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Brown and Tatum.
https://www.espn.com/nba/hollinger/s.../_/position/pf
https://www.espn.com/nba/hollinger/s.../_/position/sf
Who from these lists is worth giving up all our valuable picks for?
Obviously, that player would be within six years of Wemby’s age so that they’re not way out of his timeline. What else? Which star or upcoming SF/ PF star would be the best fit next to Wemby, Castle, and Vassell (the hypothetical here is that all three of these players hit and are untouchable).
Brown and Tatum.
It’s hard a question tbh, I know it’s hypothetical but there aren’t that many Elite SF/PF on the wemby timeline worth trading for.
I guess Tatum or Bachero but I don’t love the fit lol
My PF answer is going to contain one very obvious, convenient choice... but I promise he'd be on there regardless.
Here is the PF list (not in order of preference)
Chet
Lauri
Jalen Williams
JJJ
Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe Paolo but I'm not sure he is really a fit
Jabari Smith Jr
SF:
Tatum
Jaylen Brown
Keegan
Scottie
The size of the load I'm willing to blow on these guys varies.
Edit: I went a little beyond the scope of the question. Some of these guys I'd give minor loads for. I bolded the guys I'd give a big load for.
Chet Holmgren
Now do a parody of Mr Body and tell us how each of those players are trash
“… Chet is just another Luis Scola, you ing idiots!”
”… Scottie Barnes shoots like my grandma. Why the would you give up a first rounder for that guy! I would only give up a second rounder, max.”
And once those players wear a Spurs jersey, he'll defend them to the death while telling you to kill yourself for criticizing themNow do a parody of Mr Body and tell us how each of those players are trash
“… Chet is just another Luis Scola, you ing idiots!”
”… Scottie Barnes shoots like my grandma. Why the would you give up a first rounder for that guy! I would only give up a second rounder, max.”
Chet or a Herb Jones/Trey Murphy lll combo
Jarabi Smith Jr. and Trey Murphy at the wings.
Jabari surprisingly has weak off ball gravity and not a good star complement.
Evan Mobley maybe?
donut is the only target.
Pretty much tbh, unless Jokic somehow becomes available.
Doncic and Markkanen/JJJ
I still like Franz Wagner and I think he will find his shooting stroke again, but even for him, I would not give up more than CHA+CHI+BOS+ one of our own that is later than '26.
Wrote about limited options already, but let's go in depth a bit.
To start off, my personal preference is having a max contract wing next to Wemby instead of a max contract guard, I just see elite wings as way more valuable pieces on championship teams.
And we hopefully got our guards in Castle and Devin.
As for the wings market, Markkanen is literally the best fit and opportunity that will present itself in the next few years, future rookies obviously not included.
And on this list I'll be focusing on wings with all-star potential, there are plenty of them who'd be good role player additions, but so few realistic all-star targets.
Dallas Mavericks:
Them crumbling isn't out of question in a few years, but Spurs are the last place Cuban would trade Luka to. And at that point we won't have many picks.
PJ Washington is just a solid role player.
Denver Nuggets:
MPJ is already on a max contract and isn't worth it. I actually wouldn't mind him here if Denver decides to get out of cap by trading him.
Gordon isn't what Wemby needs due to his subpar shooting ability.
Golden State Warriors:
Wiggins is washed already.
Moody is nothing special.
Kuminga looks to be a good player in the making, but he's not a shooter.
Houston Rockets:
A team that will be interesting to follow just for their quan y of wings.
Amen isn't someone we'd be interested in due to his lack of shooting ability.
Brooks could be a useful veteran, but is just a subpar 3pt shooter and a great defender.
Whitmore has potential and is a good archetype.
Eason could be a decent role player.
Jabari Smith Jr looks to be the best of the bunch and the most interesting one. No way Spurs could get him.
Los Angeles Clippers:
Nephew is done.
DJJ is a solid pick up for them, but just a role player.
Los Angeles Lakers:
Lebron is turning 40.
Hachimura could be a decent rotation option, nothing special.
Memphis Grizzlies:
Bane would be a great fit, but they're not trading him anytime soon.
JJJ would also be a good fit, but they're not trading him, either.
GG Jackson showed a lot of potential this season, we'll see how he develops.
Minnesota Timberwolves:
McDaniels is a good 3-D wing in the making.
Naz Reid looks like a perfect non all-star partner for Wemby.
Will be interesting which one they keep after this season, they can't pay and keep everyone. Or they trade KAT.
New Orleans Pelicans:
Trey Murhpy III looks to be a very good wing in the making, we'll see if he can take the next step and become something more than a role player.
Herb Jones is maybe the best value contract in the league, but he's just a 3-D role player, not someone who moves the needle on a bad team.
Ingram is a ball-stoper, low-effort player who's not suited for winning basketball.
Oklahoma City Thunder:
Jalen Williams is obviously the player we could've and should've drafted, but we'll never get him.
Dort is a great defender and a decent enough 3pt shooter, good role player.
Chet is a F/C hybrid who will probably be a human version of Wemby.
Phoenix Suns:
KD is turning 36 this year, maybe we see him take the hardest road in '26 and joins Wemby as a free agent.
Portland Trailblazers:
Jerami Grant would be interesting, but his contract is a big no for our timeline.
Sacramento Kings:
Keegan Murray is supposedly not available in Lauri talks. Would be a good player for us.
Harrison Barnes is a solid veteran we should try for if Kings look to dump him and we don't get Markkanen.
Utah Jazz:
Markkanen is obviously the perfect option for so many reasons.
Atlanta Hawks:
Jalen Johnson looks to be a good wing in the making.
Risacher just got drafted, unknown.
Deandre Hunter could be a solid role player option.
Boston Celtics:
Tatum and Brown are obviously franchise players for them, pointless to talk about.
If they ever become available, they'll be old and on massive contracts.
Brooklyn Nets:
Cam Johnson and DFS would be interesting role player options, not worth the asking price, most likely.
Charloette Hornets:
Brandon Miller looks like he's going to be an all-star wing. With Hornets being permanently awful, he might just become available...in like 4 years.
Salaun is an unknown, we'll see how he does.
Miles Bridges is a criminal.
Chicago Bulls:
Patrick Williams didn't live up to the expectations.
Cleveland Cavaliers:
Strus is their only wing worth mentioning and he's 6'5.
Okoro is still FA, but his shot is unreliable.
Detroit Pistons:
They're collecting those non-shooting wings like there's no tomorrow.
Indiana Pacers:
Siakam is a great player, but not that good of a fit with Wemby.
Mathurin looks to be a good wing in the making, but he's kind of undersized for a wing, better as a guard.
Miami Heat:
Jimmy is old and just causes trouble.
Milwaukee Bucks:
Giannis might ask after a few more bad seasons, but he'll be well into his 30s and they'll still want a haul.
Middleton is also getting too old.
New York Knicks:
Looks like they got all the elite role-player wings. Not much to say, none will be available.
I really rate OG if he can stay healthy.
Orlando Magic:
Banchero is on his way to s om, no way they're moving him for at least 5 more years.
Wagner also looks to be a great player in the making, but he can't shoot.
Philadelphia 76ers:
PG is old and not worth the contract they gave him.
Toronto Raptors:
Barnes has a lot of potential, but that deal is already huge. Their franchise player.
Washington Wizards:
We'll see how Coulibaly and Sarr develop, too early to tell.
Kuzma would be a decent rotation player.
With that said, here's my list of younger wings I'd love to see play with Wemby and have potential to be more than just your avarege 3-D role players:
Jabari Smith Jr
Jaren Jackson Jr
Desmond Bane
Naz Reid
Trey Murphy III
Jalen Williams
Keegan Murray
Lauri Markkanen
Jalen Johnson
Brandon Miller
OG Anunoby
Mikal Bridges
Paolo Banchero
Scottie Barnes
Player on that list who might become available for 5 FRPs or less within the next 3 years:
Naz Reid
Lauri Markkanen
I could've missed someone, but I just don't see any high level wings under 28 becoming available anytime soon for anything less than Ainge wants for Markkanen.
Even if we talk about older wings hitting FA, there isn't any who won't be well into their 30s.
Our options are to get Markkanen, wait for Minnesota cap to play out next summer or to find an all-star wing in the draft.
Because none of those players I have on my shortlist are going to become available anytime soon for anything less than the biggest package we've seen in a while.
The next time you say no to Markkanen, look around the league and try to find some realistic targets who fit the timeline, have the right skillset and wouldn't gut our picks stash.
If you're still going with the draft around Wemby path, then get ready for some more mediocre choices by Brian Wright while Wemby becomes modern-day KG, held hostage by an incompetent franchise.
Last edited by LeBowen; 07-04-2024 at 07:46 AM.
Nice work LeBowen that's a solid list
Always appreciate your insightful write-ups
Appreciate the post and insight into other teams' situations.
However, recent history and particularly the fluctuating nature of the modern NBA and team/star player relationships make me hesitant to agree to such a fixed, binary landscape outlook. While all of these teams' great players are thought of as "untouchables" and "no way they're traded" right now, the fact remains that at least one of those players is traded or asks out every year. Kawhi was once an "untouchable, he's their franchise" player on a list like yours, TBH, and we all know how that went.
Secondly, we've seen this summer the first effects of the new CBA, and I predict they will hit the currently-contending teams very hard in the next 2-3 years. Already the Clippers preferred to lose PG and perhaps give an effective close to their contending window, over going to the second apron. No doubt other asset-strapped teams, like Milwaukee, will follow suit in short time.
Lastly, I know bashing the FO's decision is common coin in ST, but on the drafting point - what's the problem with Castle, tbh? (he's a Wright pick to boot). You repeatedly hear about this "terrible drafting" by the Spurs as of late, but they've hit on as many players as they've missed, like most teams do, and many of their recent picks play high-level roles (White obviously, Dejounte as well, and our own established players). The Spurs FO might've lost the "international edge" they once had, but they're far from a bottom-tier drafting team, and I've yet to see any real evidence to the contrary as opposed to other teams' drafting output.
I say all this, to propose a fourth option: make minor, one or two-year deals, keep the pick stash, and be ready to pounce at the opportunity. As the old saying goes, you will know the opportunity when it presents itself; it's not something that can be mapped out or predicted (depends on the situation obviously).
In particular, I'm looking real, real good at all these deals BOS has handed out this summer, to put an actual team/target out there. Can't possibly keep all those contracts together with the new CBA.
Agreed, but all those players I listed on my shortlist are under long-term contract (or will be, because noone is rejecting a $200M rookie extension), meaning the price would be hefty.
We're not getting Brandon Miller or Banchero without 5 FRPs, Devin and one more starter. At that point, is it even worth it?
For me the biggest incentive for Markkanen is his fit and the ability to keep all of our good players.
Yeah, we talked about it. I said myself that we'll have a huge advantage because three max deals isn't the way to go anymore, which always works in favor of the team with the best player.Secondly, we've seen this summer the first effects of the new CBA, and I predict they will hit the currently-contending teams very hard in the next 2-3 years. Already the Clippers preferred to lose PG and perhaps give an effective close to their contending window, over going to the second apron. No doubt other asset-strapped teams, like Milwaukee, will follow suit in short time.
And because of new CBA, no matter how well we manage our cap, every good rookie will get the max extension.
Denver drafted their three starters, fourth is on a team-friendly deal and they're still ed with no ability to improve.
There's no issue with Castle. In fact, he was my favorite option at #4 and I think he'll be great.Lastly, I know bashing the FO's decision is common coin in ST, but on the drafting point - what's the problem with Castle, tbh? (he's a Wright pick to boot). You repeatedly hear about this "terrible drafting" by the Spurs as of late, but they've hit on as many players as they've missed, like most teams do, and many of their recent picks play high-level roles (White obviously, Dejounte as well, and our own established players). The Spurs FO might've lost the "international edge" they once had, but they're far from a bottom-tier drafting team, and I've yet to see any real evidence to the contrary as opposed to other teams' drafting output.
But he's not a shooter as of now and playing him together with Jeremy would be a disaster. Not just for Castle, but for everyone.
If we don't get Markkanen, we simply have to get a reliable 3pt shooter to start at PF or our entire offense and team functionality goes to .
Can't have two non-shooters. It's either Castle or Jeremy starting. I'd prefer Castle to start.
When we traded with Minnesota, forum went into full meltdown mode, I had a more positive take, but I said I expect them to actually get a good starter instead if they didn't want two rookies.
But building through draft and trading a #8 pick just doesn't go together, no matter how weak the class is.
I'm looking at Minnesota, tbh.I say all this, to propose a fourth option: make minor, one or two-year deals, keep the pick stash, and be ready to pounce at the opportunity. As the old saying goes, you will know the opportunity when it presents itself; it's not something that can be mapped out or predicted (depends on the situation obviously).
In particular, I'm looking real, real good at all these deals BOS has handed out this summer, to put an actual team/target out there. Can't possibly keep all those contracts together with the new CBA.
They're just ed after this season.
The next summer they'll be at second apron with 5 starters and 2 rookies on the roster. Conley will be 38 and who knows if these two rookies are good enough for a playoff team.
They'll definitely lose NAW and have to choose between keeping Naz or McDaniels. If there isn't anyone dumb enough to trade for KAT, that is.
Then we can either go for Naz in free agency or give them back that pick and swap for McDaniels.
TL;DR
Doesn't have to be Markkanen, but if we go into the season with Champagnie, Keldon and Jeremy as three rotation forwards, I'll honestly lose it.
Chet
Banchero
Good post, and we're in agreement over most things.
I really don't know that we'd be able to keep all of our good players to get Lauri - it depends on the package. We might well be forced to lose Sochan or Devin to actually win the sweepstakes, if GS is desperate enough. And secondly, depending on the player, yes I think such a package is worth it. Our own picks would be near bottom once we begin to contend, and if you swap Devin for a less-important player (and add an extra pick or w/e), such a trade has been the catapult of many previous championship teams into "true contention" status.
But the player for such a big package has to be right, and I hesitate on Lauri. Not only for his flaws but his availability, when paired with such a unicorn as Wemby. I want a reliable co-star first and foremost, tbh.
I don't disagree, but that's also not relevant to evaluating Castle as a draft pick. As you say and I agree, he was BPA at 4, and a great pick for now. And it's exactly why I asked you; this farce of the Spurs' supposed bad drafting falls on its face when you look at the hit rate of teams across the league. No team drafts perfect and everyone has skeletons in the closet, but doomers here magnify the Spurs' misses without acknowledging the objectively great picks they've also made.
White, Dejounte and Keldon in consecutive years with #29 picks is an amazing drafting string, and these were extremely recent picks. But you only hear about Primo and Samanic when the Spurs' drafing is referenced as an evaluating point.
I would agree -- had the Spurs not traded #8 for more picks, exclusively. You can perfectly argue that we need talent now, but it's just as easily argued back that spreading out draft picks into Wemby's contending years is a sound, "dynasty" move. Whether you like the trade or not, there is nothing against their "build through the draft" philosophy there, tbh. You still have to draft in the future (or trade the pick, ofc).
Full agree, and MIN (and MWK) are the two teams that prompted my last response. Just no way to keep them together with the new CBA. I'd love Naz Reid on this team, perfect match with Wemby and great player all around. Just no on getting KAT
And I'm fully of the belief that Castle will start alongside Sochan before Champaignie starts another game. We'll have to wait and see, but I don't see the Spurs going there again at all, I'd lose it too.
Not bashing on the FO here, but it is pretty ironic that it seems to be established now that they really want positional size at PG-- almost to the point of obsession-- but their biggest draft miss in recent years was Haliburton, a 6'5" PG.
Last edited by R. DeMurre; 07-04-2024 at 12:50 PM.
No point in going over the package again, but losing Devin for Markkanen would be a no for me, unless it's just Devin +1 FRP.
I'd draw the line at Chicago, two Minnesota and either two average Spurs picks or one good Hawks pick. I'd make Jeremy available.
If they take Collins, I'm giving them that Hornets fake pick, too. But that's just because I detest Collins.
It's really hard to draft all-stars, that's why I feel picks are often over-valued, especially picks given up by playoff teams.I don't disagree, but that's also not relevant to evaluating Castle as a draft pick. As you say and I agree, he was BPA at 4, and a great pick for now. And it's exactly why I asked you; this farce of the Spurs' supposed bad drafting falls on its face when you look at the hit rate of teams across the league. No team drafts perfect and everyone has skeletons in the closet, but doomers here magnify the Spurs' misses without acknowledging the objectively great picks they've also made.
White, Dejounte and Keldon in consecutive years with #29 picks is an amazing drafting string, and these were extremely recent picks. But you only hear about Primo and Samanic when the Spurs' drafing is referenced as an evaluating point.
I'd be against giving up picks if Spurs had nothing left, like what Minnesota and Bucks did and now they're stuck.
None of the picks we own except '27 ATL if Trae leaves are going to be in top5 without another low percentage luck.
How many players drafted outside top5 over the past decade are better than Markkanen? That's how I look at things.
I'd be fine if those picks were in '25-27 drafts, but '31?I would agree -- had the Spurs not traded #8 for more picks, exclusively. You can perfectly argue that we need talent now, but it's just as easily argued back that spreading out draft picks into Wemby's contending years is a sound, "dynasty" move. Whether you like the trade or not, there is nothing against their "build through the draft" philosophy there, tbh. You still have to draft in the future (or trade the pick, ofc).
We gave up something that has legit value in #8 pick for something completely unknown.
I'd say that odds of someone drafted in late lottery becoming a good starter are better than Minnesota picks being in top10.
I really think Sochan needs a change of scenary and some pressure taken off him.And I'm fully of the belief that Castle will start alongside Sochan before Champaignie starts another game. We'll have to wait and see, but I don't see the Spurs going there again at all, I'd lose it too.
Change of scenary as coming off the bench.
I think he's a better player than Mamu, but we all saw how much better Mamu played with Wemby due to his skillset.
Sochan with his current skillset just isn't good a fit with Wemby. I'm not saying he can't get there, but I think it's Castle's turn to be put in a good position.
Size doesn't matter as much if someone's a horrible defender, which Haliburton definitely is.
Luka is 6'7 and got hunted in the finals, size doesn't matter if you can't defend at all.
Also, I'm not taking that Haliburton pick against them because it was COVID draft and it was way harder to scout player.
And we had both DJ and Derrick on the roster, was pointless to go for another point guard.
Great post LeBowen.
I'd say that if we miss out on Lauri, then Naz needs to be our major target next off-season. For all the reasons you spell out, Naz is really the next best fit for what we need that matches the availability and timeline requirements. All the rest of the list is pipedreams. With that said, more players can emerge onto that list (much like Lauri did, three years ago we wouldn't be having this conversation about him... who will emerge next?) so there is a bigger pipeline that we can currently see.
But... for all intents and purposes I think we either need to get Lauri, get Naz (which will likely have to wait a year) or build through the draft. I feel like we've already kind of shot ourselves in the foot with the building through the draft (by trading #8 and by signing CP3 which I do believe raises our floor out of the juicy pick range. And I see @Segus's dissent on trading #8, which I disagree with for a different reason which I'll outline below). If not that, then we have to accept that wing is not where the strength of this team is going to be, which is okay... but not optimal (again, for the reasons you laid out).
To my friend Segus, I disagree that punting on #8 is aligned with building through the draft, for one specific reason. I'm actually okay with the concept of moving out of #8, that is perfect fine. My biggest problem is the specific return they got does not align with a lot of paths forward. Yes, it is nice to spread out the picks and have some lined up for when Wemby is in our prime and we are presumed to be a good team... but it presumes that we will be a good team, a step that gets stepped (to use the Spurs' terminology) by doing things like punting on #8. I recognize this is a bit of nuanced, interwoven logic, but that's my take on it. With that said, punting on #8 makes a ton of sense if you've decided that you are going to reshape the roster immediately in a different way (such as signing CP3 and trading for Lauri). Now it all makes sense... but trading #8 to slow roll your way to being a good team, is illogical to me.
Spurs don't sign disgruntled or upset players.
So FALSE!
We only sign hard working, respectable players. We ain't shooting for some Primo wacko.
We will stand pat if we need to.
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