Not sure what you are referring to, but would be happy to discuss if you clarify.
The next Spurs dynasty will also be built through the draft in that we drafted Wemby. He is the core, just like Giannis is the core in MIL, Joker is the core in DEN, etc. Wemby isn't just a star, he's a superstar. I would compare it to BOS. Tatum and Brown were drafted, but pretty much the rest of the their main rotation was acquired via trade (Derrick, Jrue, Kristaps). They have some other guys they drafted (Prichard) who they drafted, and the Spurs will still have picks to add more players.Most of the teams you named all were built through the draft and they made a key trade to help. Their core was the draft outside of The Knicks which supports what I said. The draft is more successful than a big trade in getting and keeping a compe ive team. That's not even an argument. It is what it is. Trades can absolutely help, the right one. Look at what the Timberwolves did this past year.
Of course its about the right price. I haven't seen anyone dispute that. And pretty much everyone in this thread has said no to Vassell + Castle. The only way I'd do that is if it includes no picks (but I'd rather keep Castle and send out some picks, personally). It's correct Fox is not a superstar. Neither are Mitc , Gobert, KAT, Bridges though. I'd put Fox in roughly the same category as those guys (Mitc and KAT mostly, I'd put him above Gobert and Bridges).I agreed with Fox being a good player that should be had for the right price. It's the overpay of picks that has been the only arguing point. He isn't a superstar. That's not who he is. He is drawing superstar fantasy drafts with 4 first rounders going out plus a vassel or cassel and more.
The last Superstar trade we saw was for a 34 year old KD on a team that was blowing it up. That cost PHX 5 FRPs plus Bridges and Cam Johnson. In the event a true Superstar comes available, are you ready to pay THAT kind of price? The Spurs don't even have a Bridges or a Cam Johnson to trade.
Who's making that argument? It seems like the only people making that argument are those out of touch with current NBA trade values and confusing a package of Vassell + 3 FRPs + SAC's swap (which is on the high end of what pretty much anyone has suggested in here) with a Superstar package. That is not a superstar package. There isn't a single superstar in this league you could acquire with that package (and when we say Superstar, we're talking about Shai, Jokic, Giannis, Luka, Curry, Lebron, KD, Wemby and maybe Tatum.)Fox is not that type of star. That's the argument.
The Spurs were a luxury tax team several times during the Duncan era. 2002, 2004, 2006, 2009, 2011. Their stars took pay cuts so the team could bring in more talent to compete. Kidd didn't not come here because of Tony, he didn't come here because his wife didn't want to move to San Antonio. The fact that aren't many teams who just bring in superstars outside of a handful of big markets is the point. San Antonio isn't one of those markets, so getting Top 25 talent isn't an avenue that is just always open to us.As far as the Duncan thing goes, spurs never had big money to begin with. Their stars are known for takingbig pay cuts. Kidd was arguably the best player in the NBA at a point and he wanted to come but didn't because of Tony. There aren't many teams who just bring in superstars outside of a handful of big markets. That's always been a media spin.
You must be confusing me with someone else, because I never made that argument, so I was confused that when it was in response to me. I'm actually not even sure what you're talking about at this point? I don't have a "Fox wants to leave story" - I was responding to when you said "Don't pay big for someone you're comfortable walking in a couple years."The argument was presented, 'If it doesn't work out, it won't be too bad." And I responded to that. I'm not sure where you're getting the Fox wants to leave story. But it would make sense and follow your story of people nor wanting to be in SA according to you.
If history has shown trading a superstar price... why did you just say that you want to wait to trade for a superstar? Your words: "If you're shooting for the stars, just pay big and go for an established superstar." You're posts are really contradictory, but what I gather is that you just don't want to overpay for Fox. That's fine, none of us do.Reiterate once more, Fox would be a welcome addition for a good price, not a superstar price. History has shown trading a superstar price doesn't usually work out. Most compe ive teams built through the draft before making a play in free agency. We have two top 5 picks. We are two years into a legit rebuild. Manu said it best, they're 2-3 years away from competing. Those draft picks matter while they're not competing. They're more valuable than a play in spot player.
no, because according to Kings fans he's been checked out and only turned it on in the 4th occassionally. That means there is a whole nother gear there. Besides that, they were mostly coached by Mike Brown who's an idiotic Pop protégé and Fox played in line ups with Sabonis and DeRozan who both can't defend nor shoot 3s. He's also the best player on that team, not the 2nd option and plays with an injured hand. You're probably seeing 70% of what he's capable off right now.
Spurs fan: "We'll never get anyone! Star players hate SA!"
Also Spurs fan: "This star player isn't good enough! Let's wait for another one!"
The worst part is people thinking there will be a worthwhile star that will become available via trade AND be drama-free
which is why you keep Castle, who will then enter his prime
you seem to forget that 2 if not 3 of our assets will be gone by the offseason and the only thing left is ATL 27 and MIN 2031 plus swaps
Picks tends to be worth more, when they are just picks.
"I love castle, but" camp, my question is do you have eyes
Honestly, there's no point in bothering with some of the takes in here.
I'd just like to hear the anti-trade crowd to name at least a few realistic all-star targets that would be a good basketball, age, contract and asking price fit.
Spoiler alert - there aren't any, we went over it in detail god knows how many times.
Odds of all-stars becoming available before ~27 are non-existant. You can forget about young all-stars being available.
You either draft them, get underappreciated reclamation projects or wait for the final year of rookie max extensions when players like Fox or Markkanen potentially become available.
(inb4 wElL yOu DoN't KnOw WhO's GoInG tO bE aVaIlaBle ThIs SuMmEr CrOwD.)
Yes, we do ing know because if you follow the league enough it's easy to predict.
Much like last year during Trae rumors I said Fox will be available soon because Kings aren't getting anywhere.
Right now, there are no other all-stars who could become available.
Edwards surely won't be available for a couple more years and it would take literally the entire franchise including the new practice facility to trade for him.
Luka will sign an extension this summer.
Markkanen might become available since he just keeps giving interviews about how he hates tanking.
That's it in the West. Or maybe people want Zion?
East? Herro and Maxey? Are those the big prizes someone wants?
As for the Booker talk, just forget about it.
Ishbia is obviously a degenerate and won't blow it up as long as Booker doesn't ask for a trade.
When he does, there's no way anyone beats the Rockets offer because they own Suns picks and got them from Brooklyn specifically because they want Booker.
Also, Booker over the past 2.5 seasons is at 35.3% from 3pt on 6.5 attempts.
Fox is at 34.5% on 6.4 attempts.
Less than 1% difference on identical volume.
Their stats across the board since Fox improved his 3pt shot are as close as it gets.
It's not even a contest who's a better fit because we're desperate for someone who can collapse defenses on consistent basis.
And yes, Fox is a way better defender. Playing defense with someone as awful as Sabonis behind you is an impossible task.
Another thing you have to ask is if Booker is even that good considering Suns fell off after supposedly washed CP3 left.
Anyhow, for us it's either Fox or development through draft.
With PATFO's record as of late, we'd just waste Wemby's entire rookie contract without getting anywhere.
We have a top5 player in the league and not being compe ive as soon as the next season would be a huge disservice to him.
Top7 best odds for this year's lottery are already known, no way Spurs get in there.
After that, it doesn't really matter, looks like another draft with no depth.
Kings can't play hardball if Fox confirms he wants to leave.
Spurs can't lowball too much because there will be other interested parties.
As the usual reasonable posters said, Castle should be off the table, anything else goes.
I'd try to trade Devin because it's obvious he's not the guy and Kings just might be dumb enough to value him.
Long-term he has to go even if we get Fox and keep him.
Kings are a badly ran franchise, their ownership cares about selling the tickets and making the playoffs. That's it.
A team with Sabonis and Demar has no use for Castle this or the next season.
They have a similar player in Devin Carter, making Castle and even worse fit.
As I said already, they could use those Hawks picks to get Hunter which would be a fair trade for everyone.
We can also send Tre to be Monk's backup.
If they want to dump Huerter, fine.
You gotta imagine Barnes and Fox are texting each other back and forth right now
It's not a matter of if we need to trade for Fox. It's a no brainer. It is a question of what would be a fair trade for the Spurs. The ideal trade would be giving up a couple of picks along with Keldon and Tre Jones. If the Kings insist on Castle, the Spurs should lessen the number of picks. If they ask for Vassell, the Spurs should get Huerter too perhaps.
I still feel this goes into the summer. It unlocks Houston for SAC as a potential trade partner, who probably would prefer a deal centered around a Jalen Green and young players/picks. Reading their boards it seems like picks alone won’t do it for SAC.
Fox buzz feels like it has legs but let's see. Yeah Fox legit makes me want to break the bank in a hefty offer, hoping we don't overpay out of eagerness lol. Fox is an absolutely tantalizing target for SA and really feels like the thing to come along that we've been waiting for. I'm not usually a big get type fan and typically resist the Trae, Zion, Lavine type proposals. But certain players like Markkanen and Fox it's like, you just get that hunch no question yes I'd do almost any deal to get that done.
Kinda weird how FRP quan y felt like a no-go for me this summer with Markk talks but now, for Fox, dude I'd dump a wheelbarrow full of FRPs like rain. Especially if it meant keeping Castle. Feels like this rollercoaster with ATL 25 plus the disappointment of Bran and Blake made me devalue picks a bit recently. They really are best as trade assets with distant random value. Once they zero in it's like a hole in the bottom of a boat. Besides, back then we always talked about bundling them into some established talent eventually- like we all said this was why we stockpiled them.
Kings ownership just wants to stay compe ive enough to sell the tickets and make the playoffs. They don't want to fully rebuild and go back to being the worst team in the league.
Imo, their plan is obvious.
Keep competing while Sabonis is in his prime, they can't really afford to get just Castle for Fox because they'll be way worse this and the next season.
Sabonis/Monk/Murray/Carter/Ellis looks to be their core, they'll need to extend Murray this summer.
They also can't really move Demar, they just got him and noone will take him.
That's a core with no great shooters. Castle makes absolutely no sense whatsoever unless they plan to blow it up and start over.
Jeremy doesn't make sense for the same reason.
With Monk/?/DDR/Murray/Sabonis starting lineup, they'd ideally want a Klay reincarnate, but odds of that happening are low.
Ellis has been very good while Fox was out, idk if they think he can be the long-term SG solution.
The question presents itself would they want Devin because a lot of people around the league still think he has 3-D upside or would they prefer a pick-heavy package so they can get their guy somewhere else.
As mentioned in here already, they could be interested in Champagnie, but idk what's his actual value in a trade. Noone is going to offer a FRP (or equivalent value) for Champ, at that point it's not worth it for the Spurs.
Another really interesting thing is that there's kind of a SAS/SAC/ATL triangle for FRPs.
We all know we have '25 and '27 ATL picks with unprotected '26 swap.
But what's more interesting is that ATL owns '25 SAC pick. It's top12 protected in '25 and top10 in '26.
And we obvioulsy have unprotected '31 SAC swap.
Hunter is someone who would perfectly fit Kings' needs and I'm sure Hawks really want those picks back now that Johnson looks like an all-star in the making and they just drafted Risacher.
I'm not going to go into detail because I've got no clue what's going to happen, but my take would be that ATL is going to be involved in Fox to Spurs trade as a third team.
^ Nice post.
Contract wise, Fox to Spurs, Keldon to Hawks, Tre Jones and Hunter to Kings work.
Kings aren’t looking to rebuild so they value picks less than other teams. Just need a third team that does value picks and has a player the Kings like. That should allow the Spurs to keep Castle. Everyone else but Castle & Wemby is tradeable.
I don't think they're dumb enough to accept Keldon.
Devin as the centerpiece seems like the only logical option.
'31 swap guaranteed to be extinguished.
I'm not sure if they'd also want Tre.
If it's Devin+Tre for Fox+Huerter, Spurs would need to add another $3M in salaries.
They'd obviously want Champ.
And I see Huerter as a negative contract.
I'd give them '31 swap back and two more FRPs if we're taking on Huerter and sending Champ out.
To the Spurs Front Office:
Please bring us Spurs fans to life, do it!
exciting stuff going on
Seriously. trading castle with his potential and him being a rookie would be a huge mistake. Again, we have enough assets to make this trade without him.
These rumors aren't real until I see a bunch of "news stories" about Fox's wife shopping for homes in the Dominion.
Fox and Castle are a really poor fit to be paired in a backcourt. Fox is a ball dominant player and Castle isn't at all an off ball player because he isn't a good shooter. In a team with Fox and Wembanayama, Castle will be forced to play a role where he will struggle. Lowering Fox touches to let Castle shine isn't a good option because Fox himself isn't a good shooter.
A proper setup for Castle to flourish would be to either be paired with a SG like last year Vassell or to paired with a low usage and good shooting PG.
To me, if Spurs get Fox, they can't really keep Castle.
fit, hoard talent as much as possible regardless. Fox is going to sit or get injured
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