De'Aaron Fox Rumors Suggest a Possible Trade to The Spurs

[CGD]

every time i see vivek's face i think of this old bit



based on a true story

Lol! In fairness, go back an look at that draft. That has to be an all time terrible draft once you removed Embiid.

[The Truth #6]

We need to keep Vassell if we get Fox.

I know he sucks rn, but he's such a talented shooter, he just needs more spacing and Fox will provide that with his penetrations.

(He also needs to accept his ceiling is elite role player, not "Kobe light" tbh, but just with Fox's arrival, that's the role he'll get by default)

Sochan Keldon Tre Collins Brahman to choose

It's a fair point. Lack of shooting with Castle and Sochan is not compatible with winning most nights. Fox as #2 would rearrange the alpha hierarchy.

[scott]

Yup. This will drag out until maybe a day or two of deadline Im guessing.

Yeah, and at that point the Spurs may be as much as 8 games under .500 and that could certainly impact how they are feeling about doing anything. Lots of moving parts.

[LeBowen]

i'm simply pointing out the obvious.

The obvious is that Devin isn't providing anything to winning. He just has flashes that keep giving people false hope that he finally put it together.
It's his 5th year and he's still the same player in that regard.
Net rating for everyone averaging more than 10 mpg.




I honestly have no idea how to approach this if I'm to make an argument for Devin.
Yes, his rating is a bit lower due to playing more minutes with the bench unit, but that was supposed to be his role.
Remember last summer when we talked about how the likes of Middleton and KD led the bench units since those teams also don't have a real 6th man?
Devin's net rating is passable only when he's playing with our best possible lineup, but it's higher when Champagnie is playing in his place.
They have about the same impact on winning. And Devin is making 10x more money.

it doesn't matter how many times he's scored more than 30 in his career in regards to this point

It actually does because most of our wins are carry jobs by Wemby. We can't expect him to score 25+ every single game while being the best defender in the league.
Devin never rises to occasion when needed.
Last night he was 1-7 from 3PT while the game was close. Had a nice run when we fell behind, but those are empty stats.

He's just a better version of Lonnie with less athleticism.
An aesthetically pleasing scorer who looks good when he has it going, but he doesn't have it going on most nights.

the spurs will need to come up with another body who could become that second level scorer

Most definitely. But Devin isn't that player.

it's not julian

Obviously not. Julian is a very limited player with a very specific skillset which needs to be put to use.
He should be banned from taking any dribbles unless it's a pump fake into open lane drive and he needs to have some more plays called for him.
Even a subpar 3-D guy like Champ is great value for the team in modern NBA.

[LeBowen]

Also forgot to add that it's just sad how Spurs fanbase in general (this forum is the best in that regard) is becoming full of hopeless homers, what happened to us?
For decades we used to laugh at teams desperately trying to win the lottery while PATFO pulled good players out of their ass with late picks.
Now we have people who don't want to trade 6% golden tickets for proven all-stars.
For decades we laughed at empty stats players and fanbases that couldn't look past ppg and counting stats.
Now we're hoping charity cases like Devin will develop into legit players.

This franchise used to be about playing basketball the right way, now it's full of negative IQ charity cases that we used to laugh at.
Second longest playoff drought in the league, ffs.

[spurraider21]

for those who missed it in the long video earlier

[rjv]

The obvious is that Devin isn't providing anything to winning. He just has flashes that keep giving people false hope that he finally put it together.
It's his 5th year and he's still the same player in that regard.
Net rating for everyone averaging more than 10 mpg.




I honestly have no idea how to approach this if I'm to make an argument for Devin.
Yes, his rating is a bit lower due to playing more minutes with the bench unit, but that was supposed to be his role.
Remember last summer when we talked about how the likes of Middleton and KD led the bench units since those teams also don't have a real 6th man?
Devin's net rating is passable only when he's playing with our best possible lineup, but it's higher when Champagnie is playing in his place.
They have about the same impact on winning. And Devin is making 10x more money.



It actually does because most of our wins are carry jobs by Wemby. We can't expect him to score 25+ every single game while being the best defender in the league.
Devin never rises to occasion when needed.
Last night he was 1-7 from 3PT while the game was close. Had a nice run when we fell behind, but those are empty stats.

He's just a better version of Lonnie with less athleticism.
An aesthetically pleasing scorer who looks good when he has it going, but he doesn't have it going on most nights.



Most definitely. But Devin isn't that player.



Obviously not. Julian is a very limited player with a very specific skillset which needs to be put to use.
He should be banned from taking any dribbles unless it's a pump fake into open lane drive and he needs to have some more plays called for him.
Even a subpar 3-D guy like Champ is great value for the team in modern NBA.

but he is that player. he may not be very good at it (and thus there is no argument in trying to trade him away) but he still, presently, fills that role. he's actually our second option when he should be our fourth. fox would obviously be a solid second (and sometimes first) option but the absence of vassell would mean that we would be in need of another player to fill his role. that is all i am saying. there's no need for a dissertation as a response, or an emotionally fueled generalization about the state of the Spurs fan base.

[LeBowen]

but he is that player. he may not be very good at it (and thus there is no argument in trying to trade him away) but he still, presently, fills that role.

Then this is just a big misunderstading.
When I say he isn't that player it means I don't think he's good enough to be that player for not just us, but any playoff team.
Zach Collins is our backup big, that doesn't mean he's good enough.

he's actually our second option when he should be our fourth

Fourth options are either reliable contributors who aren't awful defensively like Barnes or microwave scorers who either go off or get benched.
Offensive output is the only reason for putting up with someone's bad defense.
Devin wouldn't average more than 15ppg as a fourth option and at that point he's not even worth it when Champagnie averaged 13ppg in that role while he was starting.
We're in serious danger of Devin's contract becoming a negative asset and having to use a FRP to get rid of it.
Odds of that are higher than Devin suddenly becoming a positive contributor in his 6th or whatever year.

fox would obviously be a solid second (and sometimes first) option but the absence of vassell would mean that we would be in need of another player to fill his role.

We were fine without Devin while he was injured and Fox would be a huge firepower improvement.
But as it's been said many times, ideally we get a 6th man to form a three guard rotation with Fox and Castle with all of them being interchangeable.
Someone similar to Monk, Sexton, Coby White, you get the point.

there's no need for a dissertation as a response

Alright, let's not use arguments, but stick to whataboutisms.
Taking a look at everyone's net rating is more than enough.
Scott posted many advanced metrics and graphs, each one shows Vassell is horrible, but you don't provide a single argument against it.

or an emotionally fueled generalization about the state of the Spurs fan base

Are you telling me that's not the state of Spurs fanbase.
I just opened Spurs subreddit and the first post is a tankathon screenshot, some homer hoping we get lucky again.

[scott]

for those who missed it in the long video earlier

But how will we replace Devin dribbling the air out of the ball and settling for a contested 18 foot jumper?

[Pauleta14]

Wemby is exhausted by having to do so much and we're below 50%, if Fox doesn't come NOW, the rest of the season can become a massacre if he doesn't get any help.

Either Fox comes before 6/2 or we're tanking hard and Wemby can forget about his DPOY and NBA Team selection (with the consequences it could have on his relationship with PATFO)

That's why I'd be surprised if Fox doesn't come, or at least a Big bc Vic made it clear he wants to experience the POs this season.

[scott]

LeBowen used a lot of words, but this image below is really all that needs to be said. I won't even add any commentary, it speaks for itself.

[TD 21]

As I expected, from everything I've heard, it sounds like Castle is off limits.

He's not providing , tbh.
8-7 without Vassell.
5-6 when he comes off the bench.
7-10 when he starts.

We're talking about a player who's missed 25% games in his career, never had a single double double, is obviously a negative on defense. Fine, he's a scorer?
Well, he's got 6 games with 30+ points in 268 career games.

Him and Keldon provide absolutely nothing to this team except for empty stats here and there.



As I already wrote, 3pt shooting isn't actually that bad. 6th in attempts and 13th in makes. Could be better, but is fine.
On the other hand, the offense grinds to a halt whenever the set gets broken down and we take bad shots.
It's either Castle or Keldon with low-percentage drives (others can't even get to the rim), Wemby's awnkward isos that usually end in turnovers or everyone chucking contested 3pts because we can't get a better shot.

We need a reliable paint penetrator who can collapse the defense. Fox is one of the best in the league at it and would solve a lot of our issues on offense.
He's not an amazing defender, but definitely better than Devin and they're almost identical in size, despite what official measurements say.

If Devin continues underperforming like this, we'll have to get rid of him pretty soon, he'll be a negative asset.
Our starting lineup with Champagnie was doing just fine.

It is not fine. They're 21st in 3pt%, lack a single great shooter and 5 of their top 10 are virtual or non ones.

If Fox thought Sabonis and DeRozan provided spacing issues (no surprise his career season came two seasons ago, with Barnes and pre collapse Huerter alongside), wait until he gets a load of Castle and Sochan.

[scott]

but he is that player. he may not be very good at it (and thus there is no argument in trying to trade him away) but he still, presently, fills that role. he's actually our second option when he should be our fourth. fox would obviously be a solid second (and sometimes first) option but the absence of vassell would mean that we would be in need of another player to fill his role. that is all i am saying. there's no need for a dissertation as a response, or an emotionally fueled generalization about the state of the Spurs fan base.

I agree with you. Devin sucks, but he is still filling a role. Like you said, he may not be good at that role, but we still need to fill it with him or someone else.

Part of the reason I want to trade Devin away is to remove the temptation to even try to shoehorn Devin into that 4th option role. He's a losing basketball player, and we aren't going to be good enough anytime soon to mask his deficiencies. He might do well as the 4th or 5th option on a great team, because they can cover up his deficiencies... but we aren't even close to there yet. And let's be honest... if Devin was traded to OKC, CLE, BOS, HOU, MEM, NYK tomorrow... I don't think he even sniffs 15 minutes of playing time.

[scott]

I just opened Spurs subreddit and the first post is a tankathon screenshot, some homer hoping we get lucky again.

Haha, yeah I saw that one and a comment of "this is why you don't trade picks for Fox"

I responded: that's like saying buying MegaMillions tickets is why you don't spend money feeding your children

[scott]

rjv and LeBowen, if I could step in (I apologize for butting in) but I don't think you two are disagreeing much here at all. rjv isn't even defending Devin, he's just saying that by trading away Devin we will need to replace that role. I don't even think that is debatable but I'd say forcing us to fill that role with someone who is not Devin Vassell is a good thing!

[scott]

This is Brian Wright's moment to tell Pop/Mitch they can't start Pena anymore

[scott]

As I expected, from everything I've heard, it sounds like Castle is off limits.



It is not fine. They're 21st in 3pt%, lack a single great shooter and 5 of their top 10 are virtual or non ones.

If Fox thought Sabonis and DeRozan provided spacing issues (no surprise his career season came two seasons ago, with Barnes and pre collapse Huerter alongside), wait until he gets a load of Castle and Sochan.

TD, my friend... I think those of us who are Fox proponents aren't making the case that the roster is magically fixed by adding Fox whether you trade Devin or Castle. There is still a lot more changes that would need to come. You don't trade Devin instead of Castle because the fit is better tomorrow... you trade Devin instead of Castle because Castle has promise and Devin is fully baked into what he is, which isn't good enough.

[Limguogolo]

LeBowen used a lot of words, but this image below is really all that needs to be said. I won't even add any commentary, it speaks for itself.

Yes, but Vassell also becomes the first option when... Victor is on the bench and the opposing teams enjoy the air in the Spurs paint and the Spurs cannot rely on him in attack (Spurs 2023).

Correlation is not causation (plenty of factors may explain these numbers).

Is Vassell bad in man on man defense and basketball IQ? and could the Spurs find something better as a second or third option in offense? These are the only questions to ask.

[rjv]

Then this is just a big misunderstading.
When I say he isn't that player it means I don't think he's good enough to be that player for not just us, but any playoff team.
Zach Collins is our backup big, that doesn't mean he's good enough.

exactly. at my firm, if we have a bad law clerk, we still need that clerk. if the clerk is fired, we still need to replace the clerk, hopefully with a more competent one.

We were fine without Devin while he was injured and Fox would be a huge firepower improvement.
But as it's been said many times, ideally we get a 6th man to form a three guard rotation with Fox and Castle with all of them being interchangeable.
Someone similar to Monk, Sexton, Coby White, you get the point.

agreed.

Alright, let's not use arguments, but stick to whataboutisms.
Taking a look at everyone's net rating is more than enough.
Scott posted many advanced metrics and graphs, each one shows Vassell is horrible, but you don't provide a single argument against it.

why do i need to argue about it? Or respond? He wasn't posting that as a response to anything I said and it was relevant to whatever point was being made.

Are you telling me that's not the state of Spurs fanbase.
I just opened Spurs subreddit and the first post is a tankathon screenshot, some homer hoping we get lucky again.

i'm not categorically saying anything about the state of the Spurs fan base. I could use any sample size to make my generalization look good but the same could be said of someone stating the exact opposite. Aren't you a part of the Spurs fan base?

[mudyez]

Either Fox comes before 6/2 or we're tanking hard and Wemby can forget about his DPOY and NBA Team selection (with the consequences it could have on his relationship with PATFO)

What?

[baseline bum]

If we get Fox, all we need is a starting small forward and power forward and a three-point shooting backup for SG.

Coach too

[RC_Drunkford]

A couple of thoughts, for what they are worth (which I remind everyone, is nothing):

1. Interesting to me that now Demar is saying that if Fox is traded that will raise a lot of questions about his future in SAC. DDR said Fox is a huge reason he went to SAC, so if he was gone it would raise questions. SAC may actually view this as an opportunity. Trading Fox will also allow them to move Demar and get off of that mistake and build a more coherent roster. I won't put a lot of effort into options for them, but just off the top of my head Cam Johnson as their starting 3 instead of Demar unlocks a lot for them. A starting unit of Monk/Ellis/Cam/Murray/Sabonis with Vassell as the 6th man works a of a lot better than what they have now.

2. SAC is a team like SAS that has extra incentive to "do right" by their guys. It isn't all because the FOs are full of soft es, but because as a small market team in a less attractive city, you need that reputation of being player friendly. Not just so you can land big FAs, but so you can land small ones too, and to keep the guys you already have happy and confident to be there in the event they one day need to move on. This certainly works in our favor as SAC may not want to burn Fox and Rich Paul by shipping him off to WAS or some . Klutch wants their client out of SAC and to SAS now, and if SAC can help make that happen, I'm sure Klutch will remember that and show appreciation in some way down the line. The NBA isn't different from other businesses, relationships are very important.

I don't think the Kings see trading for DeRozan as a mistake. They not the smartest bunch, neither is San Antonio though.

[baseline bum]

every time i see vivek's face i think of this old bit



based on a true story

I wish they would have filmed the Bagley pick. Or Willie Cauley-Stein. Or Jimmer. Or Thomas Robinson. Or McLemore. Or Marqueese Chriss.

[baseline bum]

A couple of thoughts, for what they are worth (which I remind everyone, is nothing):

1. Interesting to me that now Demar is saying that if Fox is traded that will raise a lot of questions about his future in SAC. DDR said Fox is a huge reason he went to SAC, so if he was gone it would raise questions. SAC may actually view this as an opportunity. Trading Fox will also allow them to move Demar and get off of that mistake and build a more coherent roster. I won't put a lot of effort into options for them, but just off the top of my head Cam Johnson as their starting 3 instead of Demar unlocks a lot for them. A starting unit of Monk/Ellis/Cam/Murray/Sabonis with Vassell as the 6th man works a of a lot better than what they have now.

2. SAC is a team like SAS that has extra incentive to "do right" by their guys. It isn't all because the FOs are full of soft es, but because as a small market team in a less attractive city, you need that reputation of being player friendly. Not just so you can land big FAs, but so you can land small ones too, and to keep the guys you already have happy and confident to be there in the event they one day need to move on. This certainly works in our favor as SAC may not want to burn Fox and Rich Paul by shipping him off to WAS or some . Klutch wants their client out of SAC and to SAS now, and if SAC can help make that happen, I'm sure Klutch will remember that and show appreciation in some way down the line. The NBA isn't different from other businesses, relationships are very important.

Wouldn't that be the most Spurs like move where they do something great in getting Fox but then it all up by trading for DeRozan too? No way Brooklyn is going to be wanting him.

[baseline bum]

This is Brian Wright's moment to tell Pop/Mitch they can't start Pena anymore

I was gonna ask who is Pena but then remembered it was reported last night that Sochan will be coming off the bench for the foreseeable future.