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  1. #4301
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    I didn't hate the way Victor played for stretches last night. The Spurs made some runs with him on the court when he sat back and let the other guys score points. I don't know if his sickness made him run out of energy or if he realized he had to take a step back. But maybe it's a sign of progress.

    Do people remember when Wemby used to try to cherry pick after every possession? He'd constantly sprint away when the opposing team got a shot up, and multiple times his man would be the one to get the rebound. It took several games to sort that out. As bad as some things have been this year in terms of his habits, it still hasn't regressed to that point.

    It's extremely hard to build anything around a guy who doesn't do anything well. Brazil couldn't name a single thing Wemby actually does repeatably well. He just listed potential things ("He has good vision") that haven't yet translated to anything solid. If Wemby had focused on being an elite PnR big, they could've built their offense around that. If he'd spent time studying how to move without the ball, they could build a screening game where he got midrange curls. When people like Sean talk about how the Spurs have to "play through Wemby", they come off a completely tone deaf to the reality of their star player. There's no way you can build an offense where five guys move with a common purpose if the guy who keeps getting the ball has no idea what he's going to do with it.

    I don't know if folks have noticed over the last couple of games that the Spurs have started to move away from Wemby as the PnR screener. It's very possible this is because they want the guy guarded by the opposing center to set the screen. It seems clear to me one of the Spurs' foci coming into the year was to attack the opposing centers to deter cross-matches. That's why Sochan has been so aggressive this year. The reason why it hasn't changed much is that despite having a productive year so far, Sochan has not been particularly efficient. He's using possessions decently but only to a level the opposing coaches can live with. Running 1/4 PnRs rather than 1/5 seems to be another attempt to play into the strategy, with the added benefit of hopefully getting more solid screens. However, I have seen Sochan and Barnes slip screens too, so I wonder how much of Victor's habits on that end are his own inclinations versus what he's legitimately being asked to do by the staff.

    There's a knock-on effect from Victor not learning how to play as a center. Because Victor doesn't know how to be a center, the opposing team does not have to put their center on him. Because he's not being guarded by centers, Wemby loses his agility advantage. Because he doesn't know how to be a center, he can't take advantage of the massive height difference. Because he doesn't have anything he can really do at that point, he panics. Teams know all this now and send guys at him. It's not because they don't respect the other guys on the court. It's because they know Wemby has to put the ball on the floor to feel comfortable shooting jump shots, so they can send a guy to dig out his dribble. There's basically no downside to doing that, because Wemby's offense isn't at the point where he can consistently punish that.

    I could go on. But this year folks are recognizing the things I was saying last year to a much less receptive crowd. The point of me bringing these things up isn't to trash Wemby or suggest the team trades him. It's to hopefully establish why it takes six or seven years for guys to make it to the top of the mountain. The dude isn't ready -- he's not even meaningfully on the path to becoming ready. While I'm disappointed in the way he's conducted himself on the court at times, I'm not worried about his lack of production. Maturity takes time. It doesn't matter if you're extremely tall and have skills no one that tall has ever shone. He's still a kid, and it takes time. Stop trying to age him up in your head to meet your fantasies. The player he is now and the player he will be when he's ready are very different, and trying to superimpose that actualized player onto the current one and then making demands based on that construct would be foolish.

    It's hard to imagine how much worse things would look right now if the team had traded a ton of picks for Markkanen. They'd have a guy clearly better than Victor on the court but who can't get touches in any flow because his co-star is jacking up 35-footers and breaking off possessions by running to the post and calling for the ball while a guy a foot shorter than him shoves him 15 feet across for the floor. I suggest the fans who still cling to the notions of Victor being ready to win now take a step back and resist the urge to place his struggles at the feet of his teammates. We already know what it looks like for a player to be limited by bad teammates. Robinson in the 90s, Lebron his first couple of years -- that's what it looks like when a guy his great but the other guys on the floor let him down. He's a guy who fundamentally doesn't know how to score consistently at the NBA level and between him and the coaching staff, he hasn't made tangible progress toward that consistency yet.
    You spend all your time disregarding the evident lack of talent around Wemby and harping on and on about his at ude and limitations (which is becoming evident at this point, I am not denying that though still only 4 games in), while trying to convince this board you are not thrashing the kid.
    Maybe you're not, and just congratulating yourself on a supposed prescient prognosis made heretofore?
    You have the cer ude of an insider. Way to go.

  2. #4302
    Fan Since 93 SayTown's Avatar
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    When Wemby is being guarded by dudes a foot shorter than him why is it so hard to get him down on the block and run four down for him. He wouldn't even need to dribble or jump, all he would have to do is turn around and shoot a six footer like its nothing and then when a big is guarding him he can go on the perimeter and try his best Durant impresenation. He's not the shooter Dirk was so him in the mid post doesn't really threaten teams that much. Pop is probably frustrated with Wemby going off script and doing what he wants that he is just going to let him do what he wants until Wemby realizes that what he's trying to do is not going to work in the NBA, the athletes in this league are too good and strong.

  3. #4303
    PRICELESS SPURS FAN polandprzem's Avatar
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    Wemby is # 120 in FG%
    #70 in PPG

    There is not much positives to take from his start to the season, he is unable to produce in more then 30 minutes. In those 30 minutes he has problems with endurance. If there is no aspect that affecting that area at this point I'd fire his S&C coach tbh. 2 most crucial things were not resolved much but as I said we need to wait bit more to conclude.

  4. #4304
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    You spend all your time disregarding the evident lack of talent around Wemby and harping on and on about his at ude and limitations (which is becoming evident at this point, I am not denying that though still only 4 games in), while trying to convince this board you are not thrashing the kid.
    Maybe you're not, and just congratulating yourself on a supposed prescient prognosis made heretofore?
    You have the cer ude of an insider. Way to go.
    I can't imagine coming and thinking it makes sense to repeatedly post "OMG you must think you're so certain". It wasn't a good retort the first time, and it hasn't gotten any better.

    I was apoplectic about the Spurs thinking their players were so good that they could punt on a top-10 pick. I wrote many LONG post going over different ways I wanted the team to add talent last summer. I have talked about the Spurs moving on from Pop many times over the last year (someone just bumped a thread from last year in which I've done it a lot). So no, this idea that I disregard the other issues with the team is off-base. What I'm not doing is using those things as excuses for the way Victor plays on the court. A lot of people ascribed a level of experience and understanding to Wemby beyond that of the rest of the players as to basically make him blameless.

    Why isn't he getting lobs? It must be because everyone else is too stupid to throw them. It couldn't possibly be that the plays weren't open and that lobs require coordination between the passer and receiver and are initiated by the passer.

    Why do players keep stripping him? It must be because the other player suck so badly that opponents keep leaving them. It couldn't possibly be because Wemby is extremely easy to strip once he puts the ball on the floor.

    Why can't players enter the ball to Wemby in the post? It must because because the team is so poorly coached that they can't throw a basic entry pass. It couldn't possibly be because Wemby has no sense to when and how to secure position in the post and physically can't hold it long enough to mess up that timing.

    Why does Wemby take a bunch of horrible threes? It must be because everyone else sucks so bad that he HAS to take those shots for the Spurs to have any offense. It couldn't possibly be because he just has poor shot selection.

    Wemby's a kid, prone to kid mistakes. He's spent years being told he was the messiah and has created an organization around him dedicated to his promotion and domination. He has basically said that he sees his exaltation as a necessary aspect of his team's eventual success. I mean, yeah, it's actually possible that he's going to have to mature beyond his current thinking -- not to no give up on the goals but to synthesize them with the reality playing in the NBA. Me talking about that kind of struggle isn't trashing him, nor is it me creating narratives. It's me seeing him both as a GOAT-level talent and as a young man.

  5. #4305
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    We can blame the over-eager 20 year old for that or the supposed GOAT coach.
    It would be both.

    Pop should pull him aside and sit his ass, but wemby should be smart enough to realize he’s making 1 in 5 and stop shooting that , park his ass in the post (high or low) and make ground beef out of the defence.

  6. #4306
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    When Wemby is being guarded by dudes a foot shorter than him why is it so hard to get him down on the block and run four down for him. He wouldn't even need to dribble or jump, all he would have to do is turn around and shoot a six footer like its nothing and then when a big is guarding him he can go on the perimeter and try his best Durant impresenation. He's not the shooter Dirk was so him in the mid post doesn't really threaten teams that much. Pop is probably frustrated with Wemby going off script and doing what he wants that he is just going to let him do what he wants until Wemby realizes that what he's trying to do is not going to work in the NBA, the athletes in this league are too good and strong.
    They’re tripling him, that’s why. It’s like when teams would build the wall for Giannis.

  7. #4307
    PRICELESS SPURS FAN polandprzem's Avatar
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    It would be both.

    Pop should pull him aside and sit his ass, but wemby should be smart enough to realize he’s making 1 in 5 and stop shooting that , park his ass in the post (high or low) and make ground beef out of the defence.
    IMO it looks like Pop is too easy on Wemby. I think there needs to be time to demand from players. It's been babysitting since Generation talent has come.

  8. #4308
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    I can't imagine coming and thinking it makes sense to repeatedly post "OMG you must think you're so certain". It wasn't a good retort the first time, and it hasn't gotten any better.

    I was apoplectic about the Spurs thinking their players were so good that they could punt on a top-10 pick. I wrote many LONG post going over different ways I wanted the team to add talent last summer. I have talked about the Spurs moving on from Pop many times over the last year (someone just bumped a thread from last year in which I've done it a lot). So no, this idea that I disregard the other issues with the team is off-base. What I'm not doing is using those things as excuses for the way Victor plays on the court. A lot of people ascribed a level of experience and understanding to Wemby beyond that of the rest of the players as to basically make him blameless.

    Why isn't he getting lobs? It must be because everyone else is too stupid to throw them. It couldn't possibly be that the plays weren't open and that lobs require coordination between the passer and receiver and are initiated by the passer.

    Why do players keep stripping him? It must be because the other player suck so badly that opponents keep leaving them. It couldn't possibly be because Wemby is extremely easy to strip once he puts the ball on the floor.

    Why can't players enter the ball to Wemby in the post? It must because because the team is so poorly coached that they can't throw a basic entry pass. It couldn't possibly be because Wemby has no sense to when and how to secure position in the post and physically can't hold it long enough to mess up that timing.

    Why does Wemby take a bunch of horrible threes? It must be because everyone else sucks so bad that he HAS to take those shots for the Spurs to have any offense. It couldn't possibly be because he just has poor shot selection.

    Wemby's a kid, prone to kid mistakes. He's spent years being told he was the messiah and has created an organization around him dedicated to his promotion and domination. He has basically said that he sees his exaltation as a necessary aspect of his team's eventual success. I mean, yeah, it's actually possible that he's going to have to mature beyond his current thinking -- not to no give up on the goals but to synthesize them with the reality playing in the NBA. Me talking about that kind of struggle isn't trashing him, nor is it me creating narratives. It's me seeing him both as a GOAT-level talent and as a young man.
    Forgive me for not being too familiar with your previous essays on the matter. I withdraw any and all assertions resembling reductive representation/s of your position.
    I, too, good sir, will readily admit that the young lad has shortcomings.

  9. #4309
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    Yes, the team around Wemby is not that great but he is the one who wants to play like a guard/SF so he needs to develop a reliable jumpshot. He is several inches taller than everybody else playing at the perimeter so he should be able to shoot over them without his shot being too contested. That is on him.

  10. #4310
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    I get it that he's still a kid and will make mistakes but still the coaching staff needs to home in on him to prevent the risk of bad habits becoming hardwired into him that might be almost impossible to de-program back out of him. That's why I seem so against Pop's approach of just letting Wemby just figure it out. Wemby is in need some good solid guidance which is needed as well for proper development, and what baffles me about that the most is that wemby seems to be a very coachable type of player and would soak up anything that the right people could teach him.

  11. #4311
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    the media is turning on wembanyama he will as for trade if this continues........


  12. #4312
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    In a few days wemby will get his legs…

    and all you pearl clutchers will be praising him again…

    just relax, girls

  13. #4313
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    I didn't hate the way Victor played for stretches last night. The Spurs made some runs with him on the court when he sat back and let the other guys score points. I don't know if his sickness made him run out of energy or if he realized he had to take a step back. But maybe it's a sign of progress.

    Do people remember when Wemby used to try to cherry pick after every possession? He'd constantly sprint away when the opposing team got a shot up, and multiple times his man would be the one to get the rebound. It took several games to sort that out. As bad as some things have been this year in terms of his habits, it still hasn't regressed to that point.

    It's extremely hard to build anything around a guy who doesn't do anything well. Brazil couldn't name a single thing Wemby actually does repeatably well. He just listed potential things ("He has good vision") that haven't yet translated to anything solid. If Wemby had focused on being an elite PnR big, they could've built their offense around that. If he'd spent time studying how to move without the ball, they could build a screening game where he got midrange curls. When people like Sean talk about how the Spurs have to "play through Wemby", they come off a completely tone deaf to the reality of their star player. There's no way you can build an offense where five guys move with a common purpose if the guy who keeps getting the ball has no idea what he's going to do with it.

    I don't know if folks have noticed over the last couple of games that the Spurs have started to move away from Wemby as the PnR screener. It's very possible this is because they want the guy guarded by the opposing center to set the screen. It seems clear to me one of the Spurs' foci coming into the year was to attack the opposing centers to deter cross-matches. That's why Sochan has been so aggressive this year. The reason why it hasn't changed much is that despite having a productive year so far, Sochan has not been particularly efficient. He's using possessions decently but only to a level the opposing coaches can live with. Running 1/4 PnRs rather than 1/5 seems to be another attempt to play into the strategy, with the added benefit of hopefully getting more solid screens. However, I have seen Sochan and Barnes slip screens too, so I wonder how much of Victor's habits on that end are his own inclinations versus what he's legitimately being asked to do by the staff.

    There's a knock-on effect from Victor not learning how to play as a center. Because Victor doesn't know how to be a center, the opposing team does not have to put their center on him. Because he's not being guarded by centers, Wemby loses his agility advantage. Because he doesn't know how to be a center, he can't take advantage of the massive height difference. Because he doesn't have anything he can really do at that point, he panics. Teams know all this now and send guys at him. It's not because they don't respect the other guys on the court. It's because they know Wemby has to put the ball on the floor to feel comfortable shooting jump shots, so they can send a guy to dig out his dribble. There's basically no downside to doing that, because Wemby's offense isn't at the point where he can consistently punish that.

    I could go on. But this year folks are recognizing the things I was saying last year to a much less receptive crowd. The point of me bringing these things up isn't to trash Wemby or suggest the team trades him. It's to hopefully establish why it takes six or seven years for guys to make it to the top of the mountain. The dude isn't ready -- he's not even meaningfully on the path to becoming ready. While I'm disappointed in the way he's conducted himself on the court at times, I'm not worried about his lack of production. Maturity takes time. It doesn't matter if you're extremely tall and have skills no one that tall has ever shone. He's still a kid, and it takes time. Stop trying to age him up in your head to meet your fantasies. The player he is now and the player he will be when he's ready are very different, and trying to superimpose that actualized player onto the current one and then making demands based on that construct would be foolish.

    It's hard to imagine how much worse things would look right now if the team had traded a ton of picks for Markkanen. They'd have a guy clearly better than Victor on the court but who can't get touches in any flow because his co-star is jacking up 35-footers and breaking off possessions by running to the post and calling for the ball while a guy a foot shorter than him shoves him 15 feet across for the floor. I suggest the fans who still cling to the notions of Victor being ready to win now take a step back and resist the urge to place his struggles at the feet of his teammates. We already know what it looks like for a player to be limited by bad teammates. Robinson in the 90s, Lebron his first couple of years -- that's what it looks like when a guy his great but the other guys on the floor let him down. He's a guy who fundamentally doesn't know how to score consistently at the NBA level and between him and the coaching staff, he hasn't made tangible progress toward that consistency yet.
    so you are saying he is young not ready yet and has a lot of work to do no sherlock

  14. #4314
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    Also you cannot tell what he is doing well on offense last year ? you are comparing him with whom exactly ? other rookies ? NBA all stars ? the entire history of the NBA ?

    Victor had 24 games out of 71 with 4 assists or more, 38 games at more than 30 points and shot 32% from 3 which is great for a 7'4 center. Compare him with two of the greatest offensive players in history KD and Lebron, he shot better overall and from 3 than both of them, more offensive rebounds, more assist than KD.. oh and for good measure better Ortg and OBPM than both of them. You can also take an offensive big and compare say one of the greatest... Dirk... have a look at Dirk first season... silly Chinook

    He had a very tough start of the season, there is no denial of the struggle but saying it's difficult to build around a guy who does not do anything well is silly to put it midly. You can build around Victor just for his defense Is Victor more difficult to build around than Shaq or Curry or even Lebron... sure... but that's a ing great problem to have

  15. #4315
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    y'all can blame Wemby, but the main thing I see is that we are playing too slow. We had these dry spells where we couldn't score in a half court set last season too, we just made a lot of plays in transition by getting out and running. The Spurs were 9th in fast break points and 3rd in pace last season. Right now with CP3 we're last in fast break points and 28th in pace. We play way too slow and Wemby gets the ball against a set defense. We need more actions in transition. That's the main issue.

  16. #4316
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Also you cannot tell what he is doing well on offense last year ? you are comparing him with whom exactly ? other rookies ? NBA all stars ? the entire history of the NBA ?

    Victor had 24 games out of 71 with 4 assists or more, 38 games at more than 30 points and shot 32% from 3 which is great for a 7'4 center. Compare him with two of the greatest offensive players in history KD and Lebron, he shot better overall and from 3 than both of them, more offensive rebounds, more assist than KD.. oh and for good measure better Ortg and OBPM than both of them. You can also take an offensive big and compare say one of the greatest... Dirk... have a look at Dirk first season... silly Chinook

    He had a very tough start of the season, there is no denial of the struggle but saying it's difficult to build around a guy who does not do anything well is silly to put it midly. You can build around Victor just for his defense Is Victor more difficult to build around than Shaq or Curry or even Lebron... sure... but that's a ing great problem to have
    uhh... he had 11 such games of 30+ points

    he had 38 games wherein he played 30 or more minutes though. odd stat to mix up imo

  17. #4317
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    uhh... he had 11 such games of 30+ points

    he had 38 games wherein he played 30 or more minutes though. odd stat to mix up imo
    Potayto, Potahto.

  18. #4318
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    the media is turning on wembanyama he will as for trade if this continues........

    I want more of this tbh

    I want him to be trashed excessively even.

    There's no better fuel

    (and stop this "he'll ask to leave" nonsense, it's only year 2 and he has no insentive to leave before year 7)

  19. #4319
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    I want more of this tbh

    I want him to be trashed excessively even.

    There's no better fuel

    (and stop this "he'll ask to leave" nonsense, it's only year 2 and he has no insentive to leave before year 7)
    four games in. ESPN is the hair-trigger equivalent to ST. and perkins was hired for one reason only. sound bytes.

  20. #4320
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    four games in. ESPN is the hair-trigger equivalent to ST. and perkins was hired for one reason only. sound bytes.
    Of course it's trash. I'm not saying it's legit or deserved.

    I just want Wemby to be offended

  21. #4321
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    I want more of this tbh

    I want him to be trashed excessively even.

    There's no better fuel

    (and stop this "he'll ask to leave" nonsense, it's only year 2 and he has no insentive to leave before year 7)
    I agree. Maybe he let success go to his head and needs a reality check.

    By year 2, Kevin Durant was an established consistent shooter. If he wants to model his game after him, he needs to be a better shooter

  22. #4322
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    so you are saying he is young not ready yet and has a lot of work to do no sherlock
    First, I wasn't talking to you. I don't mean that to be snide, but every STer has a different opinion on the matter. For some folks, yes, they need a reality check on that matter. There are PLENTY of posters who thought Victor was ready and who were upset at Pop's comments about Jordan and Jokic. So you haven't been expecting Wemby to come in and win right away. Great. You aren't the only person on this forum, man.

    Second, yes, it matters are trying to find ways to not come to that conclusion by

    Also you cannot tell what he is doing well on offense last year?
    No, I'm saying you can't tell me. You still can't. Like for example:

    shot 32% from 3 which is great for a 7'4 center.
    No, 32 percent is not great. There's no other 32-percent shooter you'd call great. You're attempting to slide in "He shows promise as a shooter" in place of "He's a reliably great shooter", and at best it suggests that you just missed the entire point of what I was saying. We are not talking about if Victor has potential. We are talking about how the Spurs can build a functional offense right now. If your plan is to build it around giving a 32-percent a bunch of looks beyond the arc, then okay. We can discuss that idea of it's (dubious) merits. If instead you're "H-he'll be good. Give him time," then this is my official request to you to get on the actual topic of conversation. We're talking about scheme and how to get Vic quality touches.

    Compare him with two of the greatest offensive players in history KD and Lebron, he shot better overall and from 3 than both of them, more offensive rebounds, more assist than KD.. oh and for good measure better Ortg and OBPM than both of them. You can also take an offensive big and compare say one of the greatest... Dirk... have a look at Dirk first season... silly Chinook
    Like I get that this is you going off on a tangent, but it's weird that you are trying to cherrypick to make a point about two players who play a completely different position and a big who was not the focal point of his team's offense as a rookie.

    He had a very tough start of the season, there is no denial of the struggle but saying it's difficult to build around a guy who does not do anything well is silly to put it midly. You can build around Victor just for his defense Is Victor more difficult to build around than Shaq or Curry or even Lebron... sure... but that's a ing great problem to have
    That you think talking about Wemby's defense has anything to do with the topic is... Well it explains a lot. You're trying to push this fantasy where the arguments you're responding to are these paper-thin strawmen that you can brush aside with superficial answers. The conversation isn't about if Victor sucks, if he has the ability to be a franchise player, or if he's incompetent. The conversation is about repeatable go-to play types that the Spurs can incorporate into an offense. So what does Victor do well consistently enough to make that the basis of an offense? Where does Victor need to ball to do his best work? How is he going to beat his man to get the bucket? Those are questions without answers right now. It's okay that a 20-year-old doesn't have that figured out on an individual level. But then the offense needs to be built around something else, and Victor (and everyone else) has to play their parts within it. Hence why almost of my criticism and praise this year has been about how well he's playing within the flow with his teammates and not about what he stats are like at the end of the game.

  23. #4323
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    uhh... he had 11 such games of 30+ points

    he had 38 games wherein he played 30 or more minutes though. odd stat to mix up imo
    mixed up columns 41 games at +20 pts and 38 with 30 + min.. point remains tho

  24. #4324
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    I don't understand what's going on. Why is he shooting so many stupid threes?

  25. #4325
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    First, I wasn't talking to you. I don't mean that to be snide, but every STer has a different opinion on the matter. For some folks, yes, they need a reality check on that matter. There are PLENTY of posters who thought Victor was ready and who were upset at Pop's comments about Jordan and Jokic. So you haven't been expecting Wemby to come in and win right away. Great. You aren't the only person on this forum, man.

    Second, yes, it matters are trying to find ways to not come to that conclusion by



    No, I'm saying you can't tell me. You still can't. Like for example:



    No, 32 percent is not great. There's no other 32-percent shooter you'd call great. You're attempting to slide in "He shows promise as a shooter" in place of "He's a reliably great shooter", and at best it suggests that you just missed the entire point of what I was saying. We are not talking about if Victor has potential. We are talking about how the Spurs can build a functional offense right now. If your plan is to build it around giving a 32-percent a bunch of looks beyond the arc, then okay. We can discuss that idea of it's (dubious) merits. If instead you're "H-he'll be good. Give him time," then this is my official request to you to get on the actual topic of conversation. We're talking about scheme and how to get Vic quality touches.



    Like I get that this is you going off on a tangent, but it's weird that you are trying to cherrypick to make a point about two players who play a completely different position and a big who was not the focal point of his team's offense as a rookie.



    That you think talking about Wemby's defense has anything to do with the topic is... Well it explains a lot. You're trying to push this fantasy where the arguments you're responding to are these paper-thin strawmen that you can brush aside with superficial answers. The conversation isn't about if Victor sucks, if he has the ability to be a franchise player, or if he's incompetent. The conversation is about repeatable go-to play types that the Spurs can incorporate into an offense. So what does Victor do well consistently enough to make that the basis of an offense? Where does Victor need to ball to do his best work? How is he going to beat his man to get the bucket? Those are questions without answers right now. It's okay that a 20-year-old doesn't have that figured out on an individual level. But then the offense needs to be built around something else, and Victor (and everyone else) has to play their parts within it. Hence why almost of my criticism and praise this year has been about how well he's playing within the flow with his teammates and not about what he stats are like at the end of the game.
    first yes I indeed am saying since well before the draft that developing Victor will take time and thinking he will be ready right away to win is silly.

    for the rest you make no sense about he does nothing well on offense after a first rookie season. He did better on offense than most of the best offensive players of all time in their first season. So your whole point is to say he is a rookie and he still has no Hakeem and dirk moves… yeah no Sherlock

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