinda contract you give a guy who should be the 2nd option that propels you to a championship but falls short and becomes difficult to move or come off of.

[Mr. Body]

Here's the thing with Lauri Markkanen...

For his entire career he's fluctuated between playing 50 and 66 games a year, with most of them closer to 50 and 52. Sure, Ainge may have forced Hardy to sit him for the tank last year, but he still only played 55 games. But that's not the thing.

He's on an expiring contract and can be had via free agency next year. Sure, he may want to max out with the Jazz, at which point he's maybe even less valuable in terms of what it would take to acquire him (assets, not salary). But then a maxed Lauri is questionable value. But that's not the thing.

He's never been in the playoffs. When he was in Chicago, they were bad. When they moved him, boom, playoffs. Cavaliers were bad with him. Next year when he was gone, boom, playoffs. Sure, that's not entirely his fault, but he don't impact winning, does he? But that's not the thing.

Here's the thing. At Chicago and Cleveland, he was around 14.8 ppg 5.7 rpg. (He was actually getting worse from earlier in his career.) At Utah, he is around 23.2 ppg and 8.2 rpg. What changed? Minutes went up and takes way more shots, about 2 more threes a game and 5 more twos a game. His shooting percentages have remained the same.

THAT is the thing. He turned into a single year All-Star (not last year) because his volume and usage went way up. He was still the same player, just more of it. On an actual contending team, one hoping for playoff runs, he's not getting the same amount of #1 option run. He's going back to those 14 ppg 5 rpg numbers. At best. With poor defense and bad assist rates.

He is VERY similar to Dejounte in getting a reserve All-Star appearance on the back of high stats on a terrible team, then becoming mediocre when he had to play alongside a better player.

Do you want to trade a lot of assets and pay $45 million a year for a guy who is getting you 14 ppg and 5 rpg? I don't.

[Kevin]

I love how people hold a lack of winning against other teams players yet somehow this criticism never applies to Spurs players. Keldon and Dev have won exactly squat and it doesn't negatively impact their value whatsoever. This 'he's never won anything' criticism was used against Trae Young as well as Lauri. The double standard is fascinating because Trea and Lauri are objectively better players who have objective won more games than Keldon and Dev.

'But Dev and Keldon played on bad teams so its not their fault' yet another double standard.

[Mugen]

Lauri has had a good coach the last few years while Devin/Keldon play for one of the worst ones in the league. So I do think that's a valid knock against Lauri tbh.

[Mr. Body]

I love how people hold a lack of winning against other teams players yet somehow this criticism never applies to Spurs players. Keldon and Dev have won exactly squat and it doesn't negatively impact their value whatsoever. This 'he's never won anything' criticism was used against Trae Young as well as Lauri. The double standard is fascinating because Trea and Lauri are objectively better players who have objective won more games than Keldon and Dev.

'But Dev and Keldon played on bad teams so its not their fault' yet another double standard.

If we were talking about trading multiple picks for Keldon or Dev, then you'd have a point.

[Mr. Body]

And then I literally say in my post that him not factoring into winning is NOT the point I'm making.

[objective]

Locked on Jazz today was just speculating on what kind of offers from Golden State or San Antonio would be "might have to take" kind of deals that the Jazz might not be able to say 'no' to.

The Spurs side? Vassell and 4 first round picks

Just nonsense, drastic overpay that shouldn't even cross the Spurs minds

[R. DeMurre]

Here's the thing with Lauri Markkanen...

For his entire career he's fluctuated between playing 50 and 66 games a year, with most of them closer to 50 and 52. Sure, Ainge may have forced Hardy to sit him for the tank last year, but he still only played 55 games. But that's not the thing.

He's on an expiring contract and can be had via free agency next year. Sure, he may want to max out with the Jazz, at which point he's maybe even less valuable in terms of what it would take to acquire him (assets, not salary). But then a maxed Lauri is questionable value. But that's not the thing.

He's never been in the playoffs. When he was in Chicago, they were bad. When they moved him, boom, playoffs. Cavaliers were bad with him. Next year when he was gone, boom, playoffs. Sure, that's not entirely his fault, but he don't impact winning, does he? But that's not the thing.

Here's the thing. At Chicago and Cleveland, he was around 14.8 ppg 5.7 rpg. (He was actually getting worse from earlier in his career.) At Utah, he is around 23.2 ppg and 8.2 rpg. What changed? Minutes went up and takes way more shots, about 2 more threes a game and 5 more twos a game. His shooting percentages have remained the same.

THAT is the thing. He turned into a single year All-Star (not last year) because his volume and usage went way up. He was still the same player, just more of it. On an actual contending team, one hoping for playoff runs, he's not getting the same amount of #1 option run. He's going back to those 14 ppg 5 rpg numbers. At best. With poor defense and bad assist rates.

He is VERY similar to Dejounte in getting a reserve All-Star appearance on the back of high stats on a terrible team, then becoming mediocre when he had to play alongside a better player.

Do you want to trade a lot of assets and pay $45 million a year for a guy who is getting you 14 ppg and 5 rpg? I don't.

You're just throwing out examples with no context and constantly avoiding any facts that go against your dislike of him. I get it if you're just not a fan, but the way you argue it is so obviously disingenuous. Using your approach, I could say that Cleveland had 22 wins in '21 and 44 wins in '22, which was the only year Markkanen was in Cleveland. If you gave an honest assessment of his positives and negatives and then concluded that the negatives were more numerous, I'd respectfully disagree, but instead you're the unobjective guy who says a good comp for Lauri is Gabe Vincent, which is just terrible analysis that I'm sure even you don't truly believe.

[JPB]

He wants to find a good situation for him and that is the Spurs, it's not reasonable for him to sign extension with a team who trade for him other than the Spurs

You guys

[vy65]

If we were talking about trading multiple picks for Keldon or Dev, then you'd have a point.

So you don't think Dev is worth two FRP? What about Keldon? Or Malachi or Blake? If they're not worth much, then why is PATFO doubling down on them as their "talented core?"

[LeBowen]

Here's the thing with Lauri Markkanen...

Yeah, let's see...

For his entire career he's fluctuated between playing 50 and 66 games a year, with most of them closer to 50 and 52. Sure, Ainge may have forced Hardy to sit him for the tank last year, but he still only played 55 games. But that's not the thing.

He got shut down two seasons in a row.
Before that he had arguably the most illness reports I've seen for a player and had one too many COVID protocols.
His only serious issues were back in 2018 and ankle in 2020.

He's on an expiring contract and can be had via free agency next year. Sure, he may want to max out with the Jazz, at which point he's maybe even less valuable in terms of what it would take to acquire him (assets, not salary). But then a maxed Lauri is questionable value. But that's not the thing.

No, he can't.
You can argue that he can be had for cheaper at the deadline if he refuses to extend, but he can't be had via free agency.
Out of all the GMs, Ainge is the last one who's going to allow an all-star walk.
No team will trade for him without a future deal in place. And you bet there's going to be a team that does it.

He's never been in the playoffs. When he was in Chicago, they were bad. When they moved him, boom, playoffs. Cavaliers were bad with him. Next year when he was gone, boom, playoffs. Sure, that's not entirely his fault, but he don't impact winning, does he? But that's not the thing.

Yeah, It's his fault he was coached by Jim Boylen and had a horrible team.
It's also his fault Bulls got four good players and a new coach in the off-season they traded him away.

Cavs put him in those ridiculous lineups at SF, with two non-shooting bigs. Took away his advantages on both ends of the floor.
It's not his fault he didn't have a bigger role.

You can't impact winning if you're not given the chance. He's an off ball player, he doesn't take the ball and get any shot he wants. His usage was low because coaches didn't know how to utilize him.

Here's the thing. At Chicago and Cleveland, he was around 14.8 ppg 5.7 rpg. (He was actually getting worse from earlier in his career.) At Utah, he is around 23.2 ppg and 8.2 rpg. What changed? Minutes went up and takes way more shots, about 2 more threes a game and 5 more twos a game. His shooting percentages have remained the same.

Are you really going to have this as an argument against Markkanen and not in his favor?
Who would've thought that giving more minutes and shots to a good player would result in better stats.
If a player improves his ppg by 10 without losing efficency, don't you think it was a good decision to give him a bigger role?

THAT is the thing. He turned into a single year All-Star (not last year) because his volume and usage went way up. He was still the same player, just more of it. On an actual contending team, one hoping for playoff runs, he's not getting the same amount of #1 option run. He's going back to those 14 ppg 5 rpg numbers. At best. With poor defense and bad assist rates.

Yeah, because only chuckers needs 16 shots to score 24 points.
It's such a bad thing to give 16 shots to a 7 footer shooting 40% from deep on 8 attempts.
God forbid taking the ball away from better offensive players like Jeremy Sochan.

He is VERY similar to Dejounte in getting a reserve All-Star appearance on the back of high stats on a terrible team, then becoming mediocre when he had to play alongside a better player.

You're just changing narratives and strawmanning everything the way you see it fit.
You keep talking Trae is horrible and Dejounte is mediocre, with the rest of Hawks roster being trash, how weren't they at the bottom of the conference, then?

Narratives of not impacting winning can be used against players who have enough usage to show if they can actually win games.
Kind of how Brunson never got a chance with the Mavs.

The other day I posed the stats, in his two seasons with the Jazz they're at 45% winrate with him and 32% without him.
How is that not impacting winning?

For example when Cavs replaced him with Mitc , they only got 7 more wins in the following season.

Do you want to trade a lot of assets and pay $45 million a year for a guy who is getting you 14 ppg and 5 rpg? I don't.

Honestly? You're just a moron.
A contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian.
Just think about it for a second, if the entire ing board is against you in almost every possible topic, did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe, you're the idiot and not all of us?
And when you're wrong, you just start embarrassing yourself.
You simply can't ever accept you're not right.
Markkanen trade would have some reasonable concerns, but you pushing this nonsensical narrative of trading for a 14/5 player just makes you look like a moron and invalidates every single point you're trying to make.

There's nothing worse than people who not only can't accept when they're wrong, but dig themselves even deeper with absolute nonsense that makes you look like a full blown re .
I honestly can't get over how idiotic you act.
How did you last in here for 20 years without being banned?
Any forum with decent moderation would ban a user like yourself a long time ago.

Some weeks ago when I made an in-depth post about how Jeremy's efficency is awful in every aspect of the game, you straight up had a breakdown and kept calling me an idiot.
But now you come and post this nonsense about trading for a 14/5 player.
You're going to be the first person I've ever ignored in here, you're just that dense and hopeless. If you had any self-awareness, you'd be ashamed of yourself.

[exstatic]

Yeah, I know. I meant EVERY game they played. I'm trying to think of the lowest level they could play in and might actually win.

Hyperbole. The worst ing NBA team of all time still won 9 games. With the worst defense in history, we won 22 games.

[The Truth #6]

I think they are focusing on Castle next year before making any big moves, and I don't see them making any huge trades, possibly ever. I think we all expect them to finally make a move at some point with all these assets, but I'm not holding out my breath. I think a lot of the big trades usually do backfire, so it's an inherently tough situation.

[exstatic]

I don't understand why people think that Lauri is going to be available as a FA in a year. It's in his interest to work with Utah to either secure an extension with them (not too likely imo) or to facilitate a trade to a destination where he would be willing to sign an extension. In neither of those scenarios is he going to test the FA market. From my (limited) understanding of the CBA, him testing the FA market will cost him a significant chunk of change. It would be more in his interest to agree to an extension with Utah and then try to push his way out in a year or two's time a la Harden, Kawhi, etc...

Did anyone think PG13 would ACTUALLY hit free agency this summer? The new CBA with the punitive financial aprons means that times are changing.

[vy65]

To put the absurdity of what Body is saying into light:

Devin Vassell:
Vorp: 1.1
Win Shares: 3.6
OBPM/DBPM: .9/-.9

Lauri
Vorp 2.6
Win Shares: 6.2
OBPM/DBPM: 5.1/-1.5

[vy65]

Did anyone think PG13 would ACTUALLY hit free agency this summer? The new CBA with the punitive financial aprons means that times are changing.

Yes, I think plenty thought he would once it became evident he wouldn't sign an extension with LAC

[LeBowen]

I think they are focusing on Castle next year before making any big moves, and I don't see them making any huge trades, possibly ever. I think we all expect them to finally make a move at some point with all these assets, but I'm not holding out my breath. I think a lot of the big trades usually do backfire, so it's an inherently tough situation.

The issue is that we simply need to get one good forward to stretch the floor.
Doesn't have to be Markkanen or another big name, but we need something.

I'd honestly take someone like Fontecchio, just get us reliable shooting.
Or Bogdanovic's expiring from the Nets.

I can understand not trying to win at all costs, but going into the season with yet another dysfunctional roster would be really bad.

[R. DeMurre]

The most egregious example is saying that Markkanen's stats only went up in his first year in Utah because his shots and usage rates went up, but completely ignoring the incredibly relevant fact that his efficiency also skyrocketed, with his TS% going from 58% to 64%. So your argument becomes that all he did was shoot much more at a much greater success rate-- pfft! anyone can do that!

[exstatic]

Yes, I think plenty thought he would once it became evident he wouldn't sign an extension with LAC

Last summer, one year out like Lauri is, you’d have said there was no way he’d hit FA, because that’s your mind set.

[vy65]

Last summer, one year out like Lauri is, you’d have said there was no way he’d hit FA, because that’s your mind set.

Pretty impressive you know what I would have speculated about the future a year ago

[BacktoBasics]

You're just throwing out examples with no context and constantly avoiding any facts that go against your dislike of him. I get it if you're just not a fan, but the way you argue it is so obviously disingenuous. Using your approach, I could say that Cleveland had 22 wins in '21 and 44 wins in '22, which was the only year Markkanen was in Cleveland. If you gave an honest assessment of his positives and negatives and then concluded that the negatives were more numerous, I'd respectfully disagree, but instead you're the unobjective guy who says a good comp for Lauri is Gabe Vincent, which is just terrible analysis that I'm sure even you don't truly believe.

I'll be honest. It looked like plenty of context to me. He hasn't impacted winning and statistically only improved as his usage went up on a team that was horrible and had no other offensive options to help carry the load. Will he revert back to 14 and 5 on a team like ours where Wemby and Vassell can help shoulder the load? Possibly. But he brings up the real question about paying 45 million to someone who would put up Vassell like numbers and I don't think any of us want to get into that kind of money if its not going to be going to a legitimate all star.

Its a fair argument since the guy hasn't done anything.