2024 NBA Off-Season Thread (FA, Trades, Extensions, Rumors)

[Mr. Body]

Sucks that UTA will get another pile of unprotected picks from a franch that will become a disaster soon. GSW utterly desperate. But at least GSW's picks won't get swallowed up by an OKC or someone else. No matter how many picks Ainge gobbles up, it's still Utah and a place no one wants to be.

[TD 21]

What’s not to understand? Lopez can help this team. The Spurs need a big for matchups with other true bigs (Jokic, Gobert, etc.). They also need outside shooting. They also need veteran leadership. It would also be fantastic to get off the Collins deal. I don’t know if Lopez and Vic even play that much together, but Lopez being a true stretch five makes it a lot more plausible than a horribly inconsistent Collins who also gets manhandled in the paint. Lopez certainly hasn’t clogged up the floor for Giannis. But the best part is that if it doesn’t work out they can move Lopez to a contender at the deadline and get more assets. It’s a no brainer.

I get the utility, I'm saying I don't see a team with one of the four best centers in the league, who is not exactly making a concerted effort to compete, unilaterally deciding to concern themselves with acquiring another starting center.

looks like derozan may have to settle for a one-year deal if he wants to get paid. not sure who would take him on as ballast for a season.

At the pseudo star potentially having to settle for a 1 year MLE contract and either way not getting a contract commensurate with that of a legit star.

If he's as good as so many attempt to lead others to believe, why isn't some team moving heaven and earth for him?

[Ariel]

Why would you expect Utah to value Sochan as a lottery pick? He's got some real defensive potential but is super inconsistent and a below replacement level player. That's a pretty lousy trade package for them that Golden State will likely trounce in their offer. Ainge isn't stupid, he knows the Charlotte 25 is two seconds.

Sochan just turned 21 and most young guys are inconsistent. I don't rate him lower than Dyson Daniels, for instance, who similarly went into a package for Dejounte recently (alongside 2 picks worse than these). If they don't value his upside, then you pass. I'm including him because going forward Lauri + Castle make him somewhat expendable.
As for Charlotte '25, that's more of a throw in that he can sell as another first for PR purposes, I'm not expecting him to value him as a first other than to stroke his ego a bit. 2 young players, 2 good picks plus another first (fake) and 2nds sounds reasonable for a 1 time all star that is on an expiring contract. Maybe add ONE more pick if necessary. But that's not a bad offer at all, if GSW want to throw everything but the kitchen sink, Spurs shouldn't be stupid enough to enter that fight.

[LeBowen]

You don't trade just for trading's sake.

Agreed. But Markkanen has been my pipe dream for months, it's not like I want him just because reports started now.
I might be completely wrong, but in my mind he's a perfect fit next to Wemby.

Spurs aren't contending in the next 2 years Markkanen or not.

But we aren't tanking, either.
If healthy, Wemby is guaranteed to be an MVP candidate in every single season from 25-26 onwards.

Nets, Hornets, Bulls, Pistons, Raptors, Wizards, Blazers and Jazz.
That's 8 teams more or less guaranteed to tank. I guess Hornets might finally click, but I doubt it.
There's no way we can be worse than those teams that probably won't get 30 wins unless we ruin Wemby's season by shutting him down and sitting important players every game.
After that, lottery becomes exactly that, a lottery. It's not worth having 9th best compared to 12th best odds. Yeah, someone always moves up, but those are low percentage odds.
For someone to move up, another team has to get unlucky (mostly Pistons). And we've been lucky way too many times already. Got Wemby with 14%, moved up to #4 and got the Raptors pick this year.
I don't like pushing my luck, we've had enough.

The West is brutal and we won't make the playoffs unless some of the old teams finally fall apart. Warriors, Clippers, Suns and Lakers are all close to their expiry date.
But what we can and need to do is to start actually trying. We've been in the lottery for five years.

We won't just be able to go from 25 to 55 wins in a year. We need to rebuild the winning culture and have some failures while actually trying.
Then we'll most likely fail some more when we start making playoffs.
No all-time great ever has won without failing multiple times except for the likes of Timmy, Magic and Bird who got drafted by good teams.
If you're building from the ground up, it's going to be rough. Can't teach experience.

Considering PATFO's recent draft record, I'd rather have a couple of late teens picks than mid-lottery because players develop way better when they're actually trying to win.

If there's a deal that makes sense, great. Otherwise I'd rather wait, desperate teams get ripped off every time, especially when Ainge is involved. That's the worst case scenario.

What does a rip-off even mean? For me a rip-off is when teams that can't actually get over the hump throw everything at one trade, have a short window and fail.
If we use those picks we both suggested for Markkanen, we'd still have Hawks picks and all but one of our own picks. Without losing any important players.
Could either draft another potentially great player in the next few drafts or get more quality roster pieces.

PS: If you go through the draft thread, you'll clearly see I wasn't exactly a fan of moving #8 6/7 years into the future.

I instantly thought of Markkanen trade when it happened because Ainge owns Minnesota already.

[RC_Drunkford]

their all in on Paul George was one first rounder and Wiggins. Maybe they'll offer 2 now

[LeBowen]

their all in on Paul George was one first rounder and Wiggins. Maybe they'll offer 2 now

Exactly.
Don't forget how many all-in reports from Heat and Lakers reporters we've seen over the years.
You can be all-you want-in, but if you don't have the assets, it's not happening.

[scott]

That's not true, they're more reserved than your typical franchise, absolutely, but there were lots of news coming out in the Dejounte and Poeltl trade, for instance. If you read between the lines (wording is telling), those seemed a lot more concrete than what you see now regarding Markkanen. Again, doesn't prove it won't happen, but I don't get the sense anything is imminent.

You don't trade just for trading's sake. Spurs aren't contending in the next 2 years Markkanen or not. If there's a deal that makes sense, great. Otherwise I'd rather wait, desperate teams get ripped off every time, especially when Ainge is involved. That's the worst case scenario.
PS: If you go through the draft thread, you'll clearly see I wasn't exactly a fan of moving #8 6/7 years into the future.

I agree that we shouldn't just do a dumb deal to do a dumb deal. But if we do nothing this offseason, beside just take Castle, sign CP3, and punt on #8 - then we should return to our criticism of this FO, because I agree with LeBowen that this should be considered a failure of an off-season. Certainly it's possible to fail even harder (like, sending Devin, Castle and 7 FRPs for Lauri), and we should definitely avoid that... but avoiding even worse outcomes doesn't mean it isn't a failure worth criticizing. (Also, not saying that you are suggesting this, Ariel, your comment just spurred this thought so I'm adding on).

[scott]

Agreed. But Markkanen has been my pipe dream for months, it's not like I want him just because reports started now.
I might be completely wrong, but in my mind he's a perfect fit next to Wemby.



But we aren't tanking, either.
If healthy, Wemby is guaranteed to be an MVP candidate in every single season from 25-26 onwards.

Nets, Hornets, Bulls, Pistons, Raptors, Wizards, Blazers and Jazz.
That's 8 teams more or less guaranteed to tank. I guess Hornets might finally click, but I doubt it.
There's no way we can be worse than those teams that probably won't get 30 wins unless we ruin Wemby's season by shutting him down and sitting important players every game.
After that, lottery becomes exactly that, a lottery. It's not worth having 9th best compared to 12th best odds. Yeah, someone always moves up, but those are low percentage odds.
For someone to move up, another team has to get unlucky (mostly Pistons). And we've been lucky way too many times already. Got Wemby with 14%, moved up to #4 and got the Raptors pick this year.
I don't like pushing my luck, we've had enough.

The West is brutal and we won't make the playoffs unless some of the old teams finally fall apart. Warriors, Clippers, Suns and Lakers are all close to their expiry date.
But what we can and need to do is to start actually trying. We've been in the lottery for five years.

We won't just be able to go from 25 to 55 wins in a year. We need to rebuild the winning culture and have some failures while actually trying.
Then we'll most likely fail some more when we start making playoffs.
No all-time great ever has won without failing multiple times except for the likes of Timmy, Magic and Bird who got drafted by good teams.
If you're building from the ground up, it's going to be rough. Can't teach experience.

Considering PATFO's recent draft record, I'd rather have a couple of late teens picks than mid-lottery because players develop way better when they're actually trying to win.



What does a rip-off even mean? For me a rip-off is when teams that can't actually get over the hump throw everything at one trade, have a short window and fail.
If we use those picks we both suggested for Markkanen, we'd still have Hawks picks and all but one of our own picks. Without losing any important players.
Could either draft another potentially great player in the next few drafts or get more quality roster pieces.



I instantly thought of Markkanen trade when it happened because Ainge owns Minnesota already.

All really great points - just want to recognize how spot on you are, especially in regard to the steps of building to contention.

[baseline bum]

Sochan just turned 21 and most young guys are inconsistent. I don't rate him lower than Dyson Daniels, for instance, who similarly went into a package for Dejounte recently (alongside 2 picks worse than these). If they don't value his upside, then you pass. I'm including him because going forward Lauri + Castle make him somewhat expendable.
As for Charlotte '25, that's more of a throw in that he can sell as another first for PR purposes, I'm not expecting him to value him as a first other than to stroke his ego a bit. 2 young players, 2 good picks plus another first (fake) and 2nds sounds reasonable for a 1 time all star that is on an expiring contract. Maybe add ONE more pick if necessary. But that's not a bad offer at all, if GSW want to throw everything but the kitchen sink, Spurs shouldn't be stupid enough to enter that fight.

Ainge probably would rate Daniels over Sochan considering one is above replacement level and one is below and almost anyone would rate Markannen over Murray. One unprotected first, a top 8-10 protected first that might not convey, and a grab bag of crap isn't getting it done in a trade for a star coming off the year Markkanen is.

[Chinook]

You almost have to wonder if Curry is threatening to ask out or something. The Warriors have been uber-aggressive this summer (at least in rhetoric) when they really should take some time to evaluate their roster before making moves.

[Mr. Body]

You almost have to wonder if Curry is threatening to ask out or something. The Warriors have been uber-aggressive this summer (at least in rhetoric) when they really should take some time to evaluate their roster before making moves.

They should just tear it down, then. They have their firsts and Lauri Markkanen ain't gonna do to get them back into the playoffs. Boy's at best a third option and, as I've shown elsewhere, he's purely good only by scale. He's not actually great in a steady state -- 14 ppg 6 rpg is your dude here and he's never sniffed the playoffs. What the is he gonna do for them if they sell the farm?

[ace3g]

[R. DeMurre]

They should just tear it down, then. They have their firsts and Lauri Markkanen ain't gonna do to get them back into the playoffs. Boy's at best a third option and, as I've shown elsewhere, he's purely good only by scale. He's not actually great in a steady state -- 14 ppg 6 rpg is your dude here and he's never sniffed the playoffs. What the is he gonna do for them if they sell the farm?

acting like you're a Nobel prize winning scientist who has actually proven something, when all of your arguments are borderline idiotic, and you're still running with the 14 & 6 line of utter bull .

[Chinook]

This might seem like a lot, but given that it's a renegotiation, I have a feeling it's a big increase then decreases.

The Spurs need to figure out if they want to use the cap space they traded Dillingham to get or not at this point. A lot of decent pickups are getting signed for contracts the Spurs could probably beat pretty easily.

[vy65]

lol Fathead to GSW

[vy65]

How does this affect Lauri, if at all?

[BatManu20]

Fat head to the dubs. Assuming he’s their starting 4. They’re still going for Markkanen.

[SpursFan86]

3 years/$27MM for Fathead seems pretty reasonable tbh

[Mr. Body]

acting like you're a Nobel prize winning scientist who has actually proven something, when all of your arguments are borderline idiotic, and you're still running with the 14 & 6 line of utter bull .

What's borderline idiotic about showing that he's just a pretty good player whose usage went up by a whole bunch?

Dude, put your tiny back in your trousers. This dude ain't it and you slobbering clowns look ing ridiculous.

[ace3g]

[R. DeMurre]

What's borderline idiotic about showing that he's just a pretty good player whose usage went up by a whole bunch?

.

Because his efficiency also went up, which wouldn't be the case if he was just a dude arbitrarily raising his usage rate to inflate his numbers. If he hadn't actually improved, his efficiency would go down as the new #1 option on a team and the main focus of opposing defenses.

[spurraider21]

guess Kyle is a 9 million player

signed 4/36 to join grizzlies, signed 2/18 with wolves, now 3/27 with warriors

[Mr. Body]

Because his efficiency also went up, which wouldn't be the case if he was just a dude arbitrarily raising his usage rate to inflate his numbers. If he hadn't actually improved, his efficiency would go down as the new #1 option on a team and the main focus of opposing defenses.

Yeah, because his 3pt attempt rate went down because Hardy started getting him to shoot more often from inside. Who gives a ? His usage rate went up and this is purely the reason why he's no longer just a glorified Andrea Bargnani. On another team, his usage will go down and he'll become wildly overpaid. Meanwhile he has defensive metrics in the deep negative and that ain't changing. No wonder Ainge wants to get rid of him. Don't you think he'd build around him if he was worth it?

He's a mirage.

[timtonymanu]

Probably gonna keep ing around with this Markannen trade that will not happen and then we lose out on any other option and have to go back to Champenny at small forward

[Robz4000]

guess Kyle is a 9 million player

signed 4/36 to join grizzlies, signed 2/18 with wolves, now 3/27 with warriors

Ninehead