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  1. #1351
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Kings Trade Options, Matchup With the 76ers - January 29: The Insiders + D-Lo & KC - YouTube


    It's a live broadcast right now but it was about 48 minutes in from the start of the stream.
    These guys want Vassell, Castle, Sochan and Champ and picks for Fox and Huerter

    No thanks fellas.

  2. #1352
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    3. We should just wait for [Insert Player Here], he's better!

    Some of these are not serious suggestions. Luka is also not going to be a Free Agent in the summer of 2026. He is not turning down a 5/35% supermax so that he can become a free agent and sign a 4/30% FA max. It's simply laughable to even believe this for a minute. Luka will sign a SuperMax this summer. He will be eligible to be traded 6 months after that. Could he demand a trade? Sure? Is there any reason to believe he will? Not serious ones. The same goes with Ant. You'll be waiting until 2029 to see if he demands a trade, because he won't do it before he secures a SuperMax. To my knowledge, Kawhi is the only player who has foregone a shoe-in SuperMax to force his way out.

    But if by some 0.0001% chance happened and Luka was available next season or became a Free Agent... I could just see the posts now... "IDK about Luka, I really like Vassell I'm not sure he's worth giving up... and did you know that Shai is a Free Agent in 2027?" It's a never ending cycle. PATFO's Patience Grift has created an army of cultists who are always waiting to gamble on the next improbable scenario
    Am onboard with with your #'s 1,2,4 completely, and even to an extent with the above (no-one with the possibility of a super-max is forcing their way anywhere prior to signing that), but there is always movement at the All-Star level each year. Movement via trade and movement no-one would realistically have expected 2 seasons prior (eg: 22/23 season was Sac's light the beam season where they won the division, finished 3rd in conference and Brown was unanimous coach of the year, anyone picking Fox to force his way out then would have been laughed at). Looking at All-Star roster movement is roughly about +10% for each year you go back. 3/26 from last years AS rosters are with different teams (PG, KAT, Randle), 5/26 from 23 AS's (prev 3 + Siakim and DeRozan), 8/26 from 22 AS's. The majority of these via trade (exception PG to 76ers) given how Free Agency now works. So there very likely will be 2-3 players from this years All Stars sitting on different teams this time next year, and while reading the tea leaves in reverse it'll make some sense, some will be largely out of the blue (e.g T-Wolves were #1 in the West this time last year yet KAT is now happily on the Knicks).

    I'm intrigued by Fox, and B Wright should be looking at extracting value here if possible, but my preference for a 2nd star would always be a wing over a point guard. I still think there is a +50% chance Markannen is back on the market in the off season and, if we're paying over the top for someone, would much prefer him over Fox.

    Will be a fun week.

  3. #1353
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Classic DPG. Dancing with the one he came with while sneaking over to the other side of the room and grabbing some girl's ass.

    Feels like the old days.

  4. #1354
    Believe. Blizzardwizard's Avatar
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    These guys want Vassell, Castle, Sochan and Champ and picks for Fox and Huerter

    No thanks fellas.

    Yeah I cringed hearing that. How much leverage do they think SAC have?


    They're either coping or genuinely don't realize Fox is gonna be on an expiring this summer and doesn't have 3+ years left on his current deal.

  5. #1355
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    These guys want Vassell, Castle, Sochan and Champ and picks for Fox and Huerter

    No thanks fellas.
    They are in for a rude awakening and if SAC does that and holds that ridiculous line and tries to tell Fox “sorry, we tried” he will absolutely walk on them in FA IMO

  6. #1356
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    I'm okay waiting a bit to sign him and the Kings get nothing.

  7. #1357
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    Am onboard with with your #'s 1,2,4 completely, and even to an extent with the above (no-one with the possibility of a super-max is forcing their way anywhere prior to signing that), but there is always movement at the All-Star level each year. Movement via trade and movement no-one would realistically have expected 2 seasons prior (eg: 22/23 season was Sac's light the beam season where they won the division, finished 3rd in conference and Brown was unanimous coach of the year, anyone picking Fox to force his way out then would have been laughed at). Looking at All-Star roster movement is roughly about +10% for each year you go back. 3/26 from last years AS rosters are with different teams (PG, KAT, Randle), 5/26 from 23 AS's (prev 3 + Siakim and DeRozan), 8/26 from 22 AS's. The majority of these via trade (exception PG to 76ers) given how Free Agency now works. So there very likely will be 2-3 players from this years All Stars sitting on different teams this time next year, and while reading the tea leaves in reverse it'll make some sense, some will be largely out of the blue (e.g T-Wolves were #1 in the West this time last year yet KAT is now happily on the Knicks).

    I'm intrigued by Fox, and B Wright should be looking at extracting value here if possible, but my preference for a 2nd star would always be a wing over a point guard. I still think there is a +50% chance Markannen is back on the market in the off season and, if we're paying over the top for someone, would much prefer him over Fox.

    Will be a fun week.
    I would also probably prioritize Mark over Fox, and I do think there is a good chance Mark could be available this summer... but I also think you can get Fox now and still get Mark this summer if you wanted. So if you want Lauri, that in and of itself is not an impeded by getting Fox. Now, whether the Spurs want to be a team that operates just below the tax line, is another question.

  8. #1358
    Forum Official Personal Life Coach BacktoBasics's Avatar
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    These guys want Vassell, Castle, Sochan and Champ and picks for Fox and Huerter

    No thanks fellas.
    This is expected and Fox saying we’re a preferred destination did nothing to help the situation. I already didn’t like the likely asking price of two rotation players and 3 picks.

    I’m not even sold on moving the ATL pick with JJ now out. A player and a 1st with an additionally protected 1st is fine. I wouldn’t be interested in unloading a bag for him.

  9. #1359
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    This is a strawman. Nothing about not trading for Fox means Im arguing sa hold all their picks and make no other moves for 5 years. Thats redacted and before Fox became available this was never the argument lol
    if you say keep the picks and draft your second star that‘s exactly how long it would take to turn this roster into a contender. Just out of curiosity, when exactly would you plan on contending for a le? When are you drafting a star and when is Doncic (or all your other possible options) available, so you can trade for him? Just curious on what your gameplan and timeline would be.

  10. #1360
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Here are some scenarios that Vecenie threw out in the Athletic today:

    Scenario 1.

    Spurs Get: Fox, Simone Fontecchio
    Spurs Send: Tre, Blake, Mamu, Barnes, Bran, SA25, ATL25, CHI25, ATL27, SA25 SRP

    Kings Get: Tre, Blake, Mamu, SA25, ATL25, CHI25, ATL27
    Kings Send: Fox

    Pistons Get: Barnes, Bran, SA25 SRP
    Pistons Send: Simone Fontecchio

    Scenario 2

    Spurs get: Fox, Davion Mitc
    Spurs sends: Barnes, Branham, Tre, Blake, CHI25, AT25, SA25, SAC31 Swap, MIN28 SPR, NOP28 SRP

    MIA gets: Bruce Brown, Demar, CHI25
    MIA sends: Jimmy Butler

    TOR gets: Barnes, Bran, MIN28 SRP, NOP28 SRP
    TOR sends: Bruce Brown, Davion Mitc

    SAC gets: Jimmy, Tre, Blake, ATL25, SAS25, SAC31 swap torn up
    SAC sends: Fox

    Love Sam but I hate both of these. If this is the cost, I'm saying no and telling SAC to call us back when they're ready to get serious.

  11. #1361
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Here is Sam's mini-scouting report on Fox, though, for those who aren't super familiar with Swipa

    Fox is averaging 25.2 points, five rebounds and 6.2 assists per game, and he remains utterly dynamic with the ball in his hands as one of the fastest guards in the league. However, over the last three years, he’s taken an arguably bigger leap by showcasing the ability to slow down and play at pace.
    He’s more efficient and economical with his decision-making. He continues to get to the free-throw line at a high level and makes his shots on the interior with a great floater game as well as the ability to turn the corner on rim protectors. He’s one of those players who doesn’t need a ball screen to get paint touches but is also elite with a ball screen because he possesses a three-level scoring arsenal. His 3-point shot comes and goes, and it’s what teams feel comfortable giving up when he’s on the attack. However, he has hit 35.4 percent of his seven 3-point attempts per game over the last year and a half.
    Fox remains a borderline All-Star even in a loaded Western Conference. He’s a top-30 player in the league, and teams would love to acquire him. The Kings also would love to keep him. Will they be willing to trade him before the deadline and upend what has quickly been a turnaround season since they fired Mike Brown as coach and inserted Doug Christie into the role?
    Sacramento is 24-22, firmly in the Play-In Tournament picture and just two games out of the No. 6 seed in the West. However, the Kings have a tough schedule the rest of the way. Their opponents’ winning percentage the rest of the year is 50.9 percent, which is eighth-highest in the league. Also, 20 of their remaining 36 games are on the road.
    The Kings need to balance how much they’re winning, how much more positive things look under Christie and what they think their ceiling is this year with their future contract situation, Fox’s value in a trade, the fact that Fox’s trade value drops in the offseason (teams acquiring him now would get two postseason runs with Fox, not just one) and how much harder their schedule gets.
    Who will offer a massive package of assets for Fox if he’s already indicating where he wants to end up long term, as has been noted throughout all of the reporting? The San Antonio Spurs have long been seen league-wide as the most likely destination, but what other teams could get involved?
    If Fox gets dealt before the deadline, the Spurs seem like the most likely team, but if this gets to the offseason, you never know what could happen. With the help of Spotrac’s trade machine, I’ve dug into a few potential trade-deadline deals on Fox.

  12. #1362
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    This is one of the rare instances that gives both teams the opportunity to act within reason and not resort to extremes to get this deal done. But hey, we are talking about the NBA and executives. There's about a 90% chance someone over plays their hand.

  13. #1363
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    Gonna post a few more tidbits from Sam's article (I know we aren't supposed to post the whole thing). This goes to the idea of Castle as a PG of the future:

    For months, the Spurs have been connected with Fox in league circles as a potential destination to pair him with Victor Wembanyama. The fit is obvious. The Spurs have been looking for a long-term answer at the point guard position since moving Dejounte Murray in the summer of 2022. Chris Paul has done a great job of organizing the team this season, but he’s limited as a scorer and turns 40 in May. Tre Jones looks like a good backup point guard, but he’s probably just that.
    The Spurs drafted Stephon Castle this past year with designs on him potentially filling the point guard role down the road, but he’s been much better this season when he has played next to Paul in the starting lineup as opposed to when he is asked to create as more of a primary option.
    With Paul and Castle together on the court, the Spurs have won their 550 minutes by 1.3 points per 100 possessions. With Castle on the court without Paul, they’ve lost those 514 minutes by 3.2 points per 100, and the offense has been the significant issue. With Paul and Castle on the court, the Spurs average 119.2 points per 100 possessions. With Castle on the court without Paul, they average 106.7. And if Castle is on the court without either Jones or Paul, the Spurs have lost those minutes by 12.7 points per 100 possessions with an offensive rating of 102.4.
    I love Castle as a player, but I’ve never seen him as a primary lead guard. He’s always been better to me as a terrific connective player on the wing who passes well, defends well and makes a ton of terrific decisions on the court while acting as a secondary ballhandler.
    That’s a perfect role to play next to Fox, whose quickness would give the Spurs the kind of significant athletic boost that they’ve lacked at times in the past two years with Wembanyama. Think about how synergistic this pairing could be: Fox speeding down the court in transition, collapsing the defense and forcing it into the paint in help before Wembanyama trails the play from behind and gets a wide-open catch-and-shoot 3. Or, in ball-screen actions, Fox’s ability to consistently get paint touches would make Wembanyama’s pick-and-pop game that much harder to deal with. The way teams tend to guard the Spurs now is simply by switching a lot of those actions. But with Fox, it’s much harder to switch and put a big on him because of his blow-by speed mixed with his ability to decelerate into a floater.
    The Spurs are currently 25th in the league in drives, 22nd in the league in field goal percentage on drives and 27th in points per game off drives. This is even though they have arguably the league’s best weapon ever at spacing the floor from the center position in Wembanyama. No 6-foot-11 or taller center has ever taken more than 7.1 3s per game over a full season. Wembanyama is taking over nine 3s per game and making them at a 35 percent clip. He gets guarded when he’s away from the rim already at just 21 years old. The synergy between Fox and longtime Kings center Domantas Sabonis has been great, but with Wembanyama, it has a chance to be even better if the Spurs build this roster correctly around this duo because Fox will have genuine space in the lane.

  14. #1364
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    Here are some scenarios that Vecenie threw out in the Athletic today:

    Scenario 1.

    Spurs Get: Fox, Simone Fontecchio
    Spurs Send: Tre, Blake, Mamu, Barnes, Bran, SA25, ATL25, CHI25, ATL27, SA25 SRP

    Kings Get: Tre, Blake, Mamu, SA25, ATL25, CHI25, ATL27
    Kings Send: Fox

    Pistons Get: Barnes, Bran, SA25 SRP
    Pistons Send: Simone Fontecchio

    Scenario 2

    Spurs get: Fox, Davion Mitc
    Spurs sends: Barnes, Branham, Tre, Blake, CHI25, AT25, SA25, SAC31 Swap, MIN28 SPR, NOP28 SRP

    MIA gets: Bruce Brown, Demar, CHI25
    MIA sends: Jimmy Butler

    TOR gets: Barnes, Bran, MIN28 SRP, NOP28 SRP
    TOR sends: Bruce Brown, Davion Mitc

    SAC gets: Jimmy, Tre, Blake, ATL25, SAS25, SAC31 swap torn up
    SAC sends: Fox

    Love Sam but I hate both of these. If this is the cost, I'm saying no and telling SAC to call us back when they're ready to get serious.
    Really? I actually like both. You keep Castle + DV24 (who you can, and should, ship out separately), keep some near term draft capital (ATL26 Swap), keep your long term draft capital (20131) and are getting a serviceable player in addition to Fox. I think Fontecchio would go some ways towards addressing our shooting problems if I'm remembering him right

  15. #1365
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    Gonna post a few more tidbits from Sam's article (I know we aren't supposed to post the whole thing). This goes to the idea of Castle as a PG of the future:
    I'm trying so ing hard not to get over-excited and keep it cool....

    But MAN, am I dying to see this combination.

    Fox with Wemby would be a sight to behold. And there's a notorious amount of smoke around....

  16. #1366
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    One thing is for certain...we are all going to spend an inordinate amount of time here constantly refreshing this thread for the next week

  17. #1367
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Here are some scenarios that Vecenie threw out in the Athletic today:

    Scenario 1.

    Spurs Get: Fox, Simone Fontecchio
    Spurs Send: Tre, Blake, Mamu, Barnes, Bran, SA25, ATL25, CHI25, ATL27, SA25 SRP

    Kings Get: Tre, Blake, Mamu, SA25, ATL25, CHI25, ATL27
    Kings Send: Fox

    Pistons Get: Barnes, Bran, SA25 SRP
    Pistons Send: Simone Fontecchio

    Scenario 2

    Spurs get: Fox, Davion Mitc
    Spurs sends: Barnes, Branham, Tre, Blake, CHI25, AT25, SA25, SAC31 Swap, MIN28 SPR, NOP28 SRP

    MIA gets: Bruce Brown, Demar, CHI25
    MIA sends: Jimmy Butler

    TOR gets: Barnes, Bran, MIN28 SRP, NOP28 SRP
    TOR sends: Bruce Brown, Davion Mitc

    SAC gets: Jimmy, Tre, Blake, ATL25, SAS25, SAC31 swap torn up
    SAC sends: Fox

    Love Sam but I hate both of these. If this is the cost, I'm saying no and telling SAC to call us back when they're ready to get serious.
    I hate these deals lol

  18. #1368
    Mostly good takes Dverde's Avatar
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    Here is Sam's mini-scouting report on Fox, though, for those who aren't super familiar with Swipa
    How big is his forehead? I also need his growth plates measurements.

  19. #1369
    Make a trade steal
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    Yeah I cringed hearing that. How much leverage do they think SAC have?


    They're either coping or genuinely don't realize Fox is gonna be on an expiring this summer and doesn't have 3+ years left on his current deal.
    They still don't need to gift him to the Spurs.

  20. #1370
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Really? I actually like both. You keep Castle + DV24 (who you can, and should, ship out separately), keep some near term draft capital (ATL26 Swap), keep your long term draft capital (20131) and are getting a serviceable player in addition to Fox. I think Fontecchio would go some ways towards addressing our shooting problems if I'm remembering him right
    If we could ship out Devin after the first one, it's not too bad I guess. (Sam later says in the article that the second idea with Jimmy was his "its time to go to bed" proposal). I hate losing Barnes, but it's not like he's a rare gem. I like Simone coming into this season, but he's not been good this year. Seems like a scrappy, Spurs kind of player though and he can get his shot right he's kind of what we need.

    I don't know how we even field a compe ive team this season until we move Devin for some other pieces though. Barnes is just a solid role player, but he kind of holds everything together for us in some ways. Maybe you also look to flip CP3? I'm not sure he's keen to be a backup, and if Devin is staying on the team does he start?

    Fox/CP3
    Devin/Castle
    Champ/Keldon
    Sochan/Fontecchio
    Wemby/Bassey

    Can you somehow put together some deals using Devin, Keldon, Collins? You've already burned all of your excess draft capital, so hopefully you can recoup some with Devin?

    Idk... seems a little too "all-in" for me at this stage. I'd like to have at least one shot at the 25 draft.

  21. #1371
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    One thing is for certain...we are all going to spend an inordinate amount of time here constantly refreshing this thread for the next week
    It's the excitement of the Lauri thread all over again. I'm here for it.

  22. #1372
    Believe. LeBowen's Avatar
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    Forget about Kings' fans wishes, I think we're overestimating their awful front office.
    I'm sure that a competent GM would fleece them in this deal, but I'm not sure if Bryan can pull it off.

    We're talking about a team that traded away an unprotected swap in a year when their franchise player will be 35 years old and their only reliable wing shooter for 35 year old Demar and then they gave him a 3 year deal.
    Imagine being in charge of an NBA franchise and thinking that a team led by non-shooter Sabonis and subpar shooter Fox should trade away their most reliable wing shooter for Demar.
    How do these people scam their way into NBA front offices?

    Considering how mediocre this draft looks outside top5, I'd rather trade '25 FRPs than those 20131 picks other than SAC swap which obviously has to go.

  23. #1373
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    It's the excitement of the Lauri thread all over again. I'm here for it.
    Except this has a way better chance of actually happening

  24. #1374
    Veteran mo7888's Avatar
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    Here are some scenarios that Vecenie threw out in the Athletic today:

    Scenario 1.

    Spurs Get: Fox, Simone Fontecchio
    Spurs Send: Tre, Blake, Mamu, Barnes, Bran, SA25, ATL25, CHI25, ATL27, SA25 SRP

    Kings Get: Tre, Blake, Mamu, SA25, ATL25, CHI25, ATL27
    Kings Send: Fox

    Pistons Get: Barnes, Bran, SA25 SRP
    Pistons Send: Simone Fontecchio

    Scenario 2

    Spurs get: Fox, Davion Mitc
    Spurs sends: Barnes, Branham, Tre, Blake, CHI25, AT25, SA25, SAC31 Swap, MIN28 SPR, NOP28 SRP

    MIA gets: Bruce Brown, Demar, CHI25
    MIA sends: Jimmy Butler

    TOR gets: Barnes, Bran, MIN28 SRP, NOP28 SRP
    TOR sends: Bruce Brown, Davion Mitc

    SAC gets: Jimmy, Tre, Blake, ATL25, SAS25, SAC31 swap torn up
    SAC sends: Fox

    Love Sam but I hate both of these. If this is the cost, I'm saying no and telling SAC to call us back when they're ready to get serious.
    Yea... I want Fox, but I wouldn't pay that...

  25. #1375
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Here's the Vecenie article for those who want to read it. You can do the quick copy+paste method to beat the paywall

    https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/609...rockets-magic/

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