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  1. #176
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    If we're taking Huerter's bad contract, I'd offer just one of those ATL/SA picks.
    Part of that is buying into him shooting league average on 5-6 attempted 3 balls. Same way you consider Jimmy Buckets and eat Duncan Robinson in giving up 3-4 FRPs.

  2. #177
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    Don't most of the Fox/Spurs rumors have the trade happening this summer rather than at this season's deadline? If so, the whole CP3/Fox thing won't be a problem because CP3 will be a free agent. The Spurs can tell him he's welcome to stick around if he's willing to come off the bench, and if not then thanks for a great season and good luck wherever you go.
    Part of the possible reason or doing a trade mid-season for the Kings is that their draft pick is protected top 12. In a draft this loaded, getting that pick might be worth taking a step back. If they are a 10 seed and don't advance in the play-in, they probably lose their pick.

    It's easier to just sit guys with any kind of injury and not making a trade, but a trade is possible.

    They did love Devin Carter in the draft, going with him and future picks and their own pick in 25 with pressure from Rich Paul ... Maybe it happens? Still a longshot

  3. #178
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    On the generalized, traditional leaderboards without consideration for games played thresholds, Fox is 10th in the league in scoring this year, and 10th last season.

    In the 3 seasons before, he was 20th (22-23), 23rd (21-22), and 16th (20-21)

    If you include games played thresholds and just look up the official top scorers normally in the NBA app, he's top 15 in those seasons 21-22 thru 22-23, and he's 8th place in points per game this season and last.

    Scorers like him, dependable big time scorers are going to be VERY hard to come by.

    This is the opportunity.

    I like him more than the deals for Markannen. Markannen would and still will cost a fortune in assets, isn't a reliable top 15 scorer, is a good 3 point shooter but not a great one, and doesn't particularly rebound or pass and create. Defense might be in Fox's favor but could just be a wash. Age is the same.

  4. #179
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    From the 20:25 mark

    He sees Wemby as a top10 player ready for le contention and Fox as an ideal partner to compete RIGHT AWAY


  5. #180
    Believe. LeBowen's Avatar
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    He sees Wemby as a top10 player ready for le contention and Fox as an ideal partner to compete RIGHT AWAY
    He's probably the best guard partner for Wemby we can get.



    Top20 guards by PPG this season.

    LaMelo - re .
    SGA - no chance to get him.
    Luka - same.
    Fox - matter of this discussion.
    Lillard - 34.
    Brunson - no chance to get him, 6'1 with exploitable defense.
    Maxey - another undersized chucker.
    Herro - his best year so far, awful defender.
    Cade - no way to get him, slow and methodical guard, not what we need. Bad defender.
    Kyrie - 32.
    Steph -36.
    Trae - do I even need to say anything?
    Garland - too small, but I actually like him as a player.
    Murray - overrated chucker who finally got exposed.
    Haliburton - scammed his way into a supermax.
    Coby - decent microwave scorer, not someone you rely on.
    Schroeder - 31 and a role player.
    Ivey - actually an interesting player, but not what we need.
    Derrick - no chance to get him back.
    Sexton - I'd like him as a 6th man.

    Sorting by assists adds CP3, Westbrook and Tyus Jones on the list, I don't think any explanation is needed.

    If we exclude players we have absolutely 0% chance to obtain, Fox is easily the best established guard target we can get.
    Imo, it's either Fox or just reliable veterans and hoping Castle develops.

  6. #181
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    Another thing to like about Fox: be was the Clutch Player of the Year award winner in 22-23

    How could you not want him next to Wemby?

  7. #182
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    Looking at his game logs, he's consistent. He doesn't score 40 one night and six the next. Having a guy who can score night-in night-out is valuable. The danger is that he seems to be very inconsistent from three. Vic needs one goddamn sharpshooter to have for the two man game. His chemistry with McDermott never materialized and nobody else he's played with is worth a from three.

  8. #183
    Believe. LeBowen's Avatar
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    Looking at his game logs, he's consistent. He doesn't score 40 one night and six the next. Having a guy who can score night-in night-out is valuable. The danger is that he seems to be very inconsistent from three. Vic needs one goddamn sharpshooter to have for the two man game. His chemistry with McDermott never materialized and nobody else he's played with is worth a from three.
    The issue is that their spacing is so horrible and he takes a lot of off the dribble 3pts, I'm sure he'd be in 36-38% range if he was taking normal jumpshots.
    For example, 101 assisted FG this season and 188 unassisted.
    But he's got 38 assisted 3pts and 24 unassisted even though he took 50 more pull up jumphots than catch and shoot ones.

  9. #184
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    NGL, seeing the Tony Parker highlights that League Pass shows during commercials makes me more interested in Fox.

  10. #185
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    This really is the kind of deal they've been waiting for. You'll never get someone in a trade who's this established and significantly younger than Fox. Because every team will extend that guy off his rookie deal to see what is possible.

    Cade Cunningham was extended, so was LaMelio, so those kinds of guys in their rookie deals, forget about it. Maybe you can get someone 25 or 26, but at that point it's just splitting hairs considering Fox just turned 27

    I don't see a better point guard available on the horizon. I doubt Ja Morant gets to a trade market in the next 3 years.

  11. #186
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    For those who want Fox, what’s your best package for him? Actually… give me two. One that sends out one of Devin or Castle, and one that keeps them both. Be realistic, homers.

  12. #187
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    Devin, Collins, a FRP. I can live with that. Not sure about the FO, however.

  13. #188
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    Don't see the sending out Castle

    Sending out Devin:

    Vassell, Zollins, 25 ATL first, return of Kings swap, 2 misc seconds

    For Fox, Huerter

    --

    Keeping Vassell

    Keldon, Zollins, 25 ATL, 27 ATL, 25 CHI, 25 CHA, Kings swap return

    For

    Fox, Len

    --

    In general I would be fine with sending Sochan but can't picture him and Keegan fitting together at all

    Tre in place of Zollins wood decrease the outgoing by a potential first at least
    Last edited by objective; 12-23-2024 at 08:59 PM.

  14. #189
    Believe. LeBowen's Avatar
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    Time to watcg some Fox highlights to calm myself down.

    Call the Kings and tell them Devin is available, 20131 swap is returned and three more FRPs.
    Tre, Keldon, Collins, Branham, Wesley are also available for free if they're interested.

  15. #190
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    Devin is just not him... If we could get a bonafide 25 ppg over multiples, scores at all three levels... and Devin is the main piece in that deal, you run away with that trade. I doubt the Kings want that though. It'll be a King's ransom for Fox.

  16. #191
    SA fan since 03 playoffs spursparker9's Avatar
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    Give up Vassell = ok

    Give up Castle = not ok

  17. #192
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Ultimately, my tune might change on Fox in the summer, but I'm definitely out on him for a move now (not even sure he's truly available now). There are just too many questions around what we already have to make that kind of move, notably two big questions, which happen to be of extra importance relative to discussing Fox: 1) Is Devin him? and 2) What is Castle?

    Fox will almost certainly cost Devin or Castle (Kings fans seem to want both, which ain't happening). The good thing about Castle is that he offers flexibility and could theoretically play very well with Fox or Devin (though the pairing with Devin is a little more theoretical as we've seen more of Castle as a ball handling SG than a lead PG). If Castle could be a true lead PG, and Devin could prove consistent and healthy, then I'm not sure I want to use assets to disrupt that pairing - I'd rather save my chips to make a move for the ideal wing archetype (Markkanen, Murphy III, Cam Johnson, Jalen Johnson, MPJ are names that all fit, IMO - not all will be available, and they all carry varying costs).

    A Fox-Castle pairing is easier to envision because we've already seen Castle in this role and it's easy to understand what he brings and what needs to be developed. SpursBills laid it out in his post, and I echoed. You'll need to match these two up with sharp shooting 3&D wings. Champ and Barnes are okay for now, but you'd want to upgrade those. If Castle develops into an average shooter, you still need those types of wings because Fox is only an average shooter. But your backcourt defense is improved over having Devin in there.

    A Fox-Devin pairing lets you play Sochan, who can pick up some of Devin's defensive shortcomings with his perimeter defensive skill, and Devin adds a lot more spacing versus Fox-Castle. I think this actually be one of the best pairings for Devin, honestly, because a lot of ball handling and playmaking would be taken off his plate and less reliance on him attacking the rim, and he'll be able to be more of an opportunistic slasher going towards the rim while putting his jumper to great effectiveness.

    A Castle-Devin pairing, which we all assume is the default setting, carries all of the unknown variables that I'm hoping we get answers to this season. Can Devin become more consistent? Can Castle function as a lead PG for extended periods of time? I'm hoping we get some significant Castle-Devin-Champ-Barnes-Wemby lineup minutes to see how it looks. So far we've only seen 4 minutes of this lineup and 5 minutes of the lineup with Bassey in for Wemby, 4 minutes of it with Collins in for Wemby. I need to see more Castle-Dev-Champ-Barnes.

    Honestly, the player who fits the least in any of these scenarios is Sochan, who I have been really been pleased with this season and am starting to like a lot, but I think his best role might be as bench glue-guy if Castle is going to a major player for us. If Castle develops into an average shooter, pairing him with Devin is Jeremy's best pathway to be a starter, because I've lost any hope Jeremy will develop into an average shooter.

    It's most likely going to cost us, at a minimum, Castle or Dev, 2-3 FRPs, and their swap back. I'm not concerned about the contract - that is easy to work around, especially right now. I am more concerned about what other deals this might crowd out.

    I do think we need to start moving some picks, because while "there is no rush" - the are starting to come due. I don't want to punt them for anymore 20131 picks, because those are also less valuable as trade chips. With that said, I'm not even sure we need to make a move for a bona fide "tier 1" star (whatever that means and whomever is in that category). A player of Fox's caliber (like a Markkanen) is a good fit next to Wemby, especially if Castle develops like we hope. But Fox specifically still leaves you having to fill the same holes you have now on the wings... I'd rather get a Malik Monk-type player to be my 3rd guard, and "blow my load" trying to get someone like Markkanen.
    At the risk of sounding over reactionary… what I saw from Devin tonight against PHI might go a long way at answering some questions for me… I’m not ready to fully trade in my #LauriThread2025 membership for #TeamFox2025 gear… but my needle is pointing ever more slightly towards the Fox camp.

    Will have fun posting some Fox trade scenarios a little later after the kids go to bed, which is past midnight for you Texans

  18. #193
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    For those who want Fox, what’s your best package for him? Actually… give me two. One that sends out one of Devin or Castle, and one that keeps them both. Be realistic, homers.
    This one works under the cap:

    To Spurs:
    De'Aron Fox
    Cam Johnson

    To Kings:
    Devin Vassell
    2025 ATL
    2026 Spurs w/ ATL swap
    Rip up 2031 swap with Sac

    To Nets:
    Jeremy Sochan
    Zach Collins
    2030 Best of Spurs/Mavs/Wolves (Mavs top 1 protected)

  19. #194
    Believe.
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    For those who want Fox, what’s your best package for him? Actually… give me two. One that sends out one of Devin or Castle, and one that keeps them both. Be realistic, homers.
    I would send Devin and Keldon or Collins + the best of Atlanta/Spurs 25, plus Atlanta swap 26 and return of Kings swap and 2 second round picks for Fox and Huerter

  20. #195
    Believe.
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    This one works under the cap:

    To Spurs:
    De'Aron Fox
    Cam Johnson

    To Kings:
    Devin Vassell
    2025 ATL
    2026 Spurs w/ ATL swap
    Rip up 2031 swap with Sac

    To Nets:
    Jeremy Sochan
    Zach Collins
    2030 Best of Spurs/Mavs/Wolves (Mavs top 1 protected)
    I would love it but why would Brooklyn do this trade?

  21. #196
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    I would love it but why would Brooklyn do this trade?
    Cam is a little old for the timeline of a tanking team, Sochan is making a serious year three jump and is on their timeline, and a pick that's best of three is likely to be pretty good. I'd hate to lose Sochan but he can't be a core piece starting next to Fox and Castle. Alternatively the Spurs could trade them Castle but that looks like it would be an unforgivable mistake with the potential he is flashing right now.

  22. #197
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    I would love it but why would Brooklyn do this trade?
    Not my trade but Cam Johnson is turning 29 in a couple of months.

    Getting a first that's the best of 3 teams AND Sochan?

    That's a good deal for them

  23. #198
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    Cam is a little old for the timeline of a tanking team, Sochan is making a serious year three jump and is on their timeline, and a pick that's best of three is likely to be pretty good. I'd hate to lose Sochan but he can't be a core piece starting next to Fox and Castle. Alternatively the Spurs could trade them Castle but that looks like it would be an unforgivable mistake with the potential he is flashing right now.
    fair enough. Spurs would compete right away with Wemby, Fox, Castle and Cam. Castle would need to work his ass off this summer to improve his jumpshot and we would be light at the PF position.

  24. #199
    Believe. LeBowen's Avatar
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    No way Spurs trade Jeremy for Cam, they'd rather add another FRP.

  25. #200
    Veteran ginobilized's Avatar
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    The Trade Machine accepts this one:

    SA: Fox/Cam Johnson

    Sac: Vassell/Branham

    BRKLYN: KJ/Cissoko

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