Reply With Quote
I don't understand how a moron who flicks off refs like Zollins is still on the ing team. Hope that answers your question.
And if there is: what is that case?
If there isn’t: Who would you trade for? Fox? Butler? Somebody else?
I don't understand how a moron who flicks off refs like Zollins is still on the ing team. Hope that answers your question.
Well we are a season and a half into seeing what we have, and what do we think this FO has learned? I think that, along with what they hope to accomplish this season, are the key variable to this question.
Scenarios:
1. The Spurs want to make a play-in/play-off push
a. The Spurs feel like their young players are progressing on schedule and they think more developmental time is the key to growth. If this is true, then you'd think at a minimum the team would want to upgrade the backup C position UNLESS they feel like Bassey is also progressing on schedule and they view him as the backup of the future (I love Bassey, but I don't think he's anything more than a 3rd C/situational backup).
b. The Spurs feel like an injection of more talent or veteran experience is needed. If this is true, you'd think the Spurs would be very active in the trade market, as we have several rotation pieces that are not cutting it.
2. The Spurs want another high draft pick
a. The Spurs feel like their young players are progressing on schedule and they think more developmental time is the key to growth. This is one case where I feel like maybe you could justify not making any moves. Perhaps they feel that CP3 and Barnes are important mentors to the youth, and that having them around is key to their development. On the other hand, they could just as easily feel like moving CP3 and/or Barnes opens up more playing time for young guys and also helps us get a higher pick. So here is one scenario where maybe you are against making a trade at the deadline.
b. The Spurs feel like an injection of more talent is needed. I think in this case you'd definitely want to try and move CP3 and Barnes for picks or young prospects.
3. The Spurs are completely indifferent as to their finishing position, perfectly content with the 12th pick if that's where things finish up. (As an aside... the would be a pathetic level of complacent apathy and a good reason to believe the entire FO needs an overhaul)
This kind of just follows scenario 2a and 2b above.So essentially, we should be against making a deadline move if 1) we don't have about the play-in and 2) we are happy with our young core and feel they just need more time and 3) we feel like CP3 and Barnes are instrumental to the young cores continued development.
It would be a pretty passive, rather chicken approach to long-term team building. Maybe the team would end up looking like geniuses if a core of Wemby/Vassell/Sochan/Castle became championship caliber... but I'll go ahead and say the odds are pretty heavily stacked against that.
Is there a possibility that the FO is just waiting until next year to make a move? I don't even know what targets / disgruntled stars would be available next year. But they have Collins, Barnes, Wesley, Cissoko, Branham expiring at the end of 2026 - that's 50 million in matching salary. Wemby still on a rookie contract at that time. Probably costs a lot fewer assets to trade expirings compared to 2 year contracts for neutral to negative players. Maybe a Fox-type guy requires 4 first rounders with 2 year contracts for salary match but only 2-3 lesser picks if you're giving expirings.
They might still take this year as a "development" year (stop if you've heard that before). Gives the FO as much time for growth and optimize their draft pick as possible while still taking advantage of Wemby's rookie contract.
Otherwise they're just incompetent which is also a distinct possibility.
We went over it many times, there are very few suitable candidates for the Spurs if we're talking positional fit, age, asking price and contract.
Markkanen was the best option last summer, Fox will probably be the best one this summer.
Them not making any smaller moves is just incompetence. It's not like we'd instantly become good with just one trade.
We need a few smaller moves to make the roster functional. A solid backup big, another 3-D rotation wing and a second option instead of Vassell would be a cherry on top.
This offseason is going to be pretty pivotal.
Right now, we have 5 excess FRPs (including the pseudo CHA pick). But at least 40%, and possibly 60% of them come due this summer (ATL25, CHA25, CHI25). After that, your massive war chest isn't looking all that massive any more.
If the Spurs end up having, and taking, picks 11, 12 and 16 in this draft, IMO it should be considered a MASSIVE failure by this FO. The team did an excellent job positioning itself to have excess draft capital in order to acquire a second star player. To come away instead with some like Asa Newell, Ben Saraf and Liam McNeeley would be a major let down. Those guys each may all turn out to be fine pros, but you're going to have to wait 3 more years for them to develop and deal with a developmental crunch. We couldn't even successfully develop 3 rookies when we were tanking and had no blockers in those guys way... how are they are going to get playing time while Wemby is trying to win?
The Spurs could reset the clock on those excess FRPs by doing another MIN20131 style trade, and while I didn't love the ROI for the #8 pick last year, I think a move like that would be far better than actually taking a handful of mid-round picks this year. Of course, this also just has the effect of pushing back the timeline and giving the FO more rope on their "patience" bull . It's quite the grift... preach patience and keep punting the future down the road, avoiding accountability forever. Not that they even need to do that, the head coach and President of Basketball Operations flat out said the goal was to win last season, and then went out and matched their previous 22-game win total anyway.
I think Lauri might be back on the table this year, and maybe even cheaper than the presumed asking price last summer. A lot of that might depend on where Utah ends up in the lottery.
I also think a key driver is going to be what kind of movement we see this trade deadline, how badly (or not) certain experiments end up, and if current momentum swings certain ways. For example:
- SAC is currently in the 9th seed, but surging and only 2 games back of the 6th seed. If they make the playoffs outright, that will greatly reduce the odds Fox is available. Likewise, if Fox makes All NBA, he definitely won't be available this summer (as he'll extend and at a minimum have the 6-month moratorium)
- PHX has seemingly straighten themselves out somewhat, but if all they can do is finish in the 10th seed at .500, do they try to send KD or Booker to HOU for their own picks back? That would certainly leave the other one as available, you'd think. Or does PHX find a way to somehow shed Beal and get Jimmy? So much uncertainty here.
- Do the Pacers try to make a consolidation move? Does that perhaps make some of their promising young guys available on the periphery for a 3rd team?
- Similar question of Orlando?
Frankly there just are not a lot of "second stars" out there that are available. The team is going to have to dig deeper and possibly overpay to pry a young guy with second-star potential away from a team that is still rebuilding. I've thrown Trey Murphy III out there before. He's a guy I wouldn't mind overpaying for. Great length, good enough of a defender, high level athleticism, on a bargain contract. He started the year off in a bit of a shooting slump, but his 3 ball is starting to come around. He's historically been a good shooter in his career. NOP doesn't want to trade him (rightfully so), but they might be in a position where they can't afford to pass up a great offer. We need to be thinking of other guys in this mold (or perhaps even sneakier), because there are not going to be a lot of teams eager to give up established stars. It might be in our interest to look at teams like OKC, BOS, CLE and see if there is some talent on those teams that is blocked by established players and just need an opportunity. Likewise, we need to be looking for the Derrick White's of the world: solid role players stuck in losing situations who need a change in scenery and usage (not to be confused with USG%) to unlock their full potential.
TL;DR: Spurs FO needs to do their ing jobs.
Fwiw, Fischer is saying Kings are leading the race for Cam Johnson.
As you said, if we can't get a second star we need to get like 4 elite role players which would transform the team.
Hope that Castle develops, surround him and Wemby with good 3-D players and a 6th man scorer.
The only argument for not making a trade is if Wembanyama doesn't want one for some reason. I'm really hoping the FO makes a positive move before Wembanyama requests one though. I prefer when stars aren't calling the shots, but in our case it may become necessary.
Probably our best chance is facilitating a trade as a 3rd party by supplying the picks that a contender may not have for a choice young player. Something like the Brooklyn/ indy deal we discussed or maybe Herb from nola if a contender tries to acquire Zion or Ingram... Something along those lines.
Murphy and Herb are unrealistic targets, NOLA has no reason to even consider trading them.
Btw, Herb injured his shoulder again.
They're actually in a very good position. They'll get a top5 pick and they have a solid core if they can stay healthy.
DJ/Hawkins/Murphy/Herb/Missi with $30M cap space if they cut Zion. $60M if they trade CJ's expiring.
Would be a perfect landing spot for Flagg, tbh.
Competent front offices know better than to willingly pay a Zach Collins $18 million next season. He has literal negative value in a trade.
Im not suggesting targeting anyone specifically. I'm saying that being opportunistic may be our best chance to grab a young player. For instance if Nola trades Zion somewhere and Herb is part of the deal to make salaries and player spots work, and the receiveing team doesn't have draft capital, then we might be able to steal something out of it by supplying picks. That said, don't focus on Herb, Murphy, or anybody in particular because we aren't 'targeting', we're looking for a scenario where we have leverage. It could be any larger deal out there.
Yeah, I hope they get Flagg, tbh, though it wouldn't be great for us in the Southwest Division. New Orleans is full of great people, they deserve better. I'm of the opinion they should get whatever they can for Zion and BI now, because they don't really need either of those guys to have an exciting core going forward. That core is significantly better than ours outside of Wemby.
Yep, we need to be looking for creative ways to make use of our excess draft capital. If we're still holding those picks on draft day, their value is going to be diminished and teams will dare us to simply take the picks if we don't accept their bargain offers. Getting left holding the bag on those picks will be malpractice.
I'd happily send Vassell, ATL25 and the worst of ATL/SA27 for Trey Murphy III. Is anyone against that? Does NOP accept that?
I get what you're saying, it's just that some users in here, mainly scott, suggested Murphy. I like him as a player, but he's not a realistic target.
My suggestions are NAW (FA), Naz Reid (FA), LaRavia (FA) and Aldama (RFA). I doubt Grizzlies will throw a bag at him and he'd be great for us. He's having a better season than Naz, tbh.
NOLA had their fair share of talent influx.
As I said before, I want Mormons lead by Danny Ainge to get the next great white hope just because of the outrage it would create among mainstream media and casual fans.
And if anyone deserves at #1 pick, it's Utah. The only franchise that never lost 60 games.
I actually think there's a decent chance that they would.
I like those targets that you list, but those are summer deals. I'm looking for something sooner knowing I'll probably be disappointed.I get what you're saying, it's just that some users in here, mainly scott, suggested Murphy. I like him as a player, but he's not a realistic target.
My suggestions are NAW (FA), Naz Reid (FA), LaRavia (FA) and Aldama (RFA). I doubt Grizzlies will throw a bag at him and he'd be great for us. He's having a better season than Naz, tbh.
NOLA had their fair share of talent influx.
As I said before, I want Mormons lead by Danny Ainge to get the next great white hope just because of the outrage it would create among mainstream media and casual fans.
And if anyone deserves at #1 pick, it's Utah. The only franchise that never lost 60 games.
Deadline trades come at a premium and are usually short-term patches. It's going to be hard enough to make more of the play-in as it is. Despite how much people are desperate for any trade to happen - as if trading was the point - I don't see much beyond a possible small move here or there. Not until draft and summer.
Yep, I might be the only one riding the Murphy train. I agree he's not a realistic target, at least not without paying a significant price. If people want to bargain shop, you aren't going to get guys like Murphy. 6 months before Dejounte was traded, everyone here said he was untouchable. My point is that everyone has their price. Murphy is attainable, but it's going to take an offer NOP can't refuse and you only make that kind of offer if you really believe in the player (I happen to be that high on Murphy, but I might be on an island amongst Spurs fans in that regard).
I like all of the guys on your list, but none of them have second star potential, which is more what I'm talking about at this point. There are always opportunities to pick up the supporting cast.
More than a 2nd star, I'd rather have a few rotation players so Wemby has a supporting cast. Then look for the 2nd star this summer
I don't think we'll have an opportunity to get a potential second star in free agency any time soon, I've given up on that idea.
Yeah, those streets are pretty rough. I'd be down for a build where we have multiple #3s instead of a true #2, but we don't even have one #3 right now unfortunately (and I don't see any of the guys you mentioned as being one of those either). Vassell is closest, but honestly I think he's more like a 4th option on a playoff team (and Naz, the best guy on your list, I'd say the same about). Castle has a chance to elevate to that level, and deserves a long leash.
Our FO needs to get creative and take swings with the kind of upside to at least be a solid #3 (I don't even love Cam Johnson that much, but he's one of those guys). Otherwise, I still don't particularly love where we are going.
Let's say we sign Naz and Aldama to be our starting front court next to Wemby. Let's say we also use the #11, #12 and #16 in the draft to take Saraf, Philon and McNeeley (I guess?) and somehow move Keldon for something tbd
2025-26 Spurs:
Castle/Philon/Jones
Vassell/Saraf
Aldama/Champ/McNeeley
Reid/Sochan/Barnes
Wembanyama/Bassey/Collins
That team has a lot fewer holes, but looks like it still caps out as the 6 seed unless Castle or one of those rookies really breaks through.
I actually like the idea of adding two of the 3 guys on your list (with Naz and Aldama as my favorites), but we still need something.
Kind of depressing, tbh
Most FO make drastic moves to buy time to convince their owner they are making progress. We have the opposite problem. Our FO can keep their jobs by doing nothing and preaching patience. Patience helped in the past with the Big 3, but we are in a much more dynamic situation. I'm taking the economic self preservation interpretation of our FO's approach and saying they will continue to do the minimum because they can.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
