There is Markannen to Spurs Buzz

[exstatic]

He comes to the Spurs knowing that this is his future. He knows he's going to sign. The Spurs don't make the trade unless both parties are agreed on this level.

Does he bring you a pony? That’s so incredibly naive for someone who is a fan of a franchise that has been burned multiple time by players who had an agreement, and then broke it.

[scott]

One other thing that hasn't been mentioned... this might not mean TOO much, but it's a little extra tidbit. I'm sure Pop can talk to Hardy and get all the insight he needs to get a comfort level on the player if there are serious talks.

[baseline bum]

Does he bring you a pony? That’s so incredibly naive for someone who is a fan of a franchise that has been burned multiple time by players who had an agreement, and then broke it.

Lamond Murray got more money from Cleveland than the Spurs could offer with Sean's injury replacement exception. Morris got more money from New York. If the Spurs don't offer Markannen max there's a good chance he would walk, that's why you don't trade for him if you're not willing to give him a five year max deal with max raises.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

The more I think about it, there isn't really a scenario that makes more sense than Markkanen to the Spurs. For any of the sides involved.

For the Spurs, Lauri is probably the best fit available.
For Lauri, playing next to Wemby makes you compe ive for the next decade.
For the Jazz, there isn't any other team out there that can give you more.


If PATFO wants it, it should happen, tbh.

It will happen. We just need to be patient and enjoy. Ainge is just trying to get more from Spurs by dragging. Spurts wont bite as they have already made a solid offer, I think.

[benefactor]

Does he bring you a pony? That’s so incredibly naive for someone who is a fan of a franchise that has been burned multiple time by players who had an agreement, and then broke it.

Why are you even in this thread making this argument? He would not even come here without the assurance of an extension. Every single take here is predicated on him being here for the foreseeable future. Are you trying to tell me that this risk is more of a risk than BWrong actually doing something valuable with those picks? Because I will risk Lauris word with the extension tbh

[benefactor]

Lamond Murray got more money from Cleveland than the Spurs could offer with Sean's injury replacement exception. Morris got more money from New York. If the Spurs don't offer Markannen max there's a good chance he would walk, that's why you don't trade for him if you're not willing to give him a five year max deal with max raises.

Exactly. That guarantee gets made before the ink hits the paper

[benefactor]

And if you don't want to give him the max, you are just stupid. He's an All-Star player and that's what they get paid.

[scott]

Does he bring you a pony? That’s so incredibly naive for someone who is a fan of a franchise that has been burned multiple time by players who had an agreement, and then broke it.

I understand this POV, but this is the scars of Kawhi and Marcus Morris allowing it to affect our judgement. Just like we can't look at those scars and be overly fearful that Wemby is going to demand out, we can't look at those scars and scare ourselves out of other moves. This is Jak, Siakam, OG moves (all of which have varying levels of success for other cir stances), but at higher stakes. Just like when you move up from the $5 blackjack table to the $100 blackjack table, the stakes are higher but the way you play the game (if you want to win) should remain the same.

[scott]

So assuming the deal is Graham, Johnson, Sochan and X picks for Mark

That would put the Spurs at about $20.4 Million for 12 players and Mamu's hold. If the Spurs are legit targeting DeRozan, you'd think that would be plenty of space to sign him. Then they'd have to room exception, which I've been using on Osman for convenience

Paul, Jones, Wesley
Vassell, Castle, Branham
DeRozan, Champagnie, Cissoko
Markkanen, Osman, Mamukelashvili
Wembanyama, Collins, Bassey

So two spots open with the room exception outstanding.

To me, that bench needs a ton of help. The starting lineup also have massive "too many cooks in the kitchen" vibes. Moving DeRozan to the bench and bringing up Castle helps with both, though Jones and Collins being shaky shooters means the bench could have spacing issues as well. If we're talking about a one-year deal for DMDR or a team option in the second year, I think it might be a pretty decent experiment that probably has a second year in it if things look promising but could easily tech into a continued rebuild if things fall apart.

I'm not sure I get why Utah would take Graham in this deal without requiring additional (minor) draft compensation - unless it's to meet the salary floor? I still like Castle starting at the 3 in a Lauri scenario, even if it is in a defensive specialist role. Swapping Castle with DDR in that scenario makes a ton of sense for the reason of adding more defensive punch to the starting 5 in addition to giving an offensive focal point to the bench (though I think that Bench unit might look pretty ugly). If you can magically turn Collins into Lopez to give the Bucks cap savings, then that 2nd unit looks a lot better since Lopez can shoot.

[benefactor]

God why am I even talking to you? You are the same guy who didn't know who the starting point guard for the Golden State warriors was.

[baseline bum]

I'm not sure I get why Utah would take Graham in this deal without requiring additional (minor) draft compensation - unless it's to meet the salary floor? I still like Castle starting at the 3 in a Lauri scenario, even if it is in a defensive specialist role. Swapping Castle with DDR in that scenario makes a ton of sense for the reason of adding more defensive punch to the starting 5 in addition to giving an offensive focal point to the bench (though I think that Bench unit might look pretty ugly). If you can magically turn Collins into Lopez to give the Bucks cap savings, then that 2nd unit looks a lot better since Lopez can shoot.

Graham would just be cheap salary fodder. If a deal gets done by Sunday Utah can cut him and only owe like $2.85 million while he'd count for $12 million in the trade for cap puroses. Long shot to get a deal done that quickly but the Spurs could just give Utah $3 million or a couple of seconds to make up for it and not have to dig into cap space too much for a Markannen trade.

[scott]

Graham would just be cheap salary fodder. If a deal gets done by Sunday Utah can cut him and only owe like $2.85 million while he'd count for $12 million in the trade for cap puroses. Long shot to get a deal done that quickly but the Spurs could just give Utah $3 million to make up for it and not have to dig into cap space too much for a Markannen trade.

But if you are sending Johnson and Sochan, Graham isn't needed for any of that. He's just unnecessary. Johnson alone is enough matching salary, let alone if you add in Sochan. In fact, the trade fails because of Graham.

[scott]

It works on this trade machine (I assume because Utah takes the excess into cap space), but again - it's not necessary so I don't get why Utah would allow him to be included?

[baseline bum]

But if you are sending Johnson and Sochan, Graham isn't needed for any of that. He's just unnecessary. Johnson alone is enough matching salary, let alone if you add in Sochan. In fact, the trade fails because of Graham.

My bad, missed that this was a trade with Keldon. Yeah Graham is useless in any trade with Keldon unless the Spurs are say taking John Collins back too.

[Chinook]

The point of Graham being included is to save the Spurs cap space they'll need to fill put their roster. No matter how much weight one wants to put into VORP, Keldon provides production that would have to be replaced. The Spurs can hope a team like Detroit is willing to take Graham for some seconds, or they can just include him here along with those seconds and cash.

[Knoxxx]

God why am I even talking to you? You are the same guy who didn't know who the starting point guard for the Golden State warriors was.

Lolz-really?!?

[Wilt Chamberlain]

The point of Graham being included is to save the Spurs cap space they'll need to fill put their roster. No matter how much weight one wants to put into VORP, Keldon provides production that would have to be replaced. The Spurs can hope a team like Detroit is willing to take Graham for some seconds, or they can just include him here along with those seconds and cash.

The moment they make this trade they are strategically tanking. They do not want 2025 production at that point. They want a bottom 4 result.

Young players with significant growth potential like Vassell or Sochan are the only players that make sense to interest Utah.

[John B]

Lamond Murray got more money from Cleveland than the Spurs could offer with Sean's injury replacement exception. Morris got more money from New York. If the Spurs don't offer Markannen max there's a good chance he would walk, that's why you don't trade for him if you're not willing to give him a five year max deal with max raises.

I doubt it’s all about getting the max, but also the chance of winning it all, which he could with Wemby, while helping the franchise get more help if he helps with a discounted salary if ever. He knows Wemby gets the Max, but hopefully he knows that the Spurs is a small market who could only afford so much, yet found championships with the Big 3, worked out with their salaries to keep a compe ive team. I’m sure the Spurs will communicate that and Markkanen will be okay to that, if that’s the case.

He’s an international player which historically bodes well with Spurs culture of doing things, I assume.

[scott]

The point of Graham being included is to save the Spurs cap space they'll need to fill put their roster. No matter how much weight one wants to put into VORP, Keldon provides production that would have to be replaced. The Spurs can hope a team like Detroit is willing to take Graham for some seconds, or they can just include him here along with those seconds and cash.

Gotcha, understand - was just curious why he was included. I’d assume Spurs would have to also send the cash to cover Graham’s guarantee in this scenario, or compensate Utah some other way (maybe that was in the “X Picks” portion)

[baseline bum]

I doubt it’s all about getting the max, but also the chance of winning it all, which he could with Wemby, while helping the franchise get more help if he helps with a discounted salary if ever. He knows Wemby gets the Max, but hopefully he knows that the Spurs is a small market who could only afford so much, yet found championships with the Big 3, worked out with their salaries to keep a compe ive team. I’m sure the Spurs will communicate that and Markkanen will be okay to that, if that’s the case.

He’s an international player which historically bodes well with Spurs culture of doing things, I assume.

It's about the money. You can't compare the situations since Manu and Tony took less to keep a champion together while Markannen would be the main acquisition next to Wemby to make le contention possible. If you're trading for Markannen it has to be with the realization that you're either giving him the 5 year max or you just pissed away assets on a rental.

[exstatic]

Why are you even in this thread making this argument? He would not even come here without the assurance of an extension. Every single take here is predicated on him being here for the foreseeable future. Are you trying to tell me that this risk is more of a risk than BWrong actually doing something valuable with those picks? Because I will risk Lauris word with the extension tbh

That’s exactly what I’m saying.

[Knoxxx]

It's about the money. You can't compare the situations since Manu and Tony took less to keep a champion together while Markannen would be the main acquisition next to Wemby to make le contention possible. If you're trading for Markannen it has to be with the realization that you're either giving him the 5 year max or you just pissed away assets on a rental.

It’s not like max salary deals on the Wemby train are going to be common, get it while you can Lauri!

[baseline bum]

That’s exactly what I’m saying.

So much less of a risk that Markannen leaves $70 million on the table than it is the Spurs draft another Primo, another Sochan, and take Vassell over Haliburton with those Atlanta picks/swaps.

[spurraider21]

we are not signing him as the main shotblocker. People here are saying he's a bad defender, but can't point out what he's actually bad at. He's 7 feet tall, mobile enough to guard on the perimeter and strong enough to guard bigs in the post. So what is he bad at? Y'all act like he's Tre Young. He plays PF and SF, not C.

He is a subpar defender. He’s not branham/keldon bad at his position but he’s not what you want. Yes he had athletic traits to make splash plays on highlight reels here and there but it’s not reflective of his level of play on a consistent basis

[DPG21920]

I think we are at a place where no one is really going to change their mind. I'm with scott and LeBowen with the belief that we really can't trust this front office with draft assets when it comes to picking players and it's better to go ahead and trade for a player like Lauri. I don't think you waste them...it's more about being opportunistic. I understand DPG even if I don't agree with him. You want to hold out hope that this front office will be able to take its head out of its ass and pick the players that this team needs to succeed with the assets we have acquired.

At the end of the day it's a very hard call. I saw DPG say he thinks it's a 70% chance those pics will pan out in some way. I honestly think it's closer to 50/50. I worry about this franchise's ability to judge talent. They were too scared to take anyone at number 8 and just traded the pick away instead. How can I trust them with the future picks we own? I and many others are of the opinion that there were players worth taking and the future might show that. As far as building from where we are now goes, Lauri looks like a step in the right direction. You know for a fact you are getting a good player. Perhaps the future will tell a different tale and some better player will get picked with the pick that we traded. It's a risk you take. But from where I stand, it's the risk that needs to be taken.

To be fair, my 70% call was not just via draft with those assets. It was a combination of draft + other trades that may shake loose. Im just of the opinion, especially when factoring in new CBA and limitations that there will always be Lauri types available to over pay for hence no rush.

Give yourself a chance to draft that star (by far best case scnaerio a la OKC) but even if that doesnt work, theres always another Lauri (yes, I know the “hey man you keep saying that but list the next for sure Lauri if not Lauri” crowd doesnt agree - but im not going off who we know is available but the fact that we have seen every year or two multiple all stars shake loose even those we weren’t thinking about).

So its not just draft but the fact that Lauri isnt good enough to go all in for (even if I would be very happy to land him in context) and that I feel pretty confident that there will be players of similar caliber ready to be traded for after we have even more data on Sochan/Dev/Castle/Keldon etc.. and that even if all those guys nuke their value, we have so many picks we can still do a similar overpay deal for a Lauri type player next season but at least we gave ourselves a chance to see how the draft picks turn out and our core guys…

But make no mistake; ive been vocal about CP + Castle alone being an unacceptable off season