BSPN: Ranking The Top 25 NBA Players Of The 21st Century

[DAF86]

1999 ring isn’t included in this so they don’t have the same amount of rings. He also has the same amount of finals mvps in the 21st century. It’s not talking about career. It’s talking about from 2000- on. And Kobe has more all nba 1st teams, more finals appearances, more points, more rings, one less mvp and same finals mvp. They are in the same tier for the century.

Kobe missed the playoffs once and Duncan lost to the 8th seed as the 1 seed. Those cancel each other out tbh

Why, because you say so?

I don't care how many rings and finals appearances Kobe has as a second banana, Duncan was still pretty clearly the better player of the 2 in the 21st century.

Kobe shouldn't even be ahead of Shaq or Curry.

[Ice009]

Look, if you dislike LeBron that’s one thing. I’m not saying he has to be everyone’s favorite player. But denying his greatness or acting like he’s not indisputably a top 2 player of all-time is just going into hater territory IMO. I personally have a hard time even seeing the argument for MJ over him at this point.

Sorry, I both dislike Lebron (I don't hate him), and still rate TD higher (A prime TD that is). Same with MJ at his best. I don't look at every single season, don't care about the tail end as it wasn't Tim's fault his body broke down. I look at them at their best, and I don't like Lebron over either of those guys. If starting a team, I'd pick TD, Hakeem, MJ over Lebron.

Lebron formed super teams to win. He couldn't win without them. He has TD's 2013 finals MVP (Tim put the Spurs in position to win it, but he had to watch from the bench as his teammates let him down). 2011, Lebron pissed his pants in those finals (I probably shouldn't say that, but he did play poorly in those finals and it looks like the Mavs strategy/game plan got to him. You'll never see TD play like that in the finals IMO). 2012, yeah, sure they won that one legit, but the Thunder shouldn't have been there in the first place. Spurs got screwed over in that WCF series and who knows how the Heat would have played against the Spurs (I guess we'll never know). His only legit championship is the 2012 one, but I would have loved to have seen how they would have went against the Spurs instead, as the Thunder didn't get the same BS goaltending calls (game 5 HUGE momentum swing on that call) and touch fouls (game 6 after Spurs had a 20 point lead, they get in the bonus super early in the second half. Sjax, T-d up for staring at the bench when they were probably talking all kinds of to him) against the Heat like they did against the Spurs. 2016, well Draymond ed that one up, Cleveland didn't really win it so much as Draymond screwing up (I kept telling my friends if he pulls that in the finals in might cost the Warriors and it did - serves him right, though. I was quite happy with the outcome). The bubble championship, it's unfortunate that happened and it's not his fault with all the that was going on, but I don't know how anyone can hold that Championship up against most others in NBA history.

Lebron is a great player, top 5, but personally, I won't put him ahead of TD (I'd always pick TD at his best over Lebron if starting a team - if we're talking longevity, then that is the only time I'd take Lebron. I'll give him that, he's been consistently great for a long, long time). It's my choice/opinion, and if people don't like it, I don't care. How many finals would TD have gone to in that Eastern Conference in his prime. The amount of finals appearances LBJ has had is not that impressive, as being in the Eastern Conference when the West was the stronger conference most of the time helped him immensely. I doubt he makes anywhere near that amount of finals if he were in the west. I'm coming off as a hater, but that's my opinion on it all. He is probably top 2 or 3 due to his longevity, but for me, if I were a GM and was starting a team, I prefer to go with those other players.

[Seventyniner]

Kobe missed the playoffs once and Duncan lost to the 8th seed as the 1 seed. Those cancel each other out tbh

Missing the playoffs and being the 1 seed cancel each other out?!

btw Kobe missed the playoffs 4 times. Maybe you can't hold 2013-2014 against him because he only played 6 games, but the 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 Lakers were abysmal.

Even age can't be the determining factor: Kobe was 36 and 37 in those last two seasons but Tim Duncan nearly won a Finals MVP at age 36.

[LeBowen]

What are the arguments for Lebron over Duncan if you're a fan of a team and not a player?
As much as I loved Timmy, the main objective was for Spurs to win, not Duncan.

With Lebron in his place, what would've happened to Tony and Manu?
How many picks would Spurs have traded away just to get some short-term help that would leave the franchise crippled long term and then Lebron would've ditched the team.

The only reason he returned to the Cavs was Kyrie already being a lock to develop into one of the best playmakers in the league and Cavs getting another #1 pick that was immediately traded away for Love.
Then as years went by, all of their assets were depleted on mostly bad moves, he forced the front office to give awful extensions to JR and TT, ruined all of their flexibility and future.
Worked out because Draymond was an idiot and Cavs as a small franchise are happy to win one, but Lebron decided to force them to waste all of their assets in a losing battle instead of riding it out for a couple more years and building a well-rounded roster.

He's currently making a mockery out of the Lakers. Monumental failure if not for the bubble and everything going their way.
I don't think Lakers fans are happy with a mickey mouse ring and two series wins in 5 years outside the bubble.
That's pathetic for a franchise that has a huge advantage compared to every other team in the league.

[CorrectCrusader]

You look at the rosters Steph and Kobe missed the playoffs with, then you look at some of the rosters Timmy won 50 games with and won playoff series, even a ring since '03 roster was arguably the worst supporting cast out of any championship roster ever.

03 was the biggest carry job of all time

[LeBowen]

Also, if we talk finals, how many finals would Lebron's Cavs and Heat make in the West?
I'd say Heat makes maybe two, Cavs don't make a single one.

2016 Spurs and OKC would do a way better job against the Cavs than the Warriors that were all about outgunning the opponent.

[SpursFan86]

Yeah, I don’t base my GOAT rankings on loyalty to owners Since we’re firing off hypotheticals left and right: who is to say LeBron wouldn’t have stuck with Cleveland in the first place if they had Popovich and consistent hall of fame talent around him? Who is to say Duncan would’ve stuck with SA if they weren’t a well-run and competent organizations? We can go in circles about “what ifs” all day.

My argument for LeBron has nothing to do with “Look at all the Finals he made!”, so arguing that that the Cavs wouldn’t have made the Finals in the West doesn’t really say anything. Yes, the East was generally weak during LeBron’s time in the conference. He also had for help for many of those years. The first Cavs stint goes without saying. The Heat era is majorly overblown as people act like Wade/Bosh were in their primes and healthy the whole time (or even funnier: “LeBron was why they declined!” ). The 2nd Cavs stint…are we supposed to act like Kyrie and past-his-prime Kevin Love are a stacked team? Take LeBron off those teams and they aren’t winning 40 games. Seriously - look at the on-off splits from those years The funny thing is that I’m usually the one defending how much people overrate Duncan’s help during the first half of his career, but what people do when discussing LeBron’s help is even worse.

Sorry but these arguments just don’t seem genuine at all. Nitpicking stuff like “Look at this game/series LeBron played poorly!”. Are we going to pretend that Duncan never had a bad game/series…?

The argument for LeBron over Duncan is that he’s a more impactful player on the court. He has a comparable prime to MJ/Shaq and better longevity than Kareem/Duncan. If you want to start arguing the most loyal player of all-time then go for it but if we’re talking about the best basketball players then it’s simply absurd to not have LeBron top two (which to be fair you already more or less admitted).

[Seventyniner]

Also, if we talk finals, how many finals would Lebron's Cavs and Heat make in the West?
I'd say Heat makes maybe two, Cavs don't make a single one.

2016 Spurs and OKC would do a way better job against the Cavs than the Warriors that were all about outgunning the opponent.

I may have posted this before, but here's a table of the average SRS values of the playoff opponents for Duncan and James in their careers.

Player	All Playoff Opp SRS	Round 1 Opp SRS	Round 2 Opp SRS	CF Opp SRS	Finals Opp SRS
Duncan	3.906	2.453	4.591	5.801	3.948
James	3.336	0.782	3.147	3.803	7.399

The numbers bear out the narrative: Duncan faced far tougher compe ion in the first three rounds of the playoffs while James faced far tougher compe ion in the Finals.

[LeBowen]

Yeah, I don’t base my GOAT rankings on loyalty to owners

Ownerships can change, franchises (mostly) remain the same.

Since we’re firing off hypotheticals left and right: who is to say LeBron wouldn’t have stuck with Cleveland in the first place if they had Popovich and consistent hall of fame talent around him? Who is to say Duncan would’ve stuck with SA if they weren’t a well-run and competent organizations? We can go in circles about “what ifs” all day.

But were Spurs a well-ran organization before Duncan?
And while Lebron's first Cleveland exit is understandable, everything he's done since joining Miami undermined his coaches and GMs.
If Spoelstra didn't have Riley backing him, he wouldn't have been in charge after Lebron's first season in Miami.

My argument for LeBron has nothing to do with “Look at all the Finals he made!”, so arguing that that the Cavs wouldn’t have made the Finals in the West doesn’t really say anything. Yes, the East was generally weak during LeBron’s time in the conference. He also had for help for many of those years. The first Cavs stint goes without saying. The Heat era is majorly overblown as people act like Wade/Bosh were in their primes and healthy the whole time (or even funnier: “LeBron was why they declined!” ).

First stint Cavaliers were and I think that they're the reason for his obsessive need to control roster moves. He didn't want to be let down again, but he just made things worse most of the time.
Lebron wasn't the reason some of his teammates declined, but you can't deny that every star teammate of his had to take a step back. It was worth most of the time since he was the best player in the world, but still.
He made a lot of money for role players, can't deny that.

Imo, Jokic is a way better teammate to have. Yes, Lebron is a better player overall, but if I'm an all-star looking to join a contender, I'd much rather play with Jokic because he enables everyone to be the best version of themselves and his role players get way more credit than they deserve.

The 2nd Cavs stint…are we supposed to act like Kyrie and past-his-prime Kevin Love are a stacked team? Take LeBron off those teams and they aren’t winning 40 games. Seriously - look at the on-off splits from those years The funny thing is that I’m usually the one defending how much people overrate Duncan’s help during the first half of his career, but what people do when discussing LeBron’s help is even worse.

Yeah, let's act like KLove just randomly declined over one summer.
Went from 26/12/4 to 16/10/2 just like that. That was before Olynyk injured his shoulder.
Bosh went from 24/11 to 18/8.

Obviously numbers go down on stacked teams, but you can't deny that a lot of it is on them having to adapt to Lebron.
Again, it's fine to adapt to the best player on the team, but then you can't on players who had to take a step back and say they weren't good enough.

Their on/off numbers were awful because Cavs were built to function only around Lebron and it all crumbled without him.
They never had an actual backup point guard.

Sorry but these arguments just don’t seem genuine at all. Nitpicking stuff like “Look at this game/series LeBron played poorly!”. Are we going to pretend that Duncan never had a bad game/series…?

I'm nitpicking those because there should be no margin for error if te talk who's the GOAT. You can lose, even get swept, but you have to be the best player on the floor.
Lebron often wasn't.
I think he's top3 no matter which criteria you use, but I just can't make the case for him over MJ. The only thing he's got is longetivity and masterful stad-padding in his last few years.

The argument for LeBron over Duncan is that he’s a more impactful player on the court. He has a comparable prime to MJ/Shaq and better longevity than Kareem/Duncan. If you want to start arguing the most loyal player of all-time then go for it but if we’re talking about the best basketball players then it’s simply absurd to not have LeBron top two (which to be fair you already more or less admitted).

But winning championships is more than just playing well while on the court.
Idk if I wrote this in here already, but I'd split Lebron into three categories:
1) He's a second/third best player ever if we talk on court impact and pure ability.
2) He's a great role model off the floor because he dealt with so much pressure ever since he was a teenager and never had a major slip-up.
3) But his off the floor basketball persona is ing unbearable and cost him more rings. Always complaining about needing more help, always trying to find excuses backed by his media machinery, always putting coaches and GMs under pressure and always getting his way...only to leave when it doesn't work out.

My opinion is that he took the GOAT case away from himself with his constant pressure towards GMs and coaches.
Also, both him and MJ won their last ring at 35.
While Lebron is amazing for a 36-39 year old, his stats are way better than his impact.
He practically has the same stats he had a decade ago and yet it's obvious he's like 30% of a player he was. Which is still great considering his age, but he's not even a top10 player in the league these days.
Otherwise he would've done something against mediocre Nuggets considering how well AD played and how poor the Nuggets actually were, got exposed by Minnesota that turned out to be nothing special.

I may have posted this before, but here's a table of the average SRS values of the playoff opponents for Duncan and James in their careers.

Player	All Playoff Opp SRS	Round 1 Opp SRS	Round 2 Opp SRS	CF Opp SRS	Finals Opp SRS
Duncan	3.906	2.453	4.591	5.801	3.948
James	3.336	0.782	3.147	3.803	7.399

The numbers bear out the narrative: Duncan faced far tougher compe ion in the first three rounds of the playoffs while James faced far tougher compe ion in the Finals.

That's actually great.
Just proves how weak the East was.
That's why FMVPs can sometimes be deceiving.
For example Tony deservedly won it in 2007 because there was no need for Duncan to carry.
In the actual finals that year against the Suns, Timmy averaged 27/14 with 4 blocks. On 57% FG.

[K...]

i think lebron has a problem where he was actually too good for too long. They'll say he was statpadding in a weak era. there's a weird feeling that he didn't have a true rival; dirk, duncan and curry got over him but don't play his position. Kawhi is a what if .... Hes efficient and boring, like a blue chip stock. Is there enough of nomadic pro lebron crowd to keep him relevant over the next big thing (wemby) ? if he isn't in the case for 1 (because nike/nba continue jordan push for example) i could see him fall among the top 50.

[CorrectCrusader]

I may have posted this before, but here's a table of the average SRS values of the playoff opponents for Duncan and James in their careers.

Player	All Playoff Opp SRS	Round 1 Opp SRS	Round 2 Opp SRS	CF Opp SRS	Finals Opp SRS
Duncan	3.906	2.453	4.591	5.801	3.948
James	3.336	0.782	3.147	3.803	7.399

The numbers bear out the narrative: Duncan faced far tougher compe ion in the first three rounds of the playoffs while James faced far tougher compe ion in the Finals.

Easy to make a bunch of finals when you're in the east. Easy to win the finals when you've won the west.

[TD 21]

There's no credible argument for James not being a top 2 player of all time and the worst argument of all is his Finals record.

Jordan never faced a team as good as the Spurs or Warriors in the Finals. The two James won against them, it took him playing about as well as anyone ever has to barely survive those teams, but somehow Jordan was going to swing those other definitive results?

Why, because you say so?

I don't care how many rings and finals appearances Kobe has as a second banana, Duncan was still pretty clearly the better player of the 2 in the 21st century.

Kobe shouldn't even be ahead of Shaq or Curry.

i think lebron has a problem where he was actually too good for too long. They'll say he was statpadding in a weak era. there's a weird feeling that he didn't have a true rival; dirk, duncan and curry got over him but don't play his position. Kawhi is a what if .... Hes efficient and boring, like a blue chip stock. Is there enough of nomadic pro lebron crowd to keep him relevant over the next big thing (wemby) ? if he isn't in the case for 1 (because nike/nba continue jordan push for example) i could see him fall among the top 50.

I love the hypocrisy with Bryant compared to Golden Boy. To be clear, virtually everything said about the former is true, but the latter benefitted from the same things.

He's never beaten a non decimated James team when he didn't have Durant holding his hand and his two non Durant championships came with unprecedented opponent injury luck/avoidance.

Absent those two things, he's also repeatedly fallen flat on his face.

[DAF86]

There's no credible argument for James not being a top 2 player of all time and the worst argument of all is his Finals record.

As if Jordan, who never faced a team as good as the Spurs or Warriors in the Finals, would have had any chance at winning most of those series had he replaced him.

The two James won against them, it took him playing about as well as anyone ever has to barely survive those teams.






I love the hypocrisy with Bryant compared to Golden Boy. To be clear, virtually everything said about the former is true, but the latter benefitted from the same things.

He's never beaten a non decimated James team when he didn't have Durant holding his hand and his two non Durant championships came with unprecedented opponent injury luck/avoidance.

Absent those two things, he's also repeatedly fallen flat on his face.

Dude, you aren't objective when it comes to the Raptors, Curry and Kawhi. Sit this one out.

[itzsoweezee]

1. LeBron
2. TD
3. Shaq
4. Steph
5. Kobe
6. KD
7. Giannis/Jokic
9. Dirk
10. Harden

[TD 21]

Dude, you aren't objective when it comes to the Raptors, Curry and Kawhi. Sit this one out.

If I can't stand Bryant, Curry and Durant, then how am I not?

You people mention O'Neal repeatedly being Finals MVP, but not Durant (who was also considered the consensus second best player throughout this era until the masses pretended to forget and claim Golden Boy was post '22).

You mention Bryant not doing anything between the O'Neal and Gasol eras, but not Golden Boy doing the same when he didn't have loaded teams. He's always given a free pass.

[DAF86]

If I can't stand Bryant, Curry and Durant, then how am I not?

You people mention O'Neal repeatedly being Finals MVP, but not Durant (who was also considered the consensus second best player throughout this era until the masses pretended to forget and claim Golden Boy was post '22).

You mention Bryant not doing anything between the O'Neal and Gasol eras, but not Golden Boy doing the same when he didn't have loaded teams. He's always given a free pass.

Curry won 2 rings without Durant and broke the all-time record for wins in the regular season the year prior to Durant joining. Even with Durant on the team, metrics proved that Curry remained the most impactful player on the team.

Curry is also the victim of the worst robbery for finals MVP in the history of the league, when they gave it to Igoudala over him, yet he's supposedly the media's "Golden Boy".

In my books, Curry won 4 rings as the top dog on his team, that doubles Kobe's tally, and gets him in the Lebron, Duncan, Shaq tier, who all have 4+ as the top dog.

And I don't care about injury luck, every season has injuries. In fact, if it weren't for injuries I would argue Curry would have 5 rings instead of 4 now, because he would keep all the rings he has, and he would add the one that the Raptors won.

[TD 21]

Curry won 2 rings without Durant and broke the all-time record for wins in the regular season the year prior to Durant joining. Even with Durant on the team, metrics proved that Curry remained the most impactful player on the team.

Curry is also the victim of the worst robbery for finals MVP in the history of the league, when they gave it to Igoudala over him, yet he's supposedly the media's "Golden Boy".

In my books, Curry won 4 rings as the top dog on his team, that doubles Kobe's tally, and gets him in the Lebron, Duncan, Shaq tier, who all have 4+ as the top dog.

And I don't care about injury luck, every season has injuries. In fact, if it weren't for injuries I would argue Curry would have 5 rings instead of 4 now, because he would keep all the rings he has, and he would add the one that the Raptors won.

He was in the early stages of who he's become in '15 and the league wasn't covered in quite the same way yet, which is why they didn't hand him Finals MVP. Also keep in mind, only 9 vote on it.

The 73 wins (expected was 65 wins compared to Spurs 67 and the latter didn't go all out for them) are nice, this is mostly about the playoffs.

This again? The injury luck wasn't the typical kind virtually everyone gets, it was unprecedented. Somehow played nothing but teams with multiple key injuries while avoiding every contender in '15 save the Cavaliers (who also had multiple significant injuries). The in '22, it was a similar story (they did get a non contending healthy Mavericks team).

Metrics or not and whether you agree or not, Durant was the consensus second best player in the league.

[DAF86]

He was in the early stages of who he's become in '15 and the league wasn't covered in quite the same way yet, which is why they didn't hand him Finals MVP. Also keep in mind, only 9 vote on it.

The 73 wins (expected was 65 wins compared to Spurs 67 and the latter didn't go all out for them) are nice, this is mostly about the playoffs.

This again? The injury luck wasn't the typical kind virtually everyone gets, it was unprecedented. Somehow played nothing but teams with multiple key injuries while avoiding every contender in '15 save the Cavaliers (who also had multiple significant injuries). The in '22, it was a similar story (they did get a non contending healthy Mavericks team).

I don't care, the Warriors would have beaten any of those teams full strength either way. The Raptors wouldn't have beaten the Warriors full strength. So, no, the injury excuse doesn't fly.

Metrics or not and whether you agree or not, Durant was the consensus second best player in the league.

First, I'm not sure the consensus was that Durant was the 2nd best player in the World. Many had Curry even ahead of Lebron. Nowadays it is talked as the Lebron/Curry era. And, again, IDGF about the consensus, the "consensus" now has Kobe over Shaq and Duncan, when it should never be the case.

Curry is an all-time that is closer to Lebron, than Kobe is to him. I don't care how much you hate his guts, tbh.

[TD 21]

I don't care, the Warriors would have beaten any of those teams full strength either way. The Raptors wouldn't have beaten the Warriors full strength. So, no, the injury excuse doesn't fly.



First, I'm not sure the consensus was that Durant was the 2nd best player in the World. Many had Curry even ahead of Lebron. Nowadays it is talked as the Lebron/Curry era. And, again, IDGF about the consensus, the "consensus" now has Kobe over Shaq and Duncan, when it should never be the case.

Curry is an all-time great more comparable to Lebron than to Kobe. I don't care how much you hate his guts, tbh.

Wrong.

As I said, even with one of Irving or Love, the Cavaliers almost certainly beat them in '15, while the Spurs, Thunder (no Durant) and Clippers would have had a legit shot.

In '22, the Bucks almost certainly beat them with a healthy Middleton, while the Nuggets (no Murray and Porter Jr.), Clippers and Grizzlies (up 2-1 when Morant got injured) would have had a legit shot.

It was consensus, but they were near equals, so you can stop pretending your boy has 4 as the clear lead dog. With Bryant and Duncan, contrary to popular belief, when publications do their lists, the latter is often ranked higher.

I fundamentally disagree with the premise of all championships being equal, but if you're going to argue otherwise, then make sure to do so with Bryant too. He doesn't get short shrift because you hate him, while Golden Boy gets a free pass because you love him.

Saying he's closer to James is absurd.

[KobesAchilles]

1. LeBron
2. TD
3. Shaq
4. Steph
5. Kobe
6. KD
7. Giannis/Jokic
9. Dirk
10. Harden

How is Jokic below KD?

[KobesAchilles]

Missing the playoffs and being the 1 seed cancel each other out?!

btw Kobe missed the playoffs 4 times. Maybe you can't hold 2013-2014 against him because he only played 6 games, but the 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 Lakers were abysmal.

Even age can't be the determining factor: Kobe was 36 and 37 in those last two seasons but Tim Duncan nearly won a Finals MVP at age 36.

I don’t count after he tore his Achilles. Dude was never the same after that. And we were the one seed in 2011 but it wasn’t bc of Duncan. He was garbage that year. I thought he was going to retire he was so bad. Were you even a fan back in 2011 or do you just not remember that season at all? Bc Duncan was the reason we lost that series. It was painful to watch as a Duncan fan.

IMO Kobe scored 35 a game and missed the playoffs. I never thought in that season well if Kobe played better they would’ve made the playoffs. However in 2011 I remember thinking we are fools gold and it’s bc Duncan was sucking and I left the season thinking if Duncan did play better we would’ve won. You don’t have to think the way I do. But that’s how I feel.

[ambchang]

Agreed. After Duncan won in 2014 the consensus flipped back to Duncan being better than Kobe in all time rankings and stayed that way until Kobe passed away in 2020 and immediately flipped back to these clowns putting Kobe ahead of Duncan simply because his death added to his legacy. It's annoying how Kobe's death has inflated his all-time rankings and value.

The best accomplishment kobe had is killing himself, his daughter and five other innocent people. Pushed him at least 10 spots up the all time list.

[DAF86]

Wrong.

As I said, even with one of Irving or Love, the Cavaliers almost certainly beat them in '15, while the Spurs, Thunder (no Durant) and Clippers would have had a legit shot.

In '22, the Bucks almost certainly beat them with a healthy Middleton, while the Nuggets (no Murray and Porter Jr.), Clippers and Grizzlies (up 2-1 when Morant got injured) would have had a legit shot.

It was consensus, but they were near equals, so you can stop pretending your boy has 4 as the clear lead dog. With Bryant and Duncan, contrary to popular belief, when publications do their lists, the latter is often ranked higher.

I fundamentally disagree with the premise of all championships being equal, but if you're going to argue otherwise, then make sure to do so with Bryant too. He doesn't get short shrift because you hate him, while Golden Boy gets a free pass because you love him.

Saying he's closer to James is absurd.

I don't love Curry at all, I just don't irrationally hate him like you do.

Curry - 4 rings as the most impactuful player on his team (statistically proven)

Kobe- 1.5 as the top dog.

Anything else is subjective bull .

[HankChinaski]

Duncan is still top on that list. A lot of what he did doesn't show up on the stat sheet. But the team definitely felt the impact when he put up the jersey.

He competed against tough opponents and got the better of them through the 21st century.

I would have Duncan and Shaq going either direction for 1 and 2. Duncan over Shaq only because he was more relevant to the team in the last decade of either career.

Lebron is a generational talent but made decisions that benefited his brand.

I think that top 5 is mostly right the order is wrong but honestly arguments could be made swapping each of those around in a game of round robin

[exstatic]

When the rubber meets the road Tim Duncan is the only player on that list that could have put the 2002-2003 Spurs on his back and led them to a le. Tony was a second year player who couldn’t shoot. Manu was a rookie who missed 30% of the season. David was old and broken, playing 64 games at 24 minutes per, his lowest minutes other than his 6 game season. The second best player on that team was probably Stephen Jackson.