It boils down to: PATFO whiffed on the 2020/2021/2022 drafts

[Slippy]

Vassel is having a shooting slump not seen before from him. I mean he missing wide open 3s consistently. Great looks that from privious seasons he would mostly connect. 9 time out of 10. His defense of late has been great & what i expect.

Not ready to give up on him. This shooting slump is hurting the team & his game especially the close loses.

[ambchang]

I don’t have issues with the drafting. When looking back, KJ, Vassell, sochan and now castle all starts off great in the first year. They showed promise, they had certain traits that make them look like good decent young players, then for some reason they started being asked/directed to do things way outside of their capabilities, and they, understandably, struggle. Keldon is pretty much gone at this point, Vassell isn’t trending well at all, and sochan just started to suck after a promising start to the year because for some strange reasons he’s not doing what he was successful at doing. I’m worried with this developmental staff/coaching staff/ front office, the same thing will happen to castle.

Bassey and Manu had nothing going after showing some good flashes, Wesley actually showed some nba qualities and was then stuck at neutral. Brahma got worse by the day. The only one with any tangible improvements was champaigne, and that’s because he was just asked to shoot and defend.

Keep the roles simple and develop the players for Pete’s sake. Don’t try to turn them all into a bunch of multi skilled superstar players when they just aren’t those. They end up with a rusted and broken Swiss army knife where they can’t do anything right.

Don’t even get me started on the rotations. It’s like the coaches are actively trying to lose games …..

[Obstructed_View]

I don't have an issue with the draft picks for the most part. The Spurs tried to get guys at positions of need. Nobody could have known we would end up with people completely incapable of learning to shoot a basketball.

But many of you should realize now how big a deal it was to reach for Josh ing Primo and what a massive up it was to trade away pick number 8. The latter is a huge problem because the FO should have known about the lack of progress by the current players before drafting three guys who can't shoot and passing on Dalton Knecht for a 2031 draft pick.

[MannyIsGod]

Is this not the norm though? I mean yeah, OKC has hit some great picks, but man no one ever brings up Poku do they? Are not the majority of lottery picks misfires? I do think the Spurs have probably done worse than usual post Dejounte but I don't think they're all that far below the median NBA franchise.

[exstatic]

Is this not the norm though? I mean yeah, OKC has hit some great picks, but man no one ever brings up Poku do they? Are not the majority of lottery picks misfires? I do think the Spurs have probably done worse than usual post Dejounte but I don't think they're all that far below the median NBA franchise.

Or Ouseman Dieng. Or Giddey.

People here idolize OKC, yet they want us to trade our picks. OKC rarely does,and when they did, they aggregated 3->1. They have draft hits because they USE nearly all of their picks.

[J_Paco]

Draft positioning also plays a part in the caliber of prospect the Spurs have drafted. They've only drafted in the top 10 three times (Sochan, Wembanyama & Castle).

Ending up 'wasting' picks on Primo (prototypical self-creator) and Wieskamp (motion shooter/3-point specialist) definitely hurt the team a ton, but hopefully they can acquire those archetypes with all their upcoming 1st round picks.

[scott]

Is this not the norm though? I mean yeah, OKC has hit some great picks, but man no one ever brings up Poku do they? Are not the majority of lottery picks misfires? I do think the Spurs have probably done worse than usual post Dejounte but I don't think they're all that far below the median NBA franchise.

This is a good point and I think it illustrates:

1) not all picks are going to be winners
2) but you've got to develop the ones you "get right" properly

I don't think the Spurs have drafted talent any worse than typical, but they sure as haven't developed them very well. You can afford to up the Poku's when you do the JWill's properly. It's a problem when you them all up.

[SpursBills]

I think the reason why OKC is perceived to draft well isn't necessarily because they hit on an unusually high percentage of their picks, but rather because they've hit home runs on the picks that they did hit on. Dub and Chet being potential all-star/all-NBA caliber talents obviously changes the entire fortune of their team. Additionally, they've had more chances to hit because of the draft capital they've ac ulated. So the degree of the "hit" matters from a perception standpoint as well. Otherwise if we were only counting the number of hits, Memphis would blow everyone away for hitting on so many of their second rounders and late first rounders that have turned into rotational or better players while really only missing on Ziaire Williams as a high profile draft pick.

Realistically, if a team hits a home run on 2 or more picks, the hard work is already done and it's not tough to build a contender for the next decade. Like imagine if the Spurs had the exact same drafting history and outcomes, except Devin Vassell happened to turn into Devin Booker, turning a single into a home run. All of a sudden, Wright would be a genius even if he busted his next 3 first rounders because the Spurs already have the bones of a decade-long contender.

[scott]

I think the reason why OKC is perceived to draft well isn't necessarily because they hit on an unusually high percentage of their picks, but rather because they've hit home runs on the picks that they did hit on. Dub and Chet being potential all-star/all-NBA caliber talents obviously changes the entire fortune of their team. Additionally, they've had more chances to hit because of the draft capital they've ac ulated. So the degree of the "hit" matters from a perception standpoint as well. Otherwise if we were only counting the number of hits, Memphis would blow everyone away for hitting on so many of their second rounders and late first rounders that have turned into rotational or better players while really only missing on Ziaire Williams as a high profile draft pick.

Realistically, if a team hits a home run on 2 or more picks, the hard work is already done and it's not tough to build a contender for the next decade. Like imagine if the Spurs had the exact same drafting history and outcomes, except Devin Vassell happened to turn into Devin Booker, turning a single into a home run. All of a sudden, Wright would be a genius even if he busted his next 3 first rounders because the Spurs already have the bones of a decade-long contender.

It's the same thing that got PATFO the reputation of being drafting geniuses to begin with: From 1998-2003, we traded away 4 of 5 of our FRPs, and only 1 SRP amounted to anything for us. It just so happens those two guys in that 5 year stretch were Tony and Manu.

If you make your hits count, no one cares about the misses.

[scott]

Saw a reminder of this the other day... this is what Whiffing in the draft looks like. I have plenty of criticism for the Spurs FO... but it's always good to remember it could be WAY worse



Notable guys they passed up over this stretch:

2018: Luka (3), JJJ (4), Trae Young (5), Shai (11)
2017: Fox (5), Lauri (7), Spida (13), Bam (14)
2016: Jamal Murra (7), Saboner (11) [TBH this draft kinda sucked. Jaylen Brown was taken right before their pick... hard to be too bent out of shape about 2016]
2015: CONGRATS YOU GOT IT RIGHT!
2014: Firm handshakes for this one, good job
2013: CJ McCollum (10), Steven Adams (12), Giannis (15) [Another ty draft that you really only aced if you had a crystal ball and took Giannis)
2012: Yet another ty draft from their pick down, Maurice Harkless and Evan Fournier the best players taken after their pick... wow. Draymond and Middleton in the Second Round tho.

Not in this graphic:

2019: Took Jarrett Culver at 6. Pretty much anyone else taken after would have been better, though not by much.
2020: Took Jalen Smith, immediate after Vassell and Haliburton were picked.

The Suns are that rare combination of bad drafting and bad trade acquisitions.

[exstatic]

Saw a reminder of this the other day... this is what Whiffing in the draft looks like. I have plenty of criticism for the Spurs FO... but it's always good to remember it could be WAY worse



Notable guys they passed up over this stretch:

2018: Luka (3), JJJ (4), Trae Young (5), Shai (11)
2017: Fox (5), Lauri (7), Spida (13), Bam (14)
2016: Jamal Murra (7), Saboner (11) [TBH this draft kinda sucked. Jaylen Brown was taken right before their pick... hard to be too bent out of shape about 2016]
2015: CONGRATS YOU GOT IT RIGHT!
2014: Firm handshakes for this one, good job
2013: CJ McCollum (10), Steven Adams (12), Giannis (15) [Another ty draft that you really only aced if you had a crystal ball and took Giannis)
2012: Yet another ty draft from their pick down, Maurice Harkless and Evan Fournier the best players taken after their pick... wow. Draymond and Middleton in the Second Round tho.

Not in this graphic:

2019: Took Jarrett Culver at 6. Pretty much anyone else taken after would have been better, though not by much.
2020: Took Jalen Smith, immediate after Vassell and Haliburton were picked.

The Suns are that rare combination of bad drafting and bad trade acquisitions.

So, they could flip Book for their picks back, monetize KD for a couple of FRPs and still probably lose?

[spurraider21]

ayton was such a cucked pick tbh ... playing it safe with an athletic center with moderate talent as opposed to going for a legit franchise player. even if ayton hit his projecting ceiling that was never going to be a team's best player

[BatManu20]

Taking Sochan over Jalen Willams is looking worse by the week. Guy just continues to ball out for OKC. Still only 23 years old. He's going to be their version of Jaylen Brown imo, a 2nd All-Star caliber wing player who can be their best player on any given night and their go-to guy if/when SGA isn't playing.

[BatManu20]

There's no guarantee that we get Wemby if we draft either one of these guys so you really can't about it, but imagine if had drafted Sengün and J-Will instead of Primo and Sochan. We'd be cookin right now tbh.

[spurraider21]

at some point you have to call statute of limitations on "picking player x over y was a mistake." yes with years of information and hindsight things will look different

i dont remember people on this board melting down saying i cant believe we took sochan with j-dub avaiable the way they did with primo/sengun

[baseline bum]

It's the same thing that got PATFO the reputation of being drafting geniuses to begin with: From 1998-2003, we traded away 4 of 5 of our FRPs, and only 1 SRP amounted to anything for us. It just so happens those two guys in that 5 year stretch were Tony and Manu.

If you make your hits count, no one cares about the misses.

Giricek and Scola were two more great picks they made in that period. Still salty about gift-wrapping Scola to the Rockets when he would have been amazing to throw on Gasol in the 08 WCF

[ambchang]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...inning-culture


Focus on growing what you have and not make flashy trades. So incompatible with what our spurs talk experts want.

That said, we have to develop our talent. I do not see a single player who is on a Dort type trajectory.

[rascal]

Saw a reminder of this the other day... this is what Whiffing in the draft looks like. I have plenty of criticism for the Spurs FO... but it's always good to remember it could be WAY worse



Notable guys they passed up over this stretch:

2018: Luka (3), JJJ (4), Trae Young (5), Shai (11)
2017: Fox (5), Lauri (7), Spida (13), Bam (14)
2016: Jamal Murra (7), Saboner (11) [TBH this draft kinda sucked. Jaylen Brown was taken right before their pick... hard to be too bent out of shape about 2016]
2015: CONGRATS YOU GOT IT RIGHT!
2014: Firm handshakes for this one, good job
2013: CJ McCollum (10), Steven Adams (12), Giannis (15) [Another ty draft that you really only aced if you had a crystal ball and took Giannis)
2012: Yet another ty draft from their pick down, Maurice Harkless and Evan Fournier the best players taken after their pick... wow. Draymond and Middleton in the Second Round tho.

Not in this graphic:

2019: Took Jarrett Culver at 6. Pretty much anyone else taken after would have been better, though not by much.
2020: Took Jalen Smith, immediate after Vassell and Haliburton were picked.

The Suns are that rare combination of bad drafting and bad trade acquisitions.

Suns got Mikael Bridges for Zhaire Smith and a first rounder. That was a steal

[Obstructed_View]

Taking Sochan over Jalen Willams is looking worse by the week. Guy just continues to ball out for OKC. Still only 23 years old. He's going to be their version of Jaylen Brown imo, a 2nd All-Star caliber wing player who can be their best player on any given night and their go-to guy if/when SGA isn't playing.

Again, at some point you have to see the pattern that OKC is developing players and the Spurs are bringing guys back year after year who look like they worked on nothing in the offseason.

[RC_Drunkford]

Taking Sochan over Jalen Willams is looking worse by the week. Guy just continues to ball out for OKC. Still only 23 years old. He's going to be their version of Jaylen Brown imo, a 2nd All-Star caliber wing player who can be their best player on any given night and their go-to guy if/when SGA isn't playing.

you know what's the crazy thing about that? For years, the Spurs had put a huge emphasis on combine play. Samanic, Primo, they were also drafted because of strong play in the combine (besides some other reasons). And Jalen Williams was killing it in the combine, but of course the Spurs didn't draft him.

Again, at some point you have to see the pattern that OKC is developing players and the Spurs are bringing guys back year after year who look like they worked on nothing in the offseason.

they got Chip

[dbestpro]

Spurs are going to have to trade their way not being a playoff team.

[BatManu20]

you know what's the crazy thing about that? For years, the Spurs had put a huge emphasis on combine play. Samanic, Primo, they were also drafted because of strong play in the combine (besides some other reasons). And Jalen Williams was killing it in the combine, but of course the Spurs didn't draft him.

Yea I remember him being the fastest high-riser at the combine. He was shooting up draft boards during the pre-draft process and there were rumors that he was going to potentially be a top-10 pick. I know the Spurs had him in for a workout so he was def on their radar. I'm genuinely curious as to what their draft board looked like that year. Was J-Will right after Sochan on their board? Or was he a handful of players down. We'll never know so I guess the point is moot, but he and Sochan are completely different players obv so I wonder what went into that thought process.

Sochan is still a useful player if he can continue to improve as a 3-point shooter, but he's still not a great fit beside Wemby so I can't help but think about what a better fit Sengün would be at the 4 if he were a Spur right now + J-Will at the 3 as the legit going scorer that we so desperately need. That'd be a nasty big man combo at the 4 & 5 with both of their passing & shooting ability. Had they already had Wemby to cover some of his defensive shortcomings, I think PATFO might've gone with Sengün instead of Sochan. But as spurraider21 said, hindsight is always 20/20. No point in harping on it for too long and there's no guarantee we get Wemby if we land either Senün or J-Will so I digress.

[LeBowen]

Yea I remember him being the fastest high-riser at the combine. He was shooting up draft boards during the pre-draft process and there were rumors that he was going to potentially be a top-10 pick. I know the Spurs had him in for a workout. He was def on their radar. I'm genuinely curious as to what their draft board looked like that year. Was J-Will right after Sochan on their board? Or was he a handful of players down. We'll never know so I guess the point is moot, but he and Sochan are completely different players obv so I wonder what went into that thought process.

Sochan is still a useful player if he can continue to improve as a 3-point shooter, but he's still not a great fit beside Wemby so I can't help but think about what a better fit Sengün would be if he were a Spur right now. That'd be a nasty big man combo at the 4 & 5 with both of their passing & shooting ability. Had they already had Wemby to cover some of his defensive shortcomings, I think PATFO might've gone with Sengün instead of Sochan. But as spurraider21 said, hindsight is always 20/20. No point in harping on it for too long and there's no guarantee we get Wemby if we land either Senün or J-Will so I digress.

I think it was down to the roster construction at the time.
They got Devin instead of Haliburton because they weren't planning to blow it up, had both Derrick and Dejounte on the roster.
Then they got Jeremy instead of Williams because he was projected to be a SG and we had Devin and Primo to develop in that role, with Keldon being the only young wing.

Should've went with BPA in both cases, but what can you do.
The only picks I resent are Samanic and Primo because both times they tried to outsmart everyone and drafted players that weren't high on anyone's board.

[quentin_compson]

I think it was down to the roster construction at the time.
They got Devin instead of Haliburton because they weren't planning to blow it up, had both Derrick and Dejounte on the roster.
Then they got Jeremy instead of Williams because he was projected to be a SG and we had Devin and Primo to develop in that role, with Keldon being the only young wing.

Should've went with BPA in both cases, but what can you do.
The only picks I resent are Samanic and Primo because both times they tried to outsmart everyone and drafted players that weren't high on anyone's board.

I really hope the bolded isn't true. As you said, they should have gone with BPA (and maybe they did, who knows), as teams almost always should when picking in the lottery. Pondering the roster fit for a team that is going nowhere anyway is not a particularly smart thing to do.

[Truckules]

The only picks I resent are Samanic and Primo because both times they tried to outsmart everyone and drafted players that weren't high on anyone's board.

I agree for the most part, but I'm not as upset about Samanic. Samanic was a bad pick but overall didn't hurt the team too much. They took a swing and missed big, but the players behind him in the draft ended up being bench level players or worse. It would've been nice to have them but wouldn't have changed the team's trajectory much. The Primo pick was awful though and hopefully Wright learned a lesson from it.