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Wemby 6th in NBA's MVP ladder.
Difference between Wemby and the rest of the roster (save CP3) is not just the gulf of pure talent, but stuff like this: the little things that don't show up in the boxscore but emanates from high BBIQ and general court/situational awareness.. Spurs used to have a bunch of those guys back in the day (Timmy, Manu, Wingstop Bowen, etc..). This team is so severally lacking in players with intangibles and basketball smarts on top of basic skills .
Wemby 6th in NBA's MVP ladder.
Imagine how high would Fox be if he was a good player, am I right?
Wemby is 5th for all intents and purposes beacuse Luka won't play enough games, out for at least a month.
Should be between him and Mitchel for 1st team all-NBA if he keeps this up.
I've come around on Fox at the right price, tbh. He still wouldn't be anywhere close to my first option. Adding him just leaves very small room for flaws in a lineup (the other 3 guys besides Fox and Wemby would need all to be, at lest, average defenders and good shooters. What do we do with Sochan and Castle in that case?).
Last guy who also embodied this was Derrick White.
this is why I am not opposed to drafting Collin Murray Boyles even with Sochan on hand.
just get us smart players and figure it out later.
I'd genuinely like you to go to Fox topic, scroll back to my lists of potential targets on every position and name the realistic players you'd rather get. Because there aren't any.
Fox is an average team defender due to his speed and the ability to read passing lanes. Scott posted all the defensive metrics in his topic.the other 3 guys besides Fox and Wemby would need all to be, at lest, average defenders and good shooters.
That's the question regardless of who's our point guard. Would be the question even if we got Curry.What do we do with Sochan and Castle in that case?
Imo, Sochan and Castle can't play together until at least one of them develops a reliable jumpshot.
If we assume no other deals would be made after Fox (Cam Jonhson anyone?), I'd start Fox/Champ/Barnes/Wemby and one of Castle/Sochan depending on the matchup.
They'd be point of attack defenders and glue guys, then it'd be about who could play better defense on opposition's best player.
That's if we're talking next season.
For this season it would definitely be CP3/Fox/Jeremy/Barnes/Wemby which I agree is suboptimal, but there's no chance CP3 gets benched.
If Fox asks for a trade before the deadline, we can lowball the Kings because the price certainly won't be rising on a player entering his final year.
In the end, back to my original question for you, check the Fox topic and I think you'll realize there aren't any better targets for us if we're talking all-stars who would be a solid fit with Wemby and wouldn't require a ridiculous haul to get them.
Other than Fox, we can just hope we strike gold in the draft or find another reclamation project who turns out to be way better than advertised.
I'm also all for BPA, but at some point it's just not worth it unless we plan on trading some of the current guys.
We already have a serious issue when it comes to Castle/Jeremy long-term fit, we just can't add another non-shooter. We simply must get a shooter in this draft, regardless of the position.
Or trade Jeremy, which I wouldn't be a fan of.
Many were opposed to drafting Castle because of his lack of displaying much shooting in college, but it was always in his bag.
the team needs top flight scorers, not strictly shooters.
scorers are hoopers who know how to play and exhibit great ball handling skill.
you don’t get to your spots if you don’t have good ball handling in the nba.
What im talking about is primarily a guard or wing, because the likelihood of a scorer coming from that position is high.
you’d have to be a unicorn or long, athletic 6’9” guy with guard skills to be a scorer otherwise. And those won’t be available where we’re picking anyways.
so the next best thing if the Spurs can’t find a scorer is to find players who can play. CMB can play. He’ll be a Naz Reid utility guy, maybe better.
bottomline: y’all need to think outside the box when it comes to shooters. Some players are hoopers and have all sort of skills hidden underneath. A guy who is used as a 3 and d shooter in college or overseas pro league isn’t likely to develop three level scoring like so many here thought Risacher could become. I said his ceiling was probably Rashard Lewis and he’s probably not even likely to meet that. I don’t think Wemby’s missing a Rashard Lewis type guy next to him. I think he needs an ISO scorer a la Kobe. Vassell dreamed he was that, but he’s not. I think the Spurs had the right idea with Vassell, but happens and he’s failing expectations. Time to try to find another guy that’s similar.
We had only one non-shooter when we drafted Castle.
Obviously we can draft another non-shooter and never play him with Jeremy and/or Castle, but we need to address our shooting issues somehow.
Agreed, but in today's league you're not a top flight scorer if you aren't a good shooter unless you're a physical monster.the team needs top flight scorers, not strictly shooters.
I've hated that term ever since Harden said he's a hooper. I associate it with skilled, but lazy players who think their skill is enough and they don't need to always put the maximum effort in.scorers are hoopers who know how to play and exhibit great ball handling skill.
I think Rashard type player is exactly what Wemby needs considering the rest of the roster and that's why I was desperate for Markkanen. That's why I wouldn't have anything against MPJ if he's available.I don’t think Wemby’s missing a Rashard Lewis type guy next to him. I think he needs an ISO scorer a la Kobe. Vassell dreamed he was that, but he’s not. I think the Spurs had the right idea with Vassell, but happens and he’s failing expectations. Time to try to find another guy that’s similar.
While we obviously need someone who's going to get to the rim at will, right now we're hoping Castle can be that guy. We'd enable him by having elite shooters around him and Wemby.
What we're doing right now won't work.
Over the past 4 games Victor has made 23 threes, the rest of the roster combined made 37.
Wemby can't be making almost 40% of threes the team makes. It's ridiculous. And it's not like they're not taking enough.
softest player since shawn bradley
Rashard on this team (and any team for that matter) as your top 3 guy would make this team a second round exit. Let’s pretend we had that type of player who made shots on a consistent basis. He’d get no more shot attempts than Barnes or Champagnie is having right now, with the way Wemby wants to play. It wouldn’t be a “Splash Bro” type acquisition. Wemby is not the playmaker that Curry is, and all that it would look like is a team that has all its shooters stand on the three point line, predictable drive and kicks, and nothing else. When it’s crunch time, Wemby needs his second best player to be able to make something happen when he can’t. Do you think when the playoffs are here, Rashard Lewis (or Markkanen) would be able to create something out of nothing? I don’t. And yet you wish the team would have a third of its cap invested in something like that. Naahhh, the Spurs and Wemby need more than just those types of players.
for the record, I was pro-Markkanen to come here and still am. I’m arguing the point that the team’s biggest need is a shooter / or that the Spurs should prioritize a shooter over everything else. That’s not the team’s biggest problem.
Yeah, I already saw that post/topic, our difference is that you seem way more desperate to add a player now, than me.
Yeah, right now, there doesn't seem to be better options than Fox, but 6 months from now, we don't know. Heck, for all we know, Fox might not even be available.
There are players in the league that I wouldn't have to think twice about giving up young talent and multiple picks for, Fox isn't one of those guys. I need to really think about it before gicing all that for Fox.
For example (and I know what I'm about to say isn't precisely popular right now), most folks seem to be OK with giving up Vassell and multiple first rounders for Fox. I know it doesn't seem like it right now (with Vassell just being inserted back into the SL and clearly out of confidence) but there isn't a far stretched scenario out there where Vassell in the near future becomes a 20ish ppg player, with good to elite 3pt shooting and average to good defense as a 6'6" guard. I would argue that type of player would be more useful for us in the long run than a De'aron Fox. So straight up would be a bad trade, then add the multiple first round picks.
There's another scenario where Castle becomes an all-star on ball PG, Fox would be a bad fit next to that version of Castle.
There are many things to consider other than "there's no-one better available, let's give up the farm for him", tbh.
supposed to be top 5 if only they win the last 2 games vs sixers and knicks
I think ideally we could get away with a upper-mid-tier point guard until Castle is ready.
Let's say someone like Derrick would be ideal. Or even Suns CP3, version that could still reliably get into the paint and constantly abuse bigs with his FT-line jumper.
That type of playmaker combined with someone like Markkanen and Wemby would be ideal for this stage of development.
You're saying second round exit as if it's a negative thing. That's top4 teams in a stacked conference, we're a long way from a second round exit right now.
I just feel like a lot of people in here have their version of future roster which is fair, but then straight up refuse to adapt to the situation around the league. (not you, but in general)
As in we'd all like to have a certain type of players, but if they don't exist, we have to adapt.
I made those lists with the near future (2025 and 2026) in mind. Situation won't change much. If you don't believe me, there was a topic this summer about which SF/PF Spurs should pursue and I made a big list, nothing changed.
Some unexpected moves happen, but if we're talking player who'd fit us, it's not likely.
Noone would be happier than me if Devin actually turns it around and becomes our Middleton and we get our future SF in this draft, but that's not a realistic expectation.
That type of player would obviously be more useful, but it's Devin's 5th year and at some point we have to be realistic. I was against trading him for Markkanen, but as thing stand now, he's losing value fast.For example (and I know what I'm about to say isn't precisely popular right now), most folks seem to be OK with giving up Vassell and multiple first rounders for Fox. I know it doesn't seem like it right now (with Vassell just being inserted back into the SL and clearly out of confidence) but there isn't a far stretched scenario out there where Vassell in the near future becomes a 20ish ppg player, with good to elite 3pt shooting and average to good defense as a 6'6" guard. I would argue that type of player would be more useful for us in the long run than a De'aron Fox. So straight up would be a bad trade, then add the multiple first round picks.
The entire Fox trade idea premise came from those two point guard discussions. Many good teams run it and it wouldn't be an issue if you have guards who are also good off the ball. It's an issue only when the point guard who's not on the ball just ball watches.There's another scenario where Castle becomes an all-star on ball PG, Fox would be a bad fit next to that version of Castle.
Obviously and I disagree with the farm argument because Spurs have 12 FRPs, 5 swaps and 18 SRPs up until 20131.There are many things to consider other than "there's no-one better available, let's give up the farm for him", tbh.
With 3 positive value young players. 4 if you want to include Champagnie. Contenders would kill for a shooter with size and solid defense on just $3M a year until 2027.
Wemby is on a bargain deal for 2.5 more seasons and is already 6th in MVP race. We should be taking advantage of that contract and be legit contenders in 26-27 season at least.
The only flaw in the lists you provided, IMO, is that it leaves out some "up and coming" options (since your lists were just the top scorers at each position). A guy like Trey Murphy III (ignoring whether or not he could actually be had, or the cost, etc. for now) doesn't show up on your list but I'd say he's be a viable option to try to land as our #2. I don't think our trade acquisition targets should solely be limited to guys who are proven #2 right now, but also include some prospects to become one. This will be riskier, but perhaps more attainable.
With that said, I'm in on Fox and generally agree with your overall point, that there aren't a lot of options out there (though you never know which ones might come available in the future... although I'd also say you shouldn't rely on ANY coming available in the future).
I said that my list is missing some players on rookie deals, but as soon as one of those starts performing well, they're in for a max rookie extension and the asking price is 5 FRPs.
The only way to get a player like that as a second option is to get them before they playing like potential all-stars.
Again, it's about the asking price, timeline and contracts.With that said, I'm in on Fox and generally agree with your overall point, that there aren't a lot of options out there (though you never know which ones might come available in the future... although I'd also say you shouldn't rely on ANY coming available in the future).
Other than absolutely untouchable players, there aren't many I'd want on our roster.
Let's just hope Devin gets back on track and Castle gets back to 25mpg+.
The only pressing need that absolutely must be sorted out before the deadline is replacing Collins with a legit backup big.
Valanciunas is right there, Wizards won't mind taking a negative contract, just dump a handful of seconds on them.
Or even a straight up swap with Tre like you suggested.
This is what frustrates me about the "be patient" philosophy: Wemby is a Top 10 NBA player RIGHT NOW who is on an MLE-equivalent deal for the next 2.5 years. I don't see why we need to wait until Wemby is even better (which he will become regardless) to make the team around him better. As I've pointed out, and a lot of people around here misconstrue, the Spurs currently have 60% of the cap tied up in 4 players who are underperforming their contracts (Vassell, Johnson, Barnes, Collins). Despite that, we are 15-15 and compe ive against top teams. Imagine if that 60% were put to better use.
A lot of people misinterpret this to mean I'm saying we MUST BLOW OUR WARCHEST GO OUT AND GET A SECOND STAR. Quite the opposite. There are a lot of approaches we can take to progressively improve the team. Two moves I've been beating the drum for have been to upgrade Collins to Jonas and Keldon to Aaron Nesmith. Neither of these moves should cost much, but would significantly improve the team, and there are plenty others like it we can imagine. While Barnes has been underperforming, he's exactly the kind of move that I think falls into this bucket. Even though of late he's not necessarily been playing like a $20MM/yr player - overall I think he's been a huge improvement for the team. He's certainly playing a lot more like a $20MM/yr player than Collins is, for example. We can, and should, improve the team around a Top-10 player - there is no reason not too. As LeBowen has accurately pointed out at times, there is simply no way to tank with a healthy Wemby on this team. There is also no tangible benefit to being an 11th seed in the West. Might as well improve the team and push for a playoff spot to get the benefit of that experience early in Wemby's (and Castle and Sochan) career.
im sorry your is so small that you have to keep posting for attention but isn’t your star player too fat to stay healthy?
Spurs are in a place equivalent to when curry was in his prime and severely underpaid because of his past injuries. There is absolutely no benefit to waiting. However, I don’t think there is any benefit to being conservative either.
Spurs’ front office focus needs to shift from what it had been in the Duncan era. This team does not need to build through the draft. Free agency and trading are how San Antonio maximizes wemby’s potential. Victor should not be playing with rookies and guys that are going to take years to develop.
Elon Musk mentioned Wemby!
With 359, Victor has now tied Blake Griffin & Jayson Tatum for total career blocks.
Get a load of this in' dork (relax, nerds, this is a joke... this is badass that our superstar is looking for chess matches while someone like Harden would be looking for the backdoor of Scores)
When Wemby did an interview before the season saying that he was shocked and disappointed by the antics and practice habits of some of the superstar players, I am sure Harden in on that list.
Can throw in Embid and Zion as well
It'd be amazing to see Wemby hanging out in Washington Square Park in a hoodie, playing chess.
Also, how does Elon Musk not understand how apostrophes work? Whoa.
Tonight Wemby became the first player in NBA history with 2,000 points, 1,000 rebounds, 200 blocks, and 200 3-pointers made within the first 100 games of his career. This was game #97 for Wemby.
Wemby knows half the bums on our current roster are gone in the next year or two. He's gonna have that Lebrun influence before long tbh.
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