Castle WILL 100% be in the starting lineup. There's NO WAY Castle doesn't start from day 1.

[onechance87]

Only way that happens is if castle dominates the summer league and training camp with making outside shots and
being a great playmaker.I expect him to get his shot at starting pg eventually,Cause i see pop sitting paul alot of games for rest anyways.

[scott]

I like that, thanks Chinook. Assuming that the halves are identical, that's 6 min/game of last year's closing lineup (which is a considerable increase over what they averaged last year) + another 6 min/game of functionally the same lineup but with Paul in for Tre. It would be fascinating to compare and contrast those two lineups, though it wouldn't control for the situational variance you point out. It would also be nice if we could see Wemby and Vassell put in 34 mpg on a regular basis, but my guess is that that will trim back some.

The only glaring issue I see is a 7-min stretch at the end of the first and the start of the 2nd where our defense would be quite suspect and worrisome. The start of the second concerns would be significantly mitigated if Castle starts out the defender we hope right out of the gates, but it's probably fair to assume a little bit of an assimilation struggle to start his career. Frankly, I'm not sure we can afford to go prolonged stretches without one of Wemby or Sochan on the floor. A swap for Collins for Lopez (which is off the table now without the cap room) would have majorly alleviated this, as would a swap of Collins for a healthy, one-year-more developed Bassey, which injury I'm afraid has robbed us of (and Bassey may very well be gone).

[Ice009]

Timvp said it. I think CP3 also said it to a reporter.

Has there been interviews with CP since the signing was announced? I haven't read or seen any video with comments from him.

[heyheymymy]

Nice work Chinook. Great way to visualize how the team may stagger lineups.

[mudyez]

It should be (tight rotation...with the others sprinkeling in)...

C: WEMBY, Zollins
Fs: SOCHAN (def), BARNES (vet), Johnson (off)
Gs: Castle (def), PAUL (vet), VASSELL (off)

...CAPS as the starters...once Paul leaves Tre is back in the tight rotation but as the bench guy.

[DAF86]

It might not be the greatest of fits, but I think it makes the most sense to start both Castle and Sochan. It makes no sense to start a 32 journeyman like Barnes over any of them.

Paul, Vassell, Castle, Sochan, Wemby and see how to make it work.

Barnes' shooting and size would also be needed in the 2nd unit, which projects to be very limited on those aspects (Tre, Branham, Keldon, Barnes, Collins).

[montgod]

Developing Wemby with a real point guard in CP is likely more highly prioritized then handing the keys to a rookie over a top point guard of all time. Just thinking big picture.

Fully agree. I think Paul's main job coming in is to present how the offense should work and the success from running it right along with how to be a true PG. I think once that is established and Castle/rest of team does well, maybe Paul takes on less minutes and it possibly looked to be traded to a contender.

Amen Thompson, last years #4 pick, started 23 games for a Houston team at a similar type development stage. Would expect similar for Castle. His starts will come as replacements for injured/resting starters.

I think this is a perfect example of what Castle can be/will be.

[BackHome]

I am cool with that as I want him to play but I don’t want to rush him and destroy his confidence

[onechance87]

It might not be the greatest of fits, but I think it makes the most sense to start both Castle and Sochan. It makes no sense to start a 32 journeyman like Barnes over any of them.

Paul, Vassell, Castle, Sochan, Wemby and see how to make it work.

Barnes' shooting and size would also be needed in the 2nd unit, which projects to be very limited on those aspects (Tre, Branham, Keldon, Barnes, Collins).

nope...It makes no sense to have players in the starting lineup who cant shoot.This will only hurt and make it harder for wemby to operate.
The opponents game plan will just be to double wemby and dare socan and castle to take open shots.Unles sochan or castle become better
shooters,Barnes gotta start to give wemby some space.

[LeBowen]

nope...It makes no sense to have players in the starting lineup who cant shoot.This will only hurt and make it harder for wemby to operate.
The opponents game plan will just be to double wemby and dare socan and castle to take open shots.Unles sochan or castle become better
shooters,Barnes gotta start to give wemby some space.

Those few shots he had the other night were enough for me to conclude that Castle shouldn't be put in the same non-shooting tier as Jeremy.
His jumpshot looks good and functional, while Jeremy's still sends shivers down my spine whenever I see him attempt a 3pt.

Castle will probably be a bad shooter in his first season, but way better than Jeremy and teams giving him Ben Simmons treatment on the perimeter.

[montgod]

Popovich didn't play Splitter for like three years. Nothing is guaranteed.

Different cir stances where Spurs were trying to win now mode and Splitter re-signed with his Spanish club for like 2 yrs after getting drafted btw Spurs. So he wasn't even available and probably wouldn't have started over Oberto/Elson. They also had Mahinmi who was a rookie that year and seeing what he could do.

[spurraider21]

Your day 1 starting 5 will be.

Paul
Vassell
Barnes
Sochan
Wemby

yeah it would be a pretty big upset for this not to happen

based on the matchups, they can have Sochan/Barnes cross-match. Barnes can defend smaller 4's and enable to Sochan to match onto the other team's top player, if need be.

Castle probably wears a couple of hats this year... as a reserve wing and point, depending on the rest of the lineup. main bench unit something like Tre/Castle/Champagnie/Keldon/Zollins

[SpursFan86]

yeah it would be a pretty big upset for this not to happen

based on the matchups, they can have Sochan/Barnes cross-match. Barnes can defend smaller 4's and enable to Sochan to match onto the other team's top player, if need be.

Castle probably wears a couple of hats this year... as a reserve wing and point, depending on the rest of the lineup. main bench unit something like Tre/Castle/Champagnie/Keldon/Zollins

Ugh, seeing it listed out just makes it look so unappealing I know Pop will (hopefully) stagger things + those guys will be going up against other teams’ weak benches a lot too, but geez. That lineup just looks so underwhelming from a shooting/defense standpoint. Guess it’s an improvement over last year at least.

[DAF86]

nope...It makes no sense to have players in the starting lineup who cant shoot.This will only hurt and make it harder for wemby to operate.
The opponents game plan will just be to double wemby and dare socan and castle to take open shots.Unles sochan or castle become better
shooters,Barnes gotta start to give wemby some space.

Last season we had Tre and Sochan in the SL, now it would be the same, just replace Tre with Castle. And before saying that lineup didn't work, bare in mind that Tre, Vassell, Keldon, Sochan, Wemby had the 5th best rating in the entire league last season.

Also, you need to balance the 2nd unit a bit too. Without Barnes' shooting and size, the 2nd unit lacks in both aspects.

I agree it isn't ideal, but I think the smartest thing to do would be to start the season with that lineup I proposed (CP3, Vassell, Castle, Sochan, Wemby), if it doesn't work, you can always change it up, but I think it is better to give the pieces that are thought to be part of the future a more relevant role than journeymen vets that will be irrelevant for us in a couple of years.

[spurraider21]

Ugh, seeing it listed out just makes it look so unappealing I know Pop will (hopefully) stagger things + those guys will be going up against other teams’ weak benches a lot too, but geez. That lineup just looks so underwhelming from a shooting/defense standpoint. Guess it’s an improvement over last year at least.

Tre actually hit 42% of his 3's post all star break last year. granted, it was low volume (about 3.5 attempts per game)... and it wasnt like he was pulling up behind screens or anything, but if he can be a reasonable catch and shoot guy, it goes a long way, esp in lineups with castle on the floor.

keldon is at least capable of shooting. zollins shouldnt be out there with his main intention being to launch 3's, but he theoretically can be a late shot clock release valve as well.

also yeah, i hope we dont get full hockey shifts

[onechance87]

Those few shots he had the other night were enough for me to conclude that Castle shouldn't be put in the same non-shooting tier as Jeremy.
His jumpshot looks good and functional, while Jeremy's still sends shivers down my spine whenever I see him attempt a 3pt.

Castle will probably be a bad shooter in his first season, but way better than Jeremy and teams giving him Ben Simmons treatment on the perimeter.

bro it was one summer league game.Castle also did this this in college.He would make a couple of threes in one game,Then would
disappear the next few games.Hes just gotta be confident and consistent in his shot and has a real good chance to be really good.

[LeBowen]

bro it was one summer league game.Castle also did this this in college.He would make a couple of threes in one game,Then would
disappear the next few games.Hes just gotta be confident and consistent in his shot and has a real good chance to be really good.

I'm not saying he'll be a good shooter, I just think he'll become somewhat reliable way sooner than Jeremy because his mechanics are functional.
Those few attempts off the dribble are several tiers above anything we've seen from Jeremy in shooting department.

[BSfromTX]

Didn't Castle make it known before the draft that he didn't want to go to a team that planned to use him as a wing?

[onechance87]

Didn't Castle make it known before the draft that he didn't want to go to a team that planned to use him as a wing?

he kinda backtracked his comments after he was drafted,But believes he still best at pq.He will get his chance to
prove if hes a pg or not.

[dbestpro]

I like the idea of Sochan having to earn his minutes and starting on the bench. He makes too many low BBIQ plays and needs to elevate his thinking game.

[onechance87]

I like the idea of Sochan having to earn his minutes and starting on the bench. He makes too many low BBIQ plays and needs to elevate his thinking game.

or we need to elevate our coaching and scouting.Some employees in the front office may need to be replaced.

[DR_Admiral]

It doesn't matter whether he starts in the season opener - having CP3 start in front of him shouldn't be viewed as a slight. But I fully expect Castle to be starting by game 30ish at the latest.

[Chinook]

So I wanted to make a sample rotation that incorporated some feedback:

	PG	SG	SF	PF	C
12:00	Paul	Vassell	Barnes	Sochan	Wembanyama
07:00	Jones	Vassell	Johnson	Sochan	Wembanyama
05:00	Jones	Vassell	Champagnie	Johnson	Collins
02:00	Castle	Champagnie	Johnson	Barnes	Collins
Quarter
12:00	Castle	Champagnie	Johnson	Barnes	Wembanyama
10:00	Jones	Castle	Champagnie	Barnes	Wembanyama
09:00	Jones	Castle	Champagnie	Barnes	Wembanyama
07:00	Jones	Castle	Champagnie	Sochan	Collins
05:00	Paul	Vassell	Castle	Sochan	Collins
03:00	Paul	Vassell	Johnson	Sochan	Wembanyama
Half

Minutes Distribution:

	Total	PG	SG	SF	PF	C
Paul	10	10	0	0	0	0
Jones	10	10	0	0	0	0
Vassell	15	0	15	0	0	0
Champagnie	12	0	4	8	0	0
Castle	11	4	5	2	0	0
Johnson	12	0	0	9	3	0
Sochan	14	0	0	0	14	0
Barnes	12	0	0	5	7	0
Wembanyama	15	0	0	0	0	15
Collins	9	0	0	0	0	9
Team	120	24	24	24	24	24

Thoughts:

So this is as close to the same distribution as I could get while starting Barnes. I don't love this move, as I think both Barnes and Sochan are obvious PFs, and getting caught in who "could" play the three overlooks who "should" play there. The Spurs have multiple wings that need minutes and shouldn't be giving some to a player who wouldn't be in their best position. The main results of that are that Castle gets in the game quite a bit later and that Johnson has to play some PF. You could give Castle Champagnie's distribution to get him the the game earlier, but I like his first stint being as a PG as well as him having those couple of minutes playing with Paul.

I also broke up Jones' minutes into two stints to give Castle PG minutes during the quarter transition as opposed to just in the middle of the second and broke Wemby's minutes into three stints to give him more rest breaks. I reduced Vassel's and Wemby's minutes, and like with Barnes starting, I don't love it. But it's probably realistic. No one called me on my inability to count last time, but the rotation I had created before did have 10 players in it. I realized that when I tried to carve out another stint and realized every position already had a primary backup. Such a role could still be carved out of Champ's and Keldon's early second-quarter minutes. But it would be nice if the Spurs avoided that. There will be plenty of time to give non-rotation players mintues when guys sit.

Overall, I don't know if this rotation creates the same variance in scenarios for the Spurs as the previous attempt did. We don't see any Wemby at PF due to him losing that two-minute stint with Collins. If Wemby and Sochan are going to both start and close, it would be pretty difficult to stagger their minutes within the minutes restrictions reality imposes. In the previous version, that meant Barnes and Collins were the front court for some time. This version gives us Jones, Vassell, Champagnie, Johnson and Collins, which feels like the lineup that will struggle the most on that end. Again, before folks freak out, this is more of what I think could work to start the season. Hopefully if Wemby and to a lesser extent Vassell show they should have the extra minutes, the team should open those up for them. Hopefully Castle shows himself to be a defensive plus right away and can use this bench era to shore up non-Wemby minutes. All things considered, it looks like a solid rotation compared to what they ran last year. Replace Collins with Lopez, and you probably have a pretty strong offering overall.

[slick'81]

Cp3 gonna make castle a star

[scott]

Thanks for another scenario, Chinook. Unfortunately I don't think there is anyway around the fact that there is going to have to be a decent stretch (this time it's the last 5 min of the quarter) where things are going to look pretty ugly on both sides of the ball, and we might see some extremely frustrating +/- stats as a result. It's just a function of the work-in-progress nature of this roster and the fact that we still have a talent deficiency. That's the way it goes though.