Spurs trade ideas

[exstatic]

More like a trade target than a trade idea, but I wonder if the Spurs might look at Anfernee Simons, especially if they were to move on from Keldon. Simons is on a reasonable contract through the 25/26 season and a good shooter - not so much this season so far, but for his career, he is at over 38% from three on 11.7 attempts per 100 possessions. He is not a good defender, but neither is Keldon, and I think Simons could at least be passable in a good defensive team concept.

Simons is one of those guys like Hield who are really only valuable when they’re railing threes.

[LeBowen]

The more I think about it, the more I want a big trade with the Jazz to happen.
Trade that would solve most of our depth and role problems.

As I just wrote in Collins thread, Jazz's Collins would be ideal for us.
Great at both PF and C, can space the floor and be an inside presence on offense.
He's solid enough as a backup big and would run most slow footed backups off the floor.
He'd also enable Jeremy to be way more effective when Wemby sits.

My other take is that we need a triple threat scoring guard off the bench who can be the spark when things slow down.
I mentioned some names, but Sexton being on the trade block would be ideal to combine into one big trade that would work for both teams.
He's a career 39% 3pt shooter, at 43% this season. His assists went down because they're trying to develop so many guards and that's why he's available.

John Collins makes $26.5M and Sexton makes $18.3M.
Two of our unwanted players who need upgrading are Keldon at $19M and Zach at $16.7M.
$9.1M difference between those two pairs. Guess who makes $9.1M and would be redundant if we get Sexton? You guessed right, Tre Jones.

Jazz would free up extra $9.1M for the next season if they don't want Tre and they can easily trade him for some SRPs because contenders always need backup point guards.
The only extra money they'd take is Keldon's $17.5M in 26-27 season, but I don't think they'll be concerned with it since they're at the start of their rebuild and they don't have any useful SFs right now.

Rotation after the trade:
CP3/Sexton
Devin/Castle
Champagnie/Barnes
Jeremy/Collins
Wemby/Bassey

With Bassey being situational backup big and Collins taking his minutes.
Three actual forwards and one PF/C for 96 forward minutes seems good to me. With only one being a non-shooter.
Collins would easily get 25 minutes each night and more when he's doing well.

We'd also have 4 guards that are interchangeable and any combination would work.
When CP3 leaves, 3 of them wouldn't need another guard for the rotation. Just an emergency backup in case someone's injured. Champagnie can also slide to SG.


Obviously the picks question presents itself. How much would we have to add?
I think that MIN FRP and swap we got this draft would be enough because those are the only picks Jazz is missing to control Timberwolves future up until 20131.
I think turning a #8 pick in a weak draft into two key bench pieces and getting rid of Keldon/Collins in the process would be great work.

As for contracts, both Sexton and John Collins have one more year left after this one, but I don't think they can ask for more anywhere.
Collins got that deal when Hawks thought he'd be their #2, but he'll never reach that ceiling. With so few teams having cap space, noone will offer him another big contract.

[ginobilized]

If the Jazz do this trade, it's a no-brainer for us, strategically.

I see us a bit thin at the SF position and would keep the starters the same as the current lineup.

A 2nd unit of Sexton/Vassell/Sochan/Collins/Bassey would be formidable and seems like there would be some great chemistry there.

IF this happens, do we call him Jollins? Not sure I could live with myself and use that moniker.

[LeBowen]

I see us a bit thin at the SF position and would keep the starters the same as the current lineup.

Really? I think that lineups with Jeremy at SF and Barnes or Collins at PF would be perfectly fine. We'd have Champ/Barnes/Jeremy/Castle for SF position, depending on the rotations.

Then in the summer if CP3 leaves and the cap goes up by projected $14M, we'd be $25M under the cap, with Barnes on easily tradeable expiring $19M.
Consolidate picks to draft BPA or get a SF upgrade and move Champ to the bench.

Chances of all this happening are probably less than 1%, but a man can dream.

[quentin_compson]

Simons is one of those guys like Hield who are really only valuable when they’re railing threes.

First off, I disagree. Simons is also a decent enough secondary playmaker - last season, his assist percentage was at 27.6, this season it is at 23.6 so far.
Secondly, I think you don't quite understand how valuable players with the ability to shoot threes in the high 30s and at a high volume are in this day's NBA.

[scott]

Would you give up a Vassell, a Castle, a Sochan, and a Branham for him though? I don't think I would.

I'm operating under the assumption that by making this move we'd be a playoff team this year, and not look back.

If you expect our picks to be lotto picks, then they're probably off limits (but at that point you wouldn't need so many of them to land another player. Part of the reason you need 3 of them in this hypothetical is because they wouldn't project to be lotto picks).

[baseline bum]

I'm operating under the assumption that by making this move we'd be a playoff team this year, and not look back.

If you expect our picks to be lotto picks, then they're probably off limits (but at that point you wouldn't need so many of them to land another player. Part of the reason you need 3 of them in this hypothetical is because they wouldn't project to be lotto picks).

I do expect our 25 to be a lotto pick (and don't think TM3 would change that in this brutal conference), the Atlanta 25 to be a lotto pick, and good odds at least one of the 26 ATL swap and the 27 ATL pick is a lotto pick. And if not lotto picks then probably picks around 16. Sochan was a #9 pick, Castle would have probably gone around #8 in a normal draft (and 25 and 26 should be great drafts), Vassell went #11, Branham #20. I think that's the kind of talent you can expect out of those three picks and a swap but with the upside that maybe you get into the top 4 and get a legitimate star with one of them. I'm not dumping four good swings at the plate unless I'm getting a cornerstone piece. Markannen would have been one hence my willingness to include 2 of the 3 ATL unprotecteds plus two more firsts but no way on a role player of questionable value.

[scott]

More like a trade target than a trade idea, but I wonder if the Spurs might look at Anfernee Simons, especially if they were to move on from Keldon. Simons is on a reasonable contract through the 25/26 season and a good shooter - not so much this season so far, but for his career, he is at over 38% from three on 11.7 attempts per 100 possessions. He is not a good defender, but neither is Keldon, and I think Simons could at least be passable in a good defensive team concept.

If Simons were accepting of the Microwave Bench Scorer role (which is exactly the kind of role that wins 6MOY awards), then I like it. He's a flawed player, like most small-ish scorer combo guards, but still very useful. He's not like Hield at all, and that might actually be one of the laziest comparison's I've seen on this sight and if not for me thinking that the Bojan and Bogdan were brothers, one of the worst things I've read of late.

But I think this is exactly the archetype this team needs to round it out. That Simons/Cam Thomas/Jordan Poole/Coby White/Terry Rozier mold. The problem is a lot of these things think they should be the star of the team and not a bench player... and they all want to get paid a lot despite being a pretty common archetype (Lonnie Walker, Malaki Branham, etc being the recent budget versions that have come through the door here).

If the Jazz do this trade, it's a no-brainer for us, strategically.

I see us a bit thin at the SF position and would keep the starters the same as the current lineup.

A 2nd unit of Sexton/Vassell/Sochan/Collins/Bassey would be formidable and seems like there would be some great chemistry there.

IF this happens, do we call him Jollins? Not sure I could live with myself and use that moniker.

I agree about the deficiency it greats at SF. When Champ goes to the bench you'd have to make a decision to either go small (with Castle or Vassell at SF) or big (with Sochan or Barnes at SF). With that said, not the worst problem to have... just does force you into one of those two choices.

The Sexton/Jollins combo isn't my #1 preferred solution to Keldon/Zollins - but I like it well enough! Good thinking LeBowen.

I was thinking about Time Lord a little bit - and if Bassey can get a little more consistency (which comes with reps) then I think he could be a real possibility. Time Lord's biggest problem is that even though he's healthy now he needs to be severely load managed. That might actually be okay though with us trying to develop Bassey. It gets Bassey more regular playing time without over relying on him.

The same argument with Time Lord could apply to Steven Adams, who I've always loved as a player. And I think Adams would be a great person for Bassey to model his game after.

[scott]

I do expect our 25 to be a lotto pick (and don't think TM3 would change that in this brutal conference), the Atlanta 25 to be a lotto pick, and good odds at least one of the 26 ATL swap and the 27 ATL pick is a lotto pick. And if not lotto picks then probably picks around 16. Sochan was a #9 pick, Castle would have probably gone around #8 in a normal draft (and 25 and 26 should be great drafts), Vassell went #11, Branham #20. I think that's the kind of talent you can expect out of those three picks and a swap but with the upside that maybe you get into the top 4 and get a legitimate star with one of them. I'm not dumping four good swings at the plate unless I'm getting a cornerstone piece. Markannen would have been one hence my willingness to include 2 of the 3 ATL unprotecteds plus two more firsts but no way on a role player of questionable value.

If that's where I expected those picks to land, I wouldn't make that offer (also, I didn't offer ATL27, that's the one I want to keep - counting on the uncertainty of that pick to provide upside). I expect our pick this year to be somewhere between 12-18 (with about a 55% chance of being a lotto pick), the ATL pick to be somewhere between 11-18 (with around a 55% chance of NOT being a lotto pick), and SA27 to be in the 20s (it ing better be).

If we somehow had a crystal ball and could look into the future and say SA25 and ATL25 would absolutely be lottery picks - my offer to NOP would change to one of SA or ATL25 and SA 27.

[LeBowen]

I was thinking about Time Lord a little bit - and if Bassey can get a little more consistency (which comes with reps) then I think he could be a real possibility. Time Lord's biggest problem is that even though he's healthy now he needs to be severely load managed. That might actually be okay though with us trying to develop Bassey. It gets Bassey more regular playing time without over relying on him.

I don't think having two backup bigs with serious injury history would be a good idea. Especially not since they're similar players.
Having a backup who can stretch the floor would be invaluable. Especially if he can also play PF. Really hard to find those around the league, that's why I'd upgrade Collins to Collins.

Bottom line stays the same, I won't change my opinion that we need a triple threat, defense collapsing guard off the bench and a Collins upgrade. Can't make the play-in without those two players. We're really top heavy right now.

[baseline bum]

If that's where I expected those picks to land, I wouldn't make that offer (also, I didn't offer ATL27, that's the one I want to keep - counting on the uncertainty of that pick to provide upside). I expect our pick this year to be somewhere between 12-18 (with about a 55% chance of being a lotto pick), the ATL pick to be somewhere between 11-18 (with around a 55% chance of NOT being a lotto pick), and SA27 to be in the 20s (it ing better be).

If we somehow had a crystal ball and could look into the future and say SA25 and ATL25 would absolutely be lottery picks - my offer to NOP would change to one of SA or ATL25 and SA 27.

My bad, got the 27 picks switched up. Oh well I'll call that the Branham pick then since that was the #20.

I'm thinking the Spurs are 95% picking in the lotto this year when the playin teams so far are Denver, LA (who suck but own us), Minnesota, and Phoenix, and when I think Sacramento will probably finish the season with a better record than us too. Hawks probably 60-40 on playoffs but they'll either be the worst or second worst record in the playoffs most likely.

[LeBowen]

I'm thinking the Spurs are 95% picking in the lotto this year when the playin teams so far are Denver, LA (who suck but own us), Minnesota, and Phoenix, and when I think Sacramento will probably finish the season with a better record than us too. Hawks probably 60-40 on playoffs but they'll either be the worst or second worst record in the playoffs most likely.

I disagree about Sacramento, I think we're a better team when everyone gets back to full health.
Utah, Portland and NOLA are guaranteed bottom 3 at this point, if we are ahead of the Kings we need to beat just one more team.
Lakers are a bad matchup for us, but they seem to be close to implosion and might finally crumble this season.

Play-in games are random, especially with Wemby's potential to go off, but we probably wouldn't have a chance in the first round.
Still, it would be invaluable experience for the young guys.

[scott]

I don't think having two backup bigs with serious injury history would be a good idea. Especially not since they're similar players.
Having a backup who can stretch the floor would be invaluable. Especially if he can also play PF. Really hard to find those around the league, that's why I'd upgrade Collins to Collins.

Bottom line stays the same, I won't change my opinion that we need a triple threat, defense collapsing guard off the bench and a Collins upgrade. Can't make the play-in without those two players. We're really top heavy right now.

I disagree a little about Jollins. The flexibility of a PF/C is nice, but it in some ways recreates some of the same problems we have with Zollins: he'll get abused inside and on the boards by big physical C's like Zubac, Jonas, Gafford, etc.

Looking at DunksAndThrees, here is how Zollins and Jollins grade out on the three most important metrics I want from our backup C, and then compared to other guys who fit more closely what I'd want from that position. I included Sengun at the end just for reference as he's considered "soft" inside, but he actually grades out better in these metrics than both Collins'. I also included Jalen Smith just for our friend exstatic. The numbers represent their percentile ranking compared to the rest of the league:

	Zollins	Jollins	Jonas	Adams	TimeLord	Zubac	Jak	Drummond	Plumlee	Capela	Lively	Gafford	CBass	Sengun	Jalen Smith
BLK	82	73	81	80	98	83	91	79	80	89	96	98	99	76	87
OREB	82	90	94	99	93	94	95	99	88	98	95	92	97	91	90
DREB	77	81	99	92	91	97	92	100	97	96	90	84	94	92	91

Looking at this list just makes me more pissed off that this front office ever thought Collins was worth this extension. Zollins and Jollins are the two of the highest paid dudes on this list... and they are the two I'd actually want the least as a backup C

[Dverde]

no to Sexton, that player is not the answer.

[scott]

My bad, got the 27 picks switched up. Oh well I'll call that the Branham pick then since that was the #20.

I'm thinking the Spurs are 95% picking in the lotto this year when the playin teams so far are Denver, LA (who suck but own us), Minnesota, and Phoenix, and when I think Sacramento will probably finish the season with a better record than us too. Hawks probably 60-40 on playoffs but they'll either be the worst or second worst record in the playoffs most likely.

Yeah that's not too far off from where I put us... but #11 in the west is more than likely going to result in pick #12. If ATL makes the playoffs, they'll end up with pick #15 or higher, if they get booted in the play-in they'll probably be pick #11.

So if it were guaranteed to be pick #11 and #12, I'd offer one of those and SA27.

[rascal]

I disagree about Sacramento, I think we're a better team when everyone gets back to full health.
Utah, Portland and NOLA are guaranteed bottom 3 at this point, if we are ahead of the Kings we need to beat just one more team.
Lakers are a bad matchup for us, but they seem to be close to implosion and might finally crumble this season.

Play-in games are random, especially with Wemby's potential to go off, but we probably wouldn't have a chance in the first round.
Still, it would be invaluable experience for the young guys.

The experience of losing in the first round means nothing if the roster isn't upgraded. This core roster is going no where and just hoping for internal developement is not the way to improve enough to be a contender.

[LeBowen]

The experience of losing in the first round means nothing if the roster isn't upgraded.

It actually means a lot to those players individually.

This core roster is going no where and just hoping for internal developement is not the way to improve enough to be a contender.

Yeah, we definitely aren't on pace to improve from last season's 22 wins.
Sometimes I wonder why some of you even come in here if all you're going to do is act as if you're about to hang yourself with all the defeatism.
Can things be better? Yes.
Do we need to improve the roster? Yes.
Are we making progress? Yes, and it's not even up for discussion.

What's even our core roster?
Wemby, a guy we just drafted looks like he'll be the second best player on the roster in a year or two, Devin and maybe Jeremy, with Champagnie emerging as great long-term bench piece.
There wasn't any core roster last season.

[baseline bum]

It actually means a lot to those players individually.



Yeah, we definitely aren't on pace to improve from last season's 22 wins.
Sometimes I wonder why some of you even come in here if all you're going to do is act as if you're about to hang yourself with all the defeatism.
Can things be better? Yes.
Do we need to improve the roster? Yes.
Are we making progress? Yes, and it's not even up for discussion.

What's even our core roster?
Wemby, a guy we just drafted looks like he'll be the second best player on the roster in a year or two, Devin and maybe Jeremy, with Champagnie emerging as great long-term bench piece.
There wasn't any core roster last season.

Yeah this team being around .500 is a huge jump. I think this would be a playoff team most years but the West is just so ridiculous this last couple of years and everyone the Spurs will be fighting with for that last playoff spot is loaded with high end veterans: e.g., Jokic, Edwards, Davis, Booker, Durant, Sabonis, Fox, etc.

[scott]

It actually means a lot to those players individually.



Yeah, we definitely aren't on pace to improve from last season's 22 wins.
Sometimes I wonder why some of you even come in here if all you're going to do is act as if you're about to hang yourself with all the defeatism.
Can things be better? Yes.
Do we need to improve the roster? Yes.
Are we making progress? Yes, and it's not even up for discussion.

What's even our core roster?
Wemby, a guy we just drafted looks like he'll be the second best player on the roster in a year or two, Devin and maybe Jeremy, with Champagnie emerging as great long-term bench piece.
There wasn't any core roster last season.

Yeah, and it's not like if we make the playoffs this year we can't and won't continue to improve the team (we will, however, need to start cashing in those trade chips, and not for more 20131 swaps).

Rascal is just stuck in the permatank mindset where the only way to improve the team is to get a top pick and draft the guy who can jump highest. Of course, that's how you end up like his favorite team, the Blazers.

[LeBowen]

Yeah, and it's not like if we make the playoffs this year we can't and won't continue to improve the team (we will, however, need to start cashing in those trade chips, and not for more 20131 swaps).

Rascal is just stuck in the permatank mindset where the only way to improve the team is to get a top pick and draft the guy who can jump highest. Of course, that's how you end up like his favorite team, the Blazers.

Meanwhile, OKC has just 1 top10 pick of their own in their rotation.
Grizzlies have 3, got Edey as third just because their entire roster got injured last year.
Rockets have 4, but Sheppard is a non-factor if we're talking their current success.
Mavs have 1, make it 2 if you want to include Lively they traded down for.

That's the top of the conference.

Spurs currently have our own #1, #4, #9, #11 picks as core members of the rotation and arguably the 4 most untradeable players on the roster.
How many more do we really need, especially since our #1 pick is unquestionably going to be the best player in the league in no time.

I'd honestly ban teams from having top10 picks in more than 3 consecutive seasons. If you're incompetent, nothing helps. Spurs have the second longest playoff drought in the league right now and some peole still want to tank, that's just embarrassing.

[scott]

Meanwhile, OKC has just 1 top10 pick of their own in their rotation.
Grizzlies have 3, got Edey as third just because their entire roster got injured last year.
Rockets have 4, but Sheppard is a non-factor if we're talking their current success.
Mavs have 1, make it 2 if you want to include Lively they traded down for.

That's the top of the conference.

Spurs currently have our own #1, #4, #9, #11 picks as core members of the rotation and arguably the 4 most untradeable players on the roster.
How many more do we really need, especially since our #1 pick is unquestionably going to be the best player in the league in no time.

I'd honestly ban teams from having top10 picks in more than 3 consecutive seasons. If you're incompetent, nothing helps. Spurs have the second longest playoff drought in the league right now and some peole still want to tank, that's just embarrassing.

Yep. Especially considering we have the draft capital to acquire what we need via trade. There is no need for us to have to rely on draft picks (which come with risk) going forward when we can just go out and buy sure things.

And just for good measure... #LauriThread2025

[baseline bum]

Yep. Especially considering we have the draft capital to acquire what we need via trade. There is no need for us to have to rely on draft picks (which come with risk) going forward when we can just go out and buy sure things.

And just for good measure... #LauriThread2025

From the start I have wanted to consolidate those picks; wish we could have done it for Lauri back when those ATL picks looked golden.

[KobesAchilles]

Assuming the Kings miss the playoffs again? Would they trade us Sabonis or Fox? I like the idea of going after one of these two players in the offseason. Also I would trade a SRP for DJ. I miss his cryptic posts

[LeBowen]

Assuming the Kings miss the playoffs again? Would they trade us Sabonis or Fox? I like the idea of going after one of these two players in the offseason. Also I would trade a SRP for DJ. I miss his cryptic posts

Self-proclaimed expert wants to get a big who doesn't protect the rim or space the floor and is on a max contract for the next 4 years.

[KobesAchilles]

Self-proclaimed expert wants to get a big who doesn't protect the rim or space the floor and is on a max contract for the next 4 years.

It's weird bc I thought we already had a rim protector...

I like the way Sabonis plays. He's a very smart player, sets tough screens, moves well without the ball. He doesn't have to shoot it 15 times a game to impact the game. He's a savy passer and makes heads up plays whenever there is traffic in the lane. Plus he's a monster rebounder.

It is true that he isn't a very good defender. But if he were that, then he'd probably be the best player in the league tbh and Sac wouldn't want to trade him