I wonder what Ainge is looking at in terms of his team's landscape and horizon. Watching the Jazz getting smoked by a no-star Sacramento squad in SL. That doesn't mean much in itself, but I don't think much of a Cody Williams, Kyle Filipowski, Isaiah Collier draft class. I just straight up don't. Last year's class of Keyonte George and Taylor Hendricks may be better, but KG is highly inefficient and a poor defender, and Hendricks is a difficult archetype even if he puts it together.
They have a very good coach and a one-time All-Star getting this team too many wins somehow. They have picks incoming next year from Minny and Cleveland that won't be very good. They owe a pick to OKC protected 1-10/1-8, after which the debt is extinguished. They owe all their SRPs from 2025-2028 strangely enough. They get a highly protected LAL first in 2027 and then swaps and outrights from Minnesota and Cleveland until the end of the decade.
Those late picks should start getting good. Right now, though, they're in no-man's land. Markkanen is 27. By the time any future picks start turning out, he'll be into his thirties. I guess it's hard to get good stars to stick in SLC, but really not, when you control their rights. Only reason Gobert and Mitc were broken up was their success was fairly capped off.
Ainge really has to get off Markkanen. It doesn't make any sense to keep him. Maxing isn't an issue due to their cap situation, but why? Feels like getting the best package he can and moving on with a bad young team into a good draft is the way to go. My guess is he and GSW will find a deal in the middle before the extension and then we're done, but it feels like trouble if he extends the guy and is stuck with a piece harder to move due to the larger salary.
Last edited by Mr. Body; 07-15-2024 at 10:28 PM.
Latest from Charania:
The Jazz don’t want to trade Lauri Markkanen, but if the Warriors want to put in a Brandin Podziemski, and — from what I’m told — 3 first round picks, 3-4 unprotected pick swaps, 3-4 second round picks…
Maybe ownership is demanding at least some compe ive games. Regardless, this package is ludicrous. I'd say Podz, two FRPs and a swap or two from Warriors or they walk away. At this point I just want Utah to finish above Atlanta.
Ainge
Like said in earlier posts, Ainge is just bluffing. There's no way they are seriously expecting to get promising young players, 3 first round picks, another 3 swaps and 4 2nd rounders.
I also doubt he's dumb enough to want to keep Markkanen and stay in mediocrity for ever.
I fully expect Lauri to get traded, even if they do resing him in August. That's probably what Ainge is waiting for, resigning Markk so that they can trade him for a bigger price.
I agree that Ainge and Zanik are bluffing. I'm not even sure they want to max out Markkanen because it might be challenging to keep his trade value high, it's an additional risk for them.
That said, if the teams going for him are Warriors and Spurs, and with the great relationship that Pop and Kerr have, I doubt they'd bid against each other instead of having a conversation that doesn't include the Jazz side. I think the Jazz's best move would be to invite other parties to bid.
I kindly disagree with your assessment.
Totally.
Ainge missed a chance to move Markenen at the trade deadline for max value, and will probably also regret not pulling the trigger when he had competing Warrior/Kings offers on the table weeks ago. The smart teams realize that time is not his friend and really aren’t pressed to do anything right now.
This, Reason why George using Clips first "disrepectful offer" as an excuse to quit and go ring chase in Philly is pretty weak. That's basic negociations, what matters is he not first but the last offer.
Markenens defense?
I haven't seen enough Jazz games to know.
With Lacob's latest comments on certain "other" team executives being extremely difficult to work with wanting to "prove how smart they are" and "how illogical some of the parties on the other side are," it really seems like Ainge is determined to shoot himself right in the .
Average in a good setup.
Good enough to guard opposition's second best frontcourt player.
Or to guard stretch bigs so Wemby isn't pulled out of the paint if we get him.
Yeah, because Lacob has every right to talk after every possible star in the universe alligning for him.
Warriors can't offer any picks outright other than 2025 and 2027 which aren't worth that much if GSW gets Markkanen and Steph is still playing on a solid level.
Can't offer 2029 or 2031 without removing protections on 2030 pick, which Wizards probably won't do.
Kuminga is solid, but he's a bad shooter up for extension next summer. Won't be worth the max, but won't take anything less. Not worth it for the Jazz.
Moody is an even worse shooter, smaller and can't playmake.
Podziemski looks solid, but worth one good FRP at the most.
That package isn't worth much, but the mainstream media desperately wants the Warriors to be relevant, so they're trying to sell the narrative of Ainge trying to fleece the Warriors.
If package is actually Podz+2025+2027+swaps, then Spurs can easily beat it with just Minnesota picks and one Hawks pick.
So Utah wants
Podz + crap salary
2026, 2028 firsts, 2030 first if it's top 20
2025, 2027, 2029, 2031 pick swaps
I don't think it's such a crazy ask since he can't get the 2029 and 2031 picks outright due to the Stepien Rule and the 2026 pick will be crap. They're going to need to find a way to get a 2030 first so can offer Ainge their unprotected 2029 and 2031 firsts if they want any hope of pulling Podz from the deal, so that it could be something like
Wiggins
2027, 2029, 2031 firsts
2026, 2028, 2030 pick swap
Last edited by baseline bum; 07-16-2024 at 11:59 AM.
Why are you such a fan of Ainge?
Clearly Lacob thinks it's crazy. Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong, but the rest of the marketplace seems to have departed. (No, there's not likely any 'hidden' negotations with SAS, or else we'd hear about it somehow.)
Both the denizens of this board and Ainge have overrated Markkanen and his value truly is closer to what Dejounte Murray got from NOPe.
I'm a fan of every GM who plays hardball in trades with big market teams.Why are you such a fan of Ainge?
I'm sick of big market GMs thinking that they can get all-star players with mediocre picks and salary dump contracts.
The time is working for Ainge here if those two picks are Warriors' best offer.
They're desperate to get someone and compete, they can't wait until the deadline because they'll be out of playoff picture.
Ainge losing value on Markkanen would suck, but Utah needs to tank either way and they've got a ton of assets already.
A lot of DJ's value is in his contract that's among the best in the league.Both the denizens of this board and Ainge have overrated Markkanen and his value truly is closer to what Dejounte Murray got from NOPe.
GSW can offer the 2026 and 2028 picks instead that are probably worth more to Ainge than the 2025 and 2027 would be. Still without the 2029 and 2031 outright instead of as swaps I don't see why Ainge wouldn't demand the farm.
UTA has near term picks. I’d offer the 20131 Minny pick, and our 2030 pick with the Minny and Dallas swaps attached, essentially a best of 3. That gives them full control of Minny’s picks out to the horizon to use in a potential Ant trade down the line.
Unlikely to get it done. I'd go with scott's proposed deal which is those two plus the Spurs 26 (w/ ATL swap) and Spurs 28 (w/ BOS swap), but would be willing change our 28 to the ATL 27 if needed.
Yeah, we went over it many times and more or less agreed on it.
Both MIN picks, CHI pick would surely be in the trade. Then probably '27 ATL because Spurs own picks wouldn't be worth much with Markkanen.
If it's both Keldon and Collins going the other way so we can give Markkanen a raise right away, also add CHA fake FRP (or is it with all the moves they made) and a handful of SRPs.
Considering that it’s a two horse race, and the other horse only had a limited number of FRPs that’s a massive overpay.
I guess it comes down to how you evaluate Ainge/Utah’s position. I see them needing to trade him, no matter what Ainge says. If they keep Lauri, they’ll have to continue to sit him out and throttle him when he’s on the floor to avoid losing their pick over the next two seasons, when it’s 1-10 and 1-8 protected. That would put him at 29 years old when they actually try to win, and risks pissing him off and maybe publicly forcing their hand. From that perspective, it’s a better offer than GS’s two near term FRPs.
Last edited by exstatic; 07-16-2024 at 12:26 PM.
I agree, I'd have GSW keep Podz, not a big fan of his plus he's more valuable to them, like picks are to Utah. The stone in their shoe is that '30 pick GSW owes to Washington, they should try to buy that using a few 2nd round picks or even Utah should pitch in and send them their crappiest first available, make it "worst of" but guaranteeing it'll convey to make it worthwhile for Washington. If I were Utah I would take out that '26 swap which has zero chance of conveying, and focus on their '25 pick instead. So maybe something like this:
unprotected picks in '25, '27, '29, '31 and unprotected swaps in '28 and '30. Let GSW keep Podz, the '26 swap, and the 2nd rounders that they'd use to buy back the pick, plus they get to pick the filler and salary dump a bit if they want to. Washington gets a bunch of 2nds or a crappy first but sure to convey and closer in time (in this latter case Utah gets a bunch of 2nds to make up for the pick they give up). Everybody gets most of what they want. That's IMO the basic structure of a deal between GSW and Utah.
No, it is crazy. You’re mortgaging your franchise for a decade to soothe Steph, who’s almost out the door.
Right, which is why Markkanen should pull about the same package. The big difference is salary might not make up for a theoretical jump in player value.
they cant re-negotiate/extend until August 6, at which point he can no longer be traded for 6 months. the trade deadline is exactly 6 months after that date, on February 6. so if markkanen doesnt want to deal with midseason trade rumors, he can just wait until august 7 to sign that deal, and then he cannot be traded until next offseason.
if the jazz intend to trade him this season, it requires his cooperation. dont know if thats something theyve already comminciated or agreed upon
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