Sean Elliott: Wemby will become the Greatest Player of All Time

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Great defense, but 4/17 JFC!

[MultiTroll]

Silver medal will still look good on 20 year olds resume.
Given the team he is on and the Pop level French coach.

[Obstructed_View]

Lebron at his prime was as good as Jordan in his prime. Bird, magic, shaq couldn’t been a goat if things fell right.

If there was a time Barkley, who most people have him around top 20 all time, could be as good as a goat, even for a short period of time, it highlights how the goat really wasn’t as definitive based on skills as people make it out to be.

Illegal defense favours isolations immensely.

So ing stupid. Illegal defense got changed in 87. Jordan played the rest of his career, and all of his les, without any benefit to isolation. Two of his three biggest clutch plays were passes.

Yeah skills aren't what made Jordan the greatest. His clutch gene did.

[Obstructed_View]

4 les he is not even the greatest Spur. The conversation is greatest of all time. The reason MJ>Lebron still the rings. If Lebron had 7 championships then you can have the conversation of greatest of all time.

Jordan didn't play in a era where top players change teams to chase rings. Lebron invented that . He's an all time great, but he's trying to beat peak with longevity.

[ambchang]

So ing stupid. Illegal defense got changed in 87. Jordan played the rest of his career, and all of his les, without any benefit to isolation. Two of his three biggest clutch plays were passes.

Yeah skills aren't what made Jordan the greatest. His clutch gene did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defens...cond_violation

https://thesportjournal.org/article/...-consequences/

To further enhance the flow and pace of the games and in response to the criticisms by fan and sportscasters, the league appointed a “select committee” to review and revise the rules. The select committee, chaired by then-Phoenix Suns owner Jerry Colangelo, to make changes to the rules in order to make the game faster, provides for freedom of movement by the offense and level the playing field for smaller players (Blinebury, 2006.) “Many of the people in favor of these changes have been in the game over the last three decades,” Colangelo said (Wise, 2001). “The game has changed in the sense that we’ve lost a lot of fluidity. We’ve evolved into an isolation game because of our defensive guidelines, and we weren’t satisfied with the way the game looked.” (Jerry Colangelo quoted in (ESPN, 2001))

The new rules seemed to de-emphasize isolation play and big men’s control of the paint by introducing a defensive 3-second rule, eliminating illegal defense guidelines and allowing “Zone Defense”; the mid-court 10-second rule was reduced to 8 seconds in order to further increase the speed of the game. In the following years the league also changed the rules to reduce the length and number of time-outs during the game in order to reduce disruption in the games. “It was boring, and it wasn’t the intent of how the game should be played … We were going to try to dictate a faster game,” Colangelo said (ESPN, 2001). Further refinement of hand-checking in 2004-05 reduced the subjectivity of the foul calls by referees, and adjustment of block calls provided the offense a better chance to move the ball (ESPN, 2001).

This is well do ented, so I am not sure why you are trying to pretend illegal defence didn't change the league drastically.

And clutch gene is such a romantic concept, certainly there are players who demands the ball during crunch time (Jordan is a huge example of that) but there has been a few great players who are clutch (Bird, West, Magic to an extent). I am not ready to say Jordan is ultra clutch over everybody else, although he was magnificent.

Jordan didn't play in a era where top players change teams to chase rings. Lebron invented that . He's an all time great, but he's trying to beat peak with longevity.

It's because players couldn't. Magic wouldn't play in anywhere but the Lakers, same with Kobe, Kareem demanded a trade to the Lakers or the Knicks, Barkley forced his way out of 76ers, but that was pretty much their only option, is to act like a malcontent and threaten to be so unpleasant the headache is not worth it. Isiah Thomas didn't want to be drafted by the Pistons, Hakeem tried to force his way out of Houston, Pippen tried to get out of the Bulls, but the teams basically said no and that was that. Jordan never wanted Pippen or Grant when they were young, he wanted experienced players, he pushed to get Walter Davis, he pushed to get Buck Williams for Horace Grant, he just didn't get his way because the players had little power.

[lefty]

4 les he is not even the greatest Spur. The conversation is greatest of all time. The reason MJ>Lebron still the rings. If Lebron had 7 championships then you can have the conversation of greatest of all time.

Jordan faced way worse opposition

[Ice009]

What was the rules before the defensive three-second violation rule came it? How were teams playing before?

And I also remember the NBA allowing zone defenses, but with that defensive three-second rule, you can't really play a true zone defense anyway?

[ambchang]

What was the rules before the defensive three-second violation rule came it? How were teams playing before?

And I also remember the NBA allowing zone defenses, but with that defensive three-second rule, you can't really play a true zone defense anyway?

It was heavy iso and post ups. It was really more about individual dominance and having a top five player back then and you have a great chance of a playoff run. Now it is more about team play, passing and cutting and heavy rotations. The adelman Kings would do well in today’s league I think.

The sonics played a lot of zones backs in the Payton kemp days even though it was technically not allowed.

I personally enjoy the team aspects now and the ball movement but I have to say the league has gone way overboard with protecting offensive players where the game is unwatchable. It’s unnecessary as well as the players are clearly skilled enough to run a decent offence.

Finally, I know people love to make fun of three first names here but he really ushered in a new era of offensive play. Just they he sacrificed offense way too much to accomplish it and would allow or even encourage bad shots to speed up the pace of the game.

[baseline bum]

There is so much wrong with this horse . Nobody was "just as good" as Jordan. There was a very small window where Barkley was nearly his equal. Pippen was an absolute dumpster fire without Jordan. When rules don't cater to isolation plays? They hard fouled him a dozen times a game in the playoffs. .

I think that's more correlation than causation with Pippen as he was IMO never the same player again after his back injuries in 97-98.

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