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Bassey kept setting picks and on his roll to the basket the guard never passed it to him. he was very oopen sometimes.
Since Tre got injured again and it looked ugly, Castle will have to lead te bench unit, anyway.
Bassey kept setting picks and on his roll to the basket the guard never passed it to him. he was very oopen sometimes.
They're obviously jealous of Bassey. No other rational explanation.
[QUOTE=Chinook;11160856]They're obviously jealous of Bassey. No other rational explanation.[/QUOTE
i think he may be starting his roll too early and that leaves the guard with a double team defense that may prevent a good pass opp
You know that one shot by Victor that had Sean Elliott saying "I don't even know what to call that"?
I call it the "finger hook" - a cross between a finger roll and a hook shot. A finger hook.
Vassell needs to stay the sixth man. His microwave effect off the bench has given this team a much-needed shot in the arm. I also think we lose too much on defense when we put Castle on the bench and put Vassell in the starting lineup. Castle still has some growing and learning to do but I feel like in the long run he's going to be much more effective if he continues to start.
The starters are bad on offense, which is part of the reason why they keep getting down in games. The first unit needs to be able to accommodate a second high-usage threat. Maybe that's not essential this year, but what they have isn't sustainable. It's why trying to trade for someone like DFS makes no sense. They need scoring.
Last time I checked, the current SL for the Spurs was the lineup with the best net rating in the entire NBA, so I really doubt they are the reason they keep getting down in games, tbh.
Without doing any checking of any metric whatsoever, I'm almost certain the reason the Spurs have been getting into these big holes early are the awful lineup combinations containing Tre, Wesley, Keldon and Collins (sometimes all of them at the same time) that Mitch has been running in the first quarter when he starts with the rotation. Now that Vassell and Sochan are healthy, there should be less of a dropoff when the bench comes in, imho.
Last edited by DAF86; 12-02-2024 at 08:26 PM.
WEMVP!!!!
Difference is that we are winning more this year.
Sabonis always gives us fits, too.
I'd like to see him get a few tries before giving up on the idea
It is the opposite, the defense is leaking the last few games in the SL. The hot shooting in the second half is what negating the bad defense.
The current starting 5 has a ORTG of 130.7, third in the NBA for all 5-man lineups with a minimum of 75 minutes played (increasing the minimum to anything above 83 would improve them to second).
The bench needs more scoring, which is best achieved by having Devin come on as a sub, absorbing much of Keldon's usage. DFS for Keldon would be to improve upon KJ's defensive shortcomings. Throw Sochan into that mix and replace Collins with Jonas and all of a sudden you have a competent bench unit.
I want Castle to keep starting as much as anyone, but I don’t see Vassell stating off the bench once fully healthy. They’re just not gonna do it.
Really question is Steph v Champ v Barnes at the 3 in the SL, so long as we have CP3.
Because his teammates are hitting their shots this year and we added Castle
Is he ever going to be fully healthy?
I really feel like trying to shoehorn Vassell or Sochan back into the starting lineup it's just going backwards. If anything the Spurs need to be looking to acquire the player that is going to replace Barnes eventually. Everyone else needs to stay where they are.
They're depending on two old guys, a role-player and a rookie to carry the secondary offensive load. When those guys are having good shooting nights, it covers up their limitations. But without a secondary scoring option, they're going to struggle. I'm as happy as anyone that they're winning, but people seem to think doubling down on this recent success is the way to go, and it's just not. At least it isn't long term. As I said, if the goal is just to ride to the play-in, they don't have to do anything. But any type of system they operate that doesn't involve them having a second scorer in their first unit is just temporary.
Offense and defense play into each other. If you're turning the ball over or taking bad shots, it's going to result in better offense for the other team. I agree about what you said when it comes to their comebacks, but a lot of that hot shooting is bolstering the starting offense, with Barnes' elite shooting and Castle's above-expectations shooting being highlights. Yes, they've gotten some good games out of Keldon and now Vassell to help, but those guys can be expected to have a good scoring game between them a night. That's why the bench offense is going to be pretty stable if Vassell stays there. I imagine he'll come to the first unit sooner than later.
But 75 minutes isn't a lot. That's like four minutes a game. That's not nearly enough to where we can throw away the initial assumptions about this unit's offense, nor do I think the unit immediately falling apart offensively once one or more guys start getting subbed in is a reasonable counter-argument. I know you want the team to move for at least one more star, so I know you don't actually disagree with me. But my point is that the offense for the starters is fragile and unstable so long as they don't have a second scorer. I'm glad they're making the most of their time without one by shooting above where one would expect. But it wouldn't surprise me to see more games like Dallas or LAL where the bottom starts to fall out for the first-unit offense because they have no real offensive talent outside a Wemby still finding his way in a league game-planning against him.
The bench needs more scoring, which is best achieved by having Devin come on as a sub, absorbing much of Keldon's usage. DFS for Keldon would be to improve upon KJ's defensive shortcomings. Throw Sochan into that mix and replace Collins with Jonas and all of a sudden you have a competent bench unit.
That unit hasn't played 75 minutes, that's just the threshold I used to rank them. Our current SL has played 130 minutes over 12 games together (almost 11 mpg), which is on the low end but not too far off of what most top lineups have played together. Here are the top 10 5-man lineups (again with a threshold of 75 minutes played), their games played, their total minutes played, and their mpg together (I didn't list what the lineups were, just the statistics, with the point being that the sample size for our SL isn't a huge aberration compared to the other top 5-man lineups:
GP MP MPG 1 12 130 10.8 2 9 83 9.2 3 9 163 18.1 4 10 131 13.1 5 6 120 20.0 6 7 144 20.6 7 9 106 11.8 8 10 93 9.3 9 20 285 14.3 10 12 178 14.8
There are some with more MPG, some with less - but that is more a function of just the Spurs rotation philosophy. Last year the most frequently used lineup for the Spurs (Vassell-Jones-Champ-Sochan-Wembanyama) only played 10.9 mpg together (404 minutes over 37 games) and the second most used lineup (Johnson-Vassell-Jones-Sochan-Wemby, which was our closing lineups and was one of the best 5-man lineups in the league) only played 3.6 mpg (142 min over 39 games). The Spurs just rotate more than other teams.
The current SL may eventually start to fade from an offensive efficiency perspective, but I'd like see that happen in a more pronounced, measurable way before I go making major changes. My argument remains consistent at this point: Vassell and Sochan provide more incremental improvement to our bench unit right now than the the sum of [how much they'd improve the starting unit] + [how much Champ and Barnes would improve the bench unit].
I do want us to move for one more star, but it's not going to happen this season. For now I'd like to see how far we can go with some minor tweaks (which is why I've suggested Jonas and DFS, though Jonas would be by far the bigger priority for me), as that might help inform what the best fit is for that additional star (though I have pre-existing notions... #LauriThread2025). I think covering up some of our holes on this squad will help give us a lot of information on what Devin, Sochan and Castle are/will be and who the ideal target for that next star is. For example, depending on how the season goes, I could see someone like Fox or Booker being a better target than someone like Lauri (caveat: all of these targets are unlikely to be acquired... but I think there is value in understanding which archetype would be the best fit).
Dude, you don't get to play the small sample size card when you started the entire argument with a complete an utter lie, tbh.
Also, the Spurs SL has played way more than just 75 minutes together. That's only the minimum cut for lineups to qualify. Actually if the cut was bigger in minutes, the Spurs SL would be even higher in off efficiency.
The SL is giving up the worst OReb% recently + bottom tier to% for the opponent. The other team is exploiting the lack of size and physicality without Sochan in the SL. That is why Sochan needs to be a starter.
So let me get this straight. I say that in order for Vassell to be a good fit for the Spurs going forward, I want Vassell to take 12 shots a game. 8 of those shots should be threes. I want him engaged on defense and to make winning plays. Vassell does literally everything I say I want from him and you're bragging to me about him playing amazing when all he did was finally play how I said he should be playing all along? And I'm the supposed stupid one?
LeBowen: Look KA Vassell took 12 shots like you said he should.
8 of his 12 attempts were threes just like you said he should
Did you see him engaged on defense and making winning plays
Look at the great game Vassell had by doing everything KA said he should do to begin with!
I can't make this up. I should be charging money for my expertise
A really good strawman attempt a week later, but it's not going to work.So let me get this straight. I say that in order for Vassell to be a good fit for the Spurs going forward, I want Vassell to take 12 shots a game. 8 of those shots should be threes. I want him engaged on defense and to make winning plays. Vassell does literally everything I say I want from him and you're bragging to me about him playing amazing when all he did was finally play how I said he should be playing all along? And I'm the supposed stupid one?
LeBowen: Look KA Vassell took 12 shots like you said he should.
8 of his 12 attempts were threes just like you said he should
Did you see him engaged on defense and making winning plays
Look at the great game Vassell had by doing everything KA said he should do to begin with!
I can't make this up. I should be charging money for my expertise
Iirc, your entire argument back then was that Vassell isn't a winning player and with those things you listed, you'd most rather turn him into Champagnie because he's not intelligent enough to play a role that requires actual thinking and decision making.
If he's to live up to that $30M a year contract, he needs to take more than 12 shots and he definitely needs more shots at the rim because as I've said many times, Castle is our best paint penetrator, which is bad for the team. Keldon is random and others just don't do it enough.
He's not going to live up to that 30 million dollar a year contract. So that's out the door. The only way he could is if he makes an all-star team and I would love for you to tell me that he is an all-star player.
Yes my argument was that he isn't a winning player. And the way he was playing before the Kings game wasn't how a winning player plays. I stand by that. Then I laid very specific conditions for him to learn how to become a winning player. Then he does those things literally verbatim and you come bragging about how great he is playing. There's no strawman. Vassell literally played how I wanted him to play all along. That's not a strawman.
He won't be an all-star player, but the cap will steadily rise and $30M will be the new $20M in a few years. It's supposed to go to $154M next summer and then to 170, 187, 205 over the duration of Devin's contract.
If he becomes a steady 22/4/4 scorer on good efficency and a solid defender, his contract will be fair value...if he can stay healthy. And will be easily tradeable for an actual star if needed.
Yes my argument was that he isn't a winning player. And the way he was playing before the Kings game wasn't how a winning player plays. I stand by that. Then I laid very specific conditions for him to learn how to become a winning player. Then he does those things literally verbatim and you come bragging about how great he is playing. There's no strawman. Vassell literally played how I wanted him to play all along. That's not a strawman.
This is the shot chart from that game.
He took so many threes because he got hot.
Just one attempt (miss) in the restricted area and 0 FTs isn't how he should play.
He played like that because he just came back from injury, but we need him to get to the rim, draw fouls and collapse the defense more.
We wrote about it over the past week, the biggest issue with our offense isn't that we go cold from 3pt line, that happens to every team, but that we have just a couple of players who can consistently attack the paint and because of it our offense is really easy to stop if 3pts aren't falling.
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