There is Markannen to Spurs Buzz

[DPG21920]

Did you see my in-depth post at the end?
We're literally not getting an all-star wing in the next three years unless we get Lauri.
If someone becomes available, the asking price will be both 4 FRPs and Devin or Castle.
If we get Lauri for 4 FRPs, we'd still have 9 FRPs and 20 SRPs left in the next 7 drafts.
Add Brian Wright's drafting record into equation and I'm taking Lauri over his talent evaluation.

I’m good with that cost later especially if it’s someone better than Lauri; someone that can self create more alongside defend at a high level.

I have no issue with going all in. I have an issue with doing it for Lauri

[Mr. Body]

I think this is insane. Lauri is good but not that good. People are wayyyyy to turned on by the thought of adding someone.

He doesn’t self create much. He’s not a great defender. Hes a guy that needs to be setup to hit 3s to have max value and with Wemby and Dev here he will be a third option so what will that value be to spurs with his lack of self creation, defense issues and inability to get to FT line at high rate?

I like Lauri and he would be a good fit but paying that price for a souped up Doug McDermott or “Richard Jefferson” (RJ meaning his role on the spurs - they aren’t similar players) type is just bad business IMVHO.

Yessir. People just want to spend money at the mall.

Markkanen is soft as baby . He's a bad defender. He cannot pass. If you managed to draft him or could get him at a smaller salary? If he cost the CHI and CHA like he should (and didn't cost a max salary)? Sure.

I compared him to Dejounte for a reason. Dejounte was near a triple double average when he got the All-Star reserve nod and was traded. When his usage went down at Atlanta, suddenly he didn't look quite so great. Okay player, but not what they paid for, because they misunderstood what stats on a bad team mean. Once Markkanen goes elsewhere he's getting back to pedestrian, and he doesn't do anything else on the court to warrant what you paid and are paying.

For the Kings? A very specific player they may be okay wildly overpaying for? Maybe. Not if they lose Keegan Murray.

The question has to be "am I okay spending all this (salary, resources) for a 15-16 ppg player"? And the answer is, "Of course not."

[LeBowen]

It’s the opposite. I clearly have guys who are worth it (especially if hypothetically):

Luka, Booker, Fox, Tatum, Brown, Greek Freak

Lauri is 100% not on the list.

All those players would require double the package.
Both 5 FRPs and a couple of young players.
If you're trading for any of them, you're not keeping your second and third best player on the roster.
That's why superstar trades often fail, the remaining roster is gutted and all the picks are gone.

Not to mention that everyone on the list is an extremely unrealistic target, making your posts kind of pointless.
I understand people who don't want Markkanen or want to build through the draft (despite PATFO trading picks away), but anyone who's saying Markkanen isn't the right target either doesn't follow the league or is a contrarian for the sake of it.
You can't name a single other realistic target Spurs could get in the next few years that wouldn't gut the roster and cap situation.

[NASpurs]

No new news but there's a part I don't like:

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2024/07/...rkkanen-2.html

"Utah’s stance on Lauri is the same and it has been the same for a long time: We don’t want to trade Lauri, so you’re going to have to make us trade him.”

“I’ve still been told that Utah prefers to keep Lauri and renegotiate and extend him,” he said. “They can’t do that though until August 6, so why not spend the next month fielding offers, and telling the Kings, ‘Yeah, we’d do it if you give us Keegan Murray,’ and telling the Warriors, ‘Yeah, give us three picks and Podz (Brandin Podziemski) and whatever.’ … It doesn’t hurt to listen.



Whatever it's going to be, seems like it's going to have to be an overpay.

[DPG21920]

Yes. Teams, like okc did with hartenstein, can overpay for Lauri types even if it’s not smart value because they are ready to win now and even if he’s excess in costs he fits well.

Spurs are NOT in that position and paying 5+ firsts + Keldon or god forbid Sochan or Dev for Lauri to be a third option since Wemby/Dev are still going to be the highest usage guys due to style of play and skillset (aka self creation) is just too much for me

I understand LeBowen logic and well thought out thinking and approach; I simply disagree with his conclusion that Lauri in particular is worth it.

[DPG21920]

All those players would require double the package.
Both 5 FRPs and a couple of young players.
If you're trading for any of them, you're not keeping your second and third best player on the roster.
That's why superstar trades often fail, the remaining roster is gutted and all the picks are gone.

Not to mention that everyone on the list is an extremely unrealistic target, making your posts kind of pointless.
I understand people who don't want Markkanen or want to build through the draft (despite PATFO trading picks away), but anyone who's saying Markkanen isn't the right target either doesn't follow the league or is a contrarian for the sake of it.
You can't name a single other realistic target Spurs could get in the next few years that wouldn't gut the roster and cap situation.

Lmao I said that exact thing and was told it was a simple mental exercise. I literally said there’s no one realistic at this point. Quite literally said that.

But I don’t care if it’s double the cost if/when someone that’s a legit star is available. I’d give up 20 picks to pair a legit top 10 player with Wemby

Lauri doesn’t automatically become worth it when you factor in Sa could very well draft a player that’s better

[Chinook]

No new news but there's a part I don't like:

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2024/07/...rkkanen-2.html

"Utah’s stance on Lauri is the same and it has been the same for a long time: We don’t want to trade Lauri, so you’re going to have to make us trade him.”

“I’ve still been told that Utah prefers to keep Lauri and renegotiate and extend him,” he said. “They can’t do that though until August 6, so why not spend the next month fielding offers, and telling the Kings, ‘Yeah, we’d do it if you give us Keegan Murray,’ and telling the Warriors, ‘Yeah, give us three picks and Podz (Brandin Podziemski) and whatever.’ … It doesn’t hurt to listen.



Whatever it's going to be, seems like it's going to have to be an overpay.

See, there's the August 6 date coming out of someone else's mouth. Why do people think this? Nowhere in the CBA does it say the anniversary gets pushed up to the start of the league year. I've seen nothing about the NBA saying the contracts signed during the summer of 2021 would all be given 08/06 dates. Mark took three weeks into the off-season to sign his deal, so even if there was an adjustment, I don't know why it's just assumed he'd be part of it. Colin Sexton signed a deal in September of 2022, and he doesn't get an accelerated anniversary date. Like what the ?

[RC_Drunkford]

I’m glad to see some people on Spurstalk are waking up to the fact that Wright hasn’t proven he can draft at all. And that us having draft picks don’t mean if we keep picking the wrong guy. Chinook is right. We need vets. It’s why I want Gordon Hayward or even Batum. But if we have the ammo to go get Lauri then we should do it.

I mean if Wright is such a good drafter then we already will have a contender bc we have 4 lottery picks starting. Unless people here on Spurstalk don’t believe in Sochan and Vassell and Castle

you want our whole roster to join Scientology or whatever sect he's in? OKC already said it was a huge mistake to bring him on. We should stay away from that guy,

[stnick2261]

Did you see my in-depth post at the end?
We're literally not getting an all-star wing in the next three years unless we get Lauri.
If someone becomes available, the asking price will be both 4 FRPs and Devin or Castle.

you've literally just convinced me that we need to tank this year. If the only personal available in the next 3 years would be an overpay, then we just need to tank for Ace Bailey and sign Lauri as a free agent next summer.

If we get Lauri for 4 FRPs, we'd still have 9 FRPs and 20 SRPs left in the next 7 drafts.
Add Brian Wright's drafting record into equation and I'm taking Lauri over his talent evaluation.

Not all FRPs are equal. If we are giving 4 FRPs for Lauri, they can't be the expected lottery picks. Especially if you don't have confidence in Wright's drafting record; Wright did good drafting Wemby, but that was because it was a no-brainer. 2025 draft will have some no-brainers if we are drafting high enough.

I definitely want Lauri, but I would still limit myself to our own natural picks in non-swap years ('27, '29, '31) as well as CHA and CHI.

[Knoxxx]

My offer would max out at this.

Keldon
25 Chicago
25 Charlotte
26 Spurs with Atlanta swap
28 Spurs with Boston swap
30 Spurs with Minnesota and Dallas swap
31 Minnesota

That’s 6 outright FRPs at face value. In reality it’s 5 FRP with 2 seconds (Charlotte). 4 of those 5 FRP are basically unprotected.

Any more picks than this and it’s starts to feel like an uncomfortable overpay.

By 27 the Spurs should be betting on themselves and maybe sooner. Thus our own picks will see a drop in value and should be the ones we are trying to trade away:

SAS 27
SAS 29
SAS 31

Not saying your list is bad, but I’d try to use one or more of those in place of the 26, 30, and 31 picks on your list. Throwing in Keldon also may give a leg up, as GS and SAC were reportedly unwilling to give UTA the particular players they wanted. Kuminga/Murray.

[Ariel]

No new news but there's a part I don't like:

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2024/07/...rkkanen-2.html

"Utah’s stance on Lauri is the same and it has been the same for a long time: We don’t want to trade Lauri, so you’re going to have to make us trade him.”

“I’ve still been told that Utah prefers to keep Lauri and renegotiate and extend him,” he said. “They can’t do that though until August 6, so why not spend the next month fielding offers, and telling the Kings, ‘Yeah, we’d do it if you give us Keegan Murray,’ and telling the Warriors, ‘Yeah, give us three picks and Podz (Brandin Podziemski) and whatever.’ … It doesn’t hurt to listen.

Whatever it's going to be, seems like it's going to have to be an overpay.

But of course, what was anyone thinking? Ainge has done it a million times, you'd think people would have learned by now, but reading these forums it's clear they haven't. Ainge needs to trade Lauri before the season starts because he's finally accepted anything other than a hard tank won't get him the franchise player he needs. He failed to accept reality in Wemby's draft, and that was a huge up, he won't repeat the same in '25. He's teasing teams right and left, trying to create a bidding war which only he can win. Spurs should put up a good offer, draw the line and be willing to walk away if the price goes up beyond reason. The world doesn't start or end with Markkanen.

[DPG21920]

Boiled down: I think this package if held onto either to draft or trade later has a 70% chance at yielding a better player than Lauri in addition to the ramifications of that (ie not paying that player 40m+ immediately) set the team up much better

Keldon
25 Chicago
25 Charlotte
26 Spurs with Atlanta swap
28 Spurs with Boston swap
30 Spurs with Minnesota and Dallas swap
31 Minnesota

[sfernald]

Lmao I said that exact thing and was told it was a simple mental exercise. I literally said there’s no one realistic at this point. Quite literally said that.

But I don’t care if it’s double the cost if/when someone that’s a legit star is available. I’d give up 20 picks to pair a legit top 10 player with Wemby

Lauri doesn’t automatically become worth it when you factor in Sa could very well draft a player that’s better

This is why I’ve really been regretting that Spurs didn’t draft Buzelis with that 8th pick. I feel like he was the one forward who really had the upside to be better than Mark. Had the smooth shot and signs of developing as a great shooter plus he had really strong creation ability upside. I was sold on him when I watched that all-star night performance where he went toe-to-toe against Chet and Wemby dropping Dirk jumpers in their faces. That would have let us not be having all these worries right now and we would have a really nice shot of developing our core totally from within the way Okc has.

[Ariel]

The offers I read here are crazy. People really should go over what it took Minnesota and Cleveland to get Gobert and Mitc respectively. It was 3 unprotected picks and swaps from playoff teams, of which maybe one might be in the lottery. Not 5 unprotected picks with swap included from multiple teams, of which probably 3 or more have a high chance of being high lottery. Reminds me of the uproar for Lavine in this very board 2 years ago, when it was evident it would end up badly. Going back to that thread for another read might provide some perspective. Imagine the Spurs now with Lavine instead of Wemby. Spurs won't be a contender with Lauri in the next 2 years, maybe in years 3-5 he can be. But they can also be contenders in those years without him. If he can be had at a reasonable price, sure. Otherwise they shouldn't be fooled into buying somebody else's sense of urgency.

[CGD]

No new news but there's a part I don't like:

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2024/07/...rkkanen-2.html

"Utah’s stance on Lauri is the same and it has been the same for a long time: We don’t want to trade Lauri, so you’re going to have to make us trade him.”

“I’ve still been told that Utah prefers to keep Lauri and renegotiate and extend him,” he said. “They can’t do that though until August 6, so why not spend the next month fielding offers, and telling the Kings, ‘Yeah, we’d do it if you give us Keegan Murray,’ and telling the Warriors, ‘Yeah, give us three picks and Podz (Brandin Podziemski) and whatever.’ … It doesn’t hurt to listen.



Whatever it's going to be, seems like it's going to have to be an overpay.

Ok Utah, lol!

[DPG21920]

This is why I’ve really been regretting that Spurs didn’t draft Buzelis with that 8th pick. I feel like he was the one forward who really had the upside to be better than Mark. Had the smooth shot and signs of developing as a great shooter plus he had really strong creation ability upside. I was sold on him when I watched that all-star night performance where he went toe-to-toe against Chet and Wemby dropping Dirk jumpers in their faces. That would have let us not be having all these worries right now and we would have a really nice shot of developing our core totally from within the way Okc has.

Yup. Buzelis or not it was a big gamble from spurs fo essentially saying no player pick 8+ had all star potential

[Sugus]

Boiled down: I think this package if held onto either to draft or trade later has a 70% chance at yielding a better player than Lauri in addition to the ramifications of that (ie not paying that player 40m+ immediately) set the team up much better

Keldon
25 Chicago
25 Charlotte
26 Spurs with Atlanta swap
28 Spurs with Boston swap
30 Spurs with Minnesota and Dallas swap
31 Minnesota

Yeah, I'm with you on this. People are eager to overpay just to get the "shiny new teammate", but the Spurs could do much better with those assets separately.

Lauri is a great fit but not blow-the-load great. And yes, I'd rather wait to see which other players become available - which has never been more of a certainty to happen than in this modern era of the NBA.

Besides, the constraints of the new CBA very well may push previously-contending teams into shipping off players to stay off the dreaded new aprons. This is almost certain to happen to teams like MWK or Denver, and you need to have assets for that moment. I'd rather wait on this than gut the war chest for Klay Thompson 2.0.

[TD 21]

It’s the opposite. I clearly have guys who are worth it (especially if hypothetically):

Luka, Booker, Fox, Tatum, Brown, Greek Freak

Lauri is 100% not on the list.

Booker and Fox are the only two with a decent-good chance to come available within' a few years, but neither is a superstar (Booker is borderline All-NBA and Fox is borderline All-Star) and both will be pushing 30 at that point.

Yes. Teams, like okc did with hartenstein, can overpay for Lauri types even if it’s not smart value because they are ready to win now and even if he’s excess in costs he fits well.

Spurs are NOT in that position and paying 5+ firsts + Keldon or god forbid Sochan or Dev for Lauri to be a third option since Wemby/Dev are still going to be the highest usage guys due to style of play and skillset (aka self creation) is just too much for me

I understand LeBowen logic and well thought out thinking and approach; I simply disagree with his conclusion that Lauri in particular is worth it.

This "ready to win" nonsense needs to be taken behind the barn. This is an atypical situation. They don't have some run of the mill centerpiece to build around, they have an all time one and history shows those players become elite and drag their teams to at least being goodish sooner than later.

They don't need to see it and then react. If what they want is available now (speaking generally), they shouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger.

They have so much draft capital, it'd be virtually impossible to blow their entire load anyway.

[LeBowen]

you've literally just convinced me that we need to tank this year. If the only personal available in the next 3 years would be an overpay, then we just need to tank for Ace Bailey and sign Lauri as a free agent next summer.

That's the problem.
We can't tank if Wemby is healthy. He's easily going to average 25/12 with DPOY defense. And he wants to be on the GOAT trajectory.
There are at least 6, probably 8 teams that will blatantly tank and be under 30 wins.
And even we were to tank, odds would still be against us to land in top3. Look at what's happening to the Pistons every single year.
We got lucky three times in past two drafts. Sometimes it's better to not push your luck.

Not all FRPs are equal. If we are giving 4 FRPs for Lauri, they can't be the expected lottery picks. Especially if you don't have confidence in Wright's drafting record; Wright did good drafting Wemby, but that was because it was a no-brainer. 2025 draft will have some no-brainers if we are drafting high enough.

I made a detailed post about value of our FRP picks. Other than '27 ATL if Trae opts out and leaves, none will be better than late lottery at best.
Minnesota picks are a wildcard, our own picks after '25 shouldn't be in the lottery.

I definitely want Lauri, but I would still limit myself to our own natural picks in non-swap years ('27, '29, '31) as well as CHA and CHI.

The price most of us in here would be happy with are Chicago FRP, Minnesota FRP and swap and then one more '26 or '27 pick.
If Wright didn't get those Minnesota picks to use them for Lauri because they have extra value to Jazz that already owns Minnesota's future, then he's an even bigger idiot than we thought.
You can't say you're building through the draft and then waste picks away.

[Chinook]

The offers I read here are crazy. People really should go over what it took Minnesota and Cleveland to get Gobert and Mitc respectively. It was 3 unprotected picks and swaps from playoff teams, of which maybe one might be in the lottery. Not 5 unprotected picks with swap included from multiple teams, of which probably 3 or more have a high chance of being high lottery. Reminds me of the uproar for Lavine in this very board 2 years ago, when it was evident it would end up badly. Going back to that thread for another read might provide some perspective. Imagine the Spurs now with Lavine instead of Wemby. Spurs won't be a contender with Lauri in the next 2 years, maybe in years 3-5 he can be. But they can also be contenders in those years without him. If he can be had at a reasonable price, sure. Otherwise they shouldn't be fooled into buying somebody else's sense of urgency.

The important thing is that the teams trading for the players are giving basically everything they had. The Spurs have more, and thus they should pay more. Or something. I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze right now. I think Indy played this much better than folks want the Spurs to. A few posters really love Mark, and so any price that doesn't cripple the team is worth paying for him. I'm not in that camp, but I also think if the Spurs want Mark, they're going to end up getting outbid by a team willing to debase themselves if they don't come correct. The Spurs can afford to get what they want. But this type of bidding war is a big reason why I wanted the Spurs to aim for an older vet wing while drafting a young wing prospect rather than trying to play the trade game for guys in their 20s. You get the impact you want (probably even a better impact) and the future you want (a more sustainable future), but it costs less.

[DPG21920]

Booker and Fox are the only two with a decent-good chance to come available within' a few years, but neither is a superstar (Booker is borderline All-NBA and Fox is borderline All-Star) and both will be pushing 30 at that point.




This "ready to win" nonsense needs to be taken behind the barn. This is an atypical situation. They don't have some run of the mill centerpiece to build around, they have an all time one and history shows those players become elite and drag their teams to at least being goodish sooner than later.

They don't need to see it and then react. If what they want is available now (speaking generally), they shouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger.

They have so much draft capital, it'd be virtually impossible to blow their entire load anyway.

Guys are worth it or they aren’t. Lauri is not worth it imo

[TD 21]

Guys are worth it or they aren’t. Lauri is not worth it imo

I agree, but the problem with you and others is delusions of grandeur.

[slick'81]

Spurs are not throwing utah an offer they cant reufse

[poopbox]

I’m good with that cost later especially if it’s someone better than Lauri; someone that can self create more alongside defend at a high level.

I have no issue with going all in. I have an issue with doing it for Lauri

Then who are you going all in for...and how are you getting them on the team?

Like your not going all in for Jokic, Embiid, Shai, Luka, Chet. Those are franchise players who will have to want to leave first. If they never want to leave those teams hang up the phone as soon as you say their name.

Your not even going to be able to get guys like Bridges, OG, Siakam, Haliburton, Brunson. Those guys have re upped either last year, this year, or will next year with their teams. Again, you have 0 chance to get these players unless they specifically ask out.

And all the players I just mentioned, they all have 2 things in common as of right now. 1, all of their teams are better than the spurs teams, and 2, all of their teams have or will have their bird rights so they can offer more years and thus more money than the spurs can.

So who is this mythical nba player you want to pair with Wemby who is a star, who plays on a better team than the spurs, and who will be willing to leave that team and make less money over less years with san antonio? Or if not that, who is the star who is going to just ride out his entire contract, become an unrestricted free agent, and then sign with San Antonio?

Passing on Trae...passing on Lauri...that's how you end up getting sodomized by the Bulls when you have to trade for Lavine in two years cause Victor is telling you to get somebody in here now and literally the only "star" you can trade for is Zach Lavine.

[DPG21920]

Some cold water for fans to consider. I know everyone is excited at thought of landing Lauri or any “star”. But to those of you calling for Spurs to offer up the house for Lauri?

Its insane. I’ll just say it and explain why I think that. Have any of you actually looked at his game and compared it to the other top 5-10 all star forwards you keep comparing him to? Have you looked at his % off assisted buckets compared to them? His ft rate compared to other offensive hubs? His areas he scores and how? His defense compared to the other top 5-10? His ability to create for others?


Lauri is good but not THAT good especially factoring in usage and role on Spurs on offense (he’s not some great defender so we focus on his strengths). People are wayyyyy too turned on by the thought of just adding “someone”

He doesn’t self create much. He’s not a great defender. Hes a guy that needs to be setup to hit 3s via off ball movement to have max value and with Wemby and Dev here he will be a third option (due to Wemby and Dev still being the CLEAR self creators and usage guys due to skillset) so what will that value be to spurs with his lack of self creation, defense issues and not being elite at getting to FT line at high rate via self creation (he’s ok there but not elite for an offensive hub)

I like Lauri and he would be a very good fit but paying that price for a revved up Doug McDermott or “Richard Jefferson” type is just bad business IMVHO. You cannot cough up a young player(s) + 5 firsts etc for a player like that. It’s just not smart IMVHO.

(*RJ meaning his role on the spurs when he was traded here and how that worked out - they aren’t similar players)