Jeremy Sochan is Wemby's cryptonite. He needs to go to the bench

[exstatic]

Sochan just took a big dump on some posters.

Well, one in particular who insists on doubling down.

[J_Paco]

Wemby looked really effective tonight with his off the ball movement. There were several occasions where he was fed the ball in very dangerous positions because of some off ball screens and good movement. We need more of that. Wemby seems to think of himself as an ISO self creator, but he’s actually not very good at that (which is predictable, given his size).

A lot of the time when “Sochan is clogging up the spacing” its because Wemby is trying to be something he is not. Unfortunately our HC is apparently encouraging this stuff.

There is a big difference between encouraging - which I doubt Pop is doing - and allowing a young player to play 'his game.'


Like Chinook has said throughout a lot threads, Wemby is a work in progress offensively and it's about figuring out how to unlock his potential, not being too discouraging at the same time, and building a competent offense around his unique skillset.

It's frustrating to see him doing all the 'hero ball' stuff, but it's something the coaches and team will need to work through/around. Giannis has a similar issue as did Kobe, Tony, and countless other players that always 'see a green light.'

[SpursBills]

I can't speak for anyone else on the board, but for me personally Sochan's success is almost a proxy for the competency of the front office as a whole. I think the entire Primo debacle shook a lot of people's faith in the front office and its ability to evaluate talent. As has been pointed out multiple times over the last year, multiple future lottery picks don't matter if your front office is so terrible that they're just going to draft busts with them.

Last year at this time, the front office's last few lottery draft picks included
1. Wemby (obvious)
2. Sochan (year 2 regression, looked lost out there, journeyman player)
3. Vassell (inefficient chucker who couldn't really get to the rim, slipping defense, doesn't really pass)
4. Primo (dumpster fire)

I don't actually give a about if Branham and Wesley pan out or not, hard to fault a front office without a franchise centerpiece for taking a swing on young unproven talent with a high bust rate to try and hit a home run in the 20s.

A year later, given early returns, it looks like:
1. Wemby (obvious)
2. Sochan - possible top 5 player in his draft class (Chet-Paolo-JDub as the top 3, Keegan Murray probably goes 4, does anyone else from that class have a definitively better trajectory?)
3. Vassell - rim efficiency went way up last year, playmaking more at the end of the year, defense still disappointing, borderline top 5 guy in his class (Ant-Haliburton-Lamelo-Maxey as your top 4, maybe Bane is ahead of him for the 5th spot)
4. Primo (dumpster fire)
5. Castle - numbers look bad but the eye test looks good, still early but promising

This is a lot more palatable to me. Yeah, they could have had JDub and Haliburton, but the guys they got look like they are outperforming their draft slots and turning into consistently solid players. If the Primo draft was more like an anomaly rather than a consistent pattern of draft inep ude, I have a lot more faith in their ability to do something with all the picks that they're acquiring and not trading. We'll see how these guys look as the season goes on.

[ambchang]

Hey Karen!

Stil haven't fixed your obsessive compulsive disorder I see...

You got it girl... Anyone having a different pov than your will always have the wrong sources of info probably overall dishonest. Noone can fool you

PS/ I saw another video of you today, you look good!

Do you even know what obsessive compulsive disorder means?

So you need nuances, but calling sochan the kryptonite of wemby is it calling him zero, it just means he can get into Wembys way. Got it.

[Pauleta14]

Do you even know what obsessive compulsive disorder means?

So you need nuances, but calling sochan the kryptonite of wemby is it calling him zero, it just means he can get into Wembys way. Got it.

How many times to you need to be told to take your time to read Karen?

It's getting worrisome at this point...

Take a deep breathing and try again

[ambchang]

How many times to you need to be told to take your time to read Karen?

It's getting worrisome at this point...

Take a deep breathing and try again

Go to comprehension now.

And Karen with taking deep breath.

What’s next? Logical issues? Extending an olive branch by continuously insulting people with absolutely nothing to add? Oh the mystery.

Btw, aren’t you in France now? Or your first language is French or something?

[ambchang]

Pop is starting to see it and it's not surprising he changed the rotations against Utah

Spurs were 47-23 when Sochan was on the bench with Wemby on the court. Jeremy kills the spacing and helps opponents pack around Wemby

Tom Haberrstroh shares this pov around the 26'



Tom Haberstroh

Tom Haberstroh

Yup, so nuanced. Sochan kills the spacing and is Wembys kryptonite. But it just means he and wemby sometimes gets in each others way.

So much nuance it’s almost a nuisance.

[Pauleta14]

I told you to take your time Karen. You're not listening!!

Ok, I'll help you this time...

You can find a couple posts where I not only explain the use of the word kryptonite by quoting Haberstroh, but I also acknowledged a cple times that it wasn't warranted and just a clikbait hot take. Had you taken the time to read, you'd have had the chance to see a lot more nuance that I'm sure you wished.
I'm not gonna repeat myself so I invite you to take your time, keep your breathing under control, you should be able to find what you seek, there are only 4 pages.

As for where I am, sorry Karen, you're not my type.

[KobesAchilles]

I mean everybody knows that ideally Sochan would be a bench player. If Sochan played like prime Malik Rose I would be very satisfied with him as a player. Hustle, positive energy, defense and toughness. These are the things I want from him. shooting.

As of now we have one player who can really dribble in CP58. One player who can create his own shot in Wemby. One player who is starting to know his role on the team (out of the youth) in Sochan. Everyone else is kinda a mess. Vassell being injured doesn’t help.

But KJ needed to be traded last summer. Branham and Wesley aren’t rotational players on any contender. Collin’s is the most overpaid back up big in the league (literally). I am not putting much stock in anything this season other than Wemby passing out of double teams and being patient with them, Wemby getting a go to move. Wemby diving in pick n rolls effectively with CP58. The record this year doesn’t matter. This year the actual process for our superstar, Sochan continuing to learn his role on the team, Vassell learning how to pass the ball, and Castle just picking CP’s brain. Those are the only 4 players I care about.

[ambchang]

Pop is starting to see it and it's not surprising he changed the rotations against Utah

Spurs were 47-23 when Sochan was on the bench with Wemby on the court. Jeremy kills the spacing and helps opponents pack around Wemby

Tom Haberrstroh shares this pov around the 26'



Tom Haberstroh

Tom Haberstroh

ting on Sochan.

This isn't a thread to on Sochan btw, I like a lot of things he does but I think being with the 2nd unit would make a lot more sense, more spacing for Wemby and also to help compensate Collins or Mamu's defensive liabilities with the bench unit.

+ could touch his ego and make him wanna fight to get this starting job back

ting on Sochan by saying not ting on Sochan.

As a starter I agree

But in the league, he has a future as a plug in versatile defender.

When you see Dunn with Phoenix getting a decent 3 out of nowhere, Sochan is only 21 and a lot can still happen with a good work ethic (and maybe a talented shooting coach?)

Not ting on Sochan, but still confirming he can't play with Wemby.

Sochan's game is around the rim, he'll always bring his defender closer to Wemby and make it easier for the opp the double or more or forcing Vic to settle on the perimeter to avoid the traffic.

It's basic logic and unavoidable as long as Jeremy can't shoot.

Basic logic he can't play with Wemby.

Sochan isn't a center tho and even if Pop sees Wemby as (in part imo) a perimeter player, he also is the center. You csn't use traditional cops with someone so unique. If Sochan could shoot they could alternate inside/out but Sochan can't meaning Wemby will get either stuck outside or always in traffic inside.

Right now Sochan is mostly the one benefiting from their association bc of how Wemby attracts defenses and his passing abilities. It's more a cost than a gain the other way around.

I'm not exhonerating Wemby from his poor play/decisions, there are plenty of stuff he needs to works on, but he's the Franchise and a special player that deserves to have a roster adapted to him, not becoming a role player to help compensate his teammates limitations as we see way too often.

It's on Pop mainly, but it's also a matter of associations/complementarities and Wemby never shines more than surrounded by shooters with spacing.

Lastly I used the word Kryptonite bc it was used in the podcast and as reference, not an endorcement of Wemby as superman. No need to remind us in each of your posts what we all know and say all the time, Wemby has a long road to go and isn't perfect.

Still confirming the video's main point, which is that Sochan can't play with Wemby. he's not the Kryptonite, but not because he doesn't kill Wemby's game, just that Wemby is not superman.

^^

Let me answer you tomorrow, it's 3am here and I'm watcing Nuggets-Wolves

Rarely on the low post, but often at the elbow, the best area he can be imo, he can pass, shoot a mid range or go to the bascket with just one step.

Having Jeremy never being far from the paint makes things more difficut and brings his defender closer to Wemby.

I agree there are diff ways to create spacing, not only the 3pt, but it requires a player like a Boris Diaw or a player that has a high bbiq and gets when he needs to move around depending on Vic's movements. Jeremy isn't there yet.

His 3pt shooting that obssesses everybody isn't the most important area I want to see him progress, his court awareness is really poor, he needs to find the right balance between his enthousiasm/high energy and his focus/decision making.

I don't have any data to support that tbh, it's mostly eye test. I'm not sure stats are necessary to state that Wemby is a lot better playmaker and talented passer than Jeremy.

I'd say the same thing about Tre, who despite being the PG ended up being more the receipient of pick and pop plays than setting up pick and rolls for Vic.

That's why last season's datas are so complicate to analyse imo.

Wemby being (a lot) better with Tre Jones for doesn't mean Tre was good as much as it meant the other options were terrible.

Franchise players don't become subordinate to lesser talents, even if that talent doesn't fit them well. Giannis and Robinson are great examples of that. As mentioned, Wemby didn't prop up Sochan last year. This year, the Spurs seem to have game-planned a very co-dependent relationship between them. If we're able to get more games where the opponent doesn't cross-guard Wemby, we may be able to see how successful Sochan is at scoring against guys his own size. He did not do well yesterday, but it was one game. We'll need more data to see if it was mostly due to the matchup or him just not playing well that night.

Still reaffirming Sochan can't play with Wemby.

Again, the point isn't to on Jeremy, we all need him to be a success but it make sense to try new things and maybe it's just a correlation but maybe Pop found something vs Utah.

Forget Wemby, I like what Jeremy brings to our weak 2nd unit. We can't have another season where everytime Wemby goes to the bench it becomes a layup festival for the opponents. Jereny prevents that and it could help him grow a lot to become the leader of that unit imo.

My point is that we DON'T all know. The gist of that segment is "Why is Wemby inconsistent?" They felt the need to make up something that's not really well supported at all to justify why Wemby isn't the guy they were expecting rather than consider if their expectations were wrong and even unfair to make in the first place. Folks like them have zero interest in living in reality where GOAT talents take several years to develop. They want to churn that cycle is a finished product who only struggles because everyone sucks around him. That quickly turns into someone suggesting he ask out and then the soulless media ecosystem churning that baseless speculation into "rumors" that Wemby wants out. Then you have Stephen A Smith going on air talking about how Miami, LAL or NYK is such a better destination if Wemby wants to win or how the Spurs could at LEAST trade a million picks for Trae Young or Markkanen if they don't want to make their star unhappy.

It's a gross cycle, man, and it really does start with folks blaming everyone else but Wemby and his perfectly normal inexperience for why he has a bad game. They even said in that video that Chet "Has a better supporting cast around him" as if Chet is the star and not the support for SGA. It's bull , and it's bull with a purpose. People buying into that bull , even just the initial premises, sucks.

I could be wrong but I haven't identified even one biased Wemby fanboy on ST. For real (I know some tried to make me one "ad hominem style" but I'm too old for this like most on ST). I think we tend to over interpret posts and rants during games and after losses.

We're all aware of the stupid habbits Wemby refuses to get rid of but we're also all witnessing something we've never seen before despite our constant temptations to find comps from the past.

Deploring not having a better roster to start the career of a generational player doesn't exonerate any of his faults but it's how a lot of people perceive it on ST and it leads to a lot of unnecessary accusations and waste of time.

I think ppl perceive some of your posts as a passive agressive way to criticise Wemby the same way a lot thought I was being a hater on Sochan or Tre when I criticised them.

We need to chill

PS/ I don't know how to use a quote separation, hope it's understandable[/QUOTE]

Still reaffirming Sochan can't play with Wemby.

It's still quite timid, but there's a growing awareness in the media on the "wtf Pop is doing with Wemby..."

ting on Pop.

The point is not to say Sochan sucks but to wonder where he'd be more useful RIGHT NOW. Not long term

Other than the spacing aspect, don't you think Sochan would be a lot more useful with a 2nd unit who has Zollins who can't defend so that we don't lose all the benefice of Wemby's defense when he goes to the bench?

I also think Sochan needs to have to fight for his spot to become the player we all want him to become. Not his fault, but he never had to fight for his starting spot and I can't help but think it no stranger to his very slow development.

It's human nature

He doesn't deserve to start and got handed the job, nope, definitely not ting on Sochan.

Sochan has been great at... what we know he's great at. He's added consistency. Great.

We haven't seen any progress in his shooting, court awareness, ball handling or poise. He needs to control his energy and use it more wisely.

Sochan didn't improve at all, despite the first few games of the season clearly showing he has improved in multiple aspects, but it's OK, because Twitterverse hasn't posted a clip up yet.

[ambchang]

Fair enough, especially regarding the tansition spacing, I was more reffering to the half court one.

My criticism is always mostly directed to PATFO and their limited choices with the roster they built. Each option has its limitations, we'd need a mix of Sochan and Mamu idealy

Again, not exonerating Wemby, who's anything but easy to figure out and coach. I was too harsh when I said Sochan was more of a "cost", as all the players despites their defaults had to put their indiv interests aside for the better of the new Fanchise player.
However I think that considering the singular options Pop has at his disposal (Mamu good on O bad on D, Sochan almost opposite) it makes sense to try diff lineups depending on matchups. Even if it's a very small sample size and indeep the diff wasn't astounding, there was a noticeable one. Let's wait and see if it's tried again by Pop, I think it's worth trying not just for Wemby's interest but as I mentioned many times for Jeremy's as well.

Mitigating the weakness of the bench with extra juice and defence can't hurt either when Wemby can compensate Mamu's deficiencies for ex.


True but it can also be related with the lack of options we have more than Sochan's play in itself. It's relative

Despite this thread appearing to be anti Sochan (I messed up the le tbh), the real topic is "the rotations and linups options".


That "kryptonite" quote is definitely too extreme and was a hot take one. I agree as I said on the previous answer, it's very relative.

Mostly on PATFO's choices and available options

I was effering to the ones you can't even exchange with, like the LBJ's who think you're a hater if you think he's not the goat etc

I genuinely haven't noticed any, I think a lot of posts are wrongly interpreted as such. Trust me I've been "victim" () of it many times, with ppl over interpreting my words (on many diff topics btw )

Yeah, I also think we forget how Pop dgaf and even in the Big3 era he used the 1st half of the season to play tinkerman. I also suspect him to not be unhappy with Wemby's early season "get over yourself" game even if it was mostly due to lack of fitness and being under the weather for a few days (we've all played like that, you just have no juice).


Thx mate! Better late... ^^

So after two days of continuously reaffirming Sochan can't and shouldn't play with Wemby, Chinook pushed your in and you finally is trying to soften up, saying "Kryptonite quote was too extreme and was a hot take one". At no point did you say it is click bait.

What did I do wrong guy??

I followed what Chinook told me ffs

Can't quote properly because you're an idiot.

nice one

Seriously tho where did I mess up with the [ QUOTE]--- text ---[ /QUOTE] ??

cheers

Still can't.

for all the Sochan snifers out there... ^^

Video praising Sochan is for sniffers, in blue font because it is sarcastic, so you think a video praising Sochan is not for sniffers.

Maybe

Despite the good game, I maintain my pov

I don't see much compatibility between Wemby and Sochan, it might end up working but I don't see it now.

Sochan felt a lot more comfortable when Wemby was on the bench

Yup, maintaining the POV of a hot take that said Sochan can't play with Wemby, just all over the place now.

Some poster have reading compehension issues it seems...

Just take a deep breathing it'll be fine boy

Maybe you have consistency issue.

Thanks for stating the obvious that seems too sensitive for a vast majority of the Spurs fanbase

WTF is happening with most of you guys ffs??

You can't have any nunaces in your analysis? It's hero or zero?

ps/ yeah I hope there are solutions, we're seing Pop and his staff trying stuff since 2 games FOR A REASON

Yup, nuances because any view of Sochan can actually play with Wemby, despite a year and a bit of games showing that he actually could, is offset by one bad game by Wemby. Yes, so nuanced and logical.

Hey Karen!

Stil haven't fixed your obsessive compulsive disorder I see...

You got it girl... Anyone having a different pov than your will always have the wrong sources of info probably overall dishonest. Noone can fool you

PS/ I saw another video of you today, you look good!

Don't understand what OCD means, but that is not the first time not knowing what something means keeps you from using it.

I told you to take your time Karen. You're not listening!!

Ok, I'll help you this time...

You can find a couple posts where I not only explain the use of the word kryptonite by quoting Haberstroh, but I also acknowledged a cple times that it wasn't warranted and just a clikbait hot take. Had you taken the time to read, you'd have had the chance to see a lot more nuance that I'm sure you wished.
I'm not gonna repeat myself so I invite you to take your time, keep your breathing under control, you should be able to find what you seek, there are only 4 pages.

As for where I am, sorry Karen, you're not my type.

You said it was a hot take exactly once, explained the usage of the word Kryptonite once, and said it was a clickbait zero times. Then, all eventually went back to you maintaining your POV that Sochan cannot play with Wemby. So who is the only one who has an "nuance" in their analysis? The only guy who said Sochan cannot play with Wemby!

[drpill]

I don't get this take at all, in fact I think it's quite contrary to what I'm seeing with my own eyes. Wemby and Jeremy have a burgeoning connection that is showing a lot of promise. Vic has been good at finding Jeremy from the get go, but it is becoming more of a reciprocal thing as Sochan gets better as a player. Sochan's also our best interior player with Wemby preferencing the perimeter game right now. It's easy to see how it can be Vic creating space for Jeremy when we've all been expecting it to be the other way around. Yeah, occasionally Sochan is in a weird spot and crowds Wemby's space, but it's a learning curve and there are plenty of ways in which this team's spacing has a long way to go.

Anyway, I didn't read any of these long ass posts so whatever. Just seems like it's obvious that these two should continue playing together, given the makeup of this team right now and how we are, hopefully, trending in a positive direction.

[Frenchfred]

Kevin O Connor thinks Sochan shouldn't play with Wemby.

I love Giannis but he cannot shoot a 3 so how would that work with Wemby? Wemby would have to play on the perimeter where he doesn't shoot well either? And 7 first picks??? Waow.

[Pauleta14]

Karen you forgot ur meds again...

It must be a nightmare to live around u everyday tbh

[Pauleta14]

And again an amazing display of Jeremy and Vic offensive connection today!!

[Wu36]

Sucks they didn’t have all the easy sochan buckets tonight.

[TimmyBuckets]

Dumb thread

[NASpurs]

Game was lost when the Kryptonite left the game

[Mnky]

Say what you want, but sochan spreads the floor better than wemby at this point.

I love wemby, he will get out of his shooting slump. Sochan benefits wemby. He does all the bang bang down low wemby is scared of. His rebounding before this year was what I thought was his biggest weakness to a wemby led team. He's doing way better playing down low when wemby wants to hang out at the 3 pt line all day. Sochan has been fitting what wemby wants to do. Maybe not what fans want, but wemby doesn't give a dang what fans want tbh.

Sochan was definitely missed when he went out.

Vassell coming back helps that starting lineup and the bench lineup look better. I'll wait to see them all together before jumping to conclusions when the spurs are trending much better than last year.

[scott]

What happened to Sochan tonight? I was at a bar watching and there was no sound. I presume he got injured… hopefully not serious?

[z0sa]

What happened to Sochan tonight? I was at a bar watching and there was no sound. I presume he got injured… hopefully not serious?

Sean and Jacob said something to do with hand, thumb specifically. No other news during the game.

[Pauleta14]

Say what you want, but sochan spreads the floor better than wemby at this point.

.

No question...

Too many sensitive ppl here to accept any nuance, my point was and is still that they don't complement each others on offense.

However Wemby is as much Sochan's kryptonite, we can see it anytime Wemby is on the bench, Jeremy's game becomes more fluid and a lot easier/simple for him. Wemby complicates it and forces him to play on aspects he's not the best at.

It's actually the case for almost every players, Cp3 included who has more difficulties with Vic than Jeremy

[scott]

No question...

Too many sensitive ppl here to accept any nuance, my point was and is still that they don't complement each others on offense.

However Wemby is as much Sochan's kryptonite, we can see it anytime Wemby is on the bench, Jeremy's game becomes more fluid and a lot easier/simple for him. Wemby complicates it and forces him to play on aspects he's not the best at.

It's actually the case for almost every players, Cp3 included who has more difficulties with Vic than Jeremy

How did you so rapidly become one of the worst posters on this site?

Delete your account.

[Pauleta14]

How did you so rapidly become one of the worst posters on this site?

Delete your account.

How do you want me to have any respect for you with post like this?

[spursparker9]

What happened to Sochan tonight? I was at a bar watching and there was no sound. I presume he got injured… hopefully not serious?

The game commentator said left thumb injury. Didn't elaborate much.

Can see Wemby is gassed having to defend the rim and grab those rebounds, without Sochan