Legit Dilemma III: Fox incoming. CP3 vs Castle for starter spot. Do you think Mitch dares to bench CP3's old ass or to hinder Castle's growth?

[spursparker9]

Fox is starting for sure.

Who should start at the other guard spot? CP3 or Castle?

Click on the number of the poll to see who voted for who

[John B]

Remember CP3 came here after a stint with the Dubs and not liking to be a second fiddle to Curry. That was Curry!! CP3 came here to ball and play significant minutes. He was very clear about that:

What should be:
Fox, Vassell, Castle, Barnes, Wemby

But since Mitch will have no balls to sit CP3
CP3, Fox, Vassell, Sochan, Wemby
Castle, Champ, Keldon, Barnes, Mamu/Bassey

I think that would be the compromise that people could live by. I think Castle still gets plenty of minutes running the 2nd team. It would be interesting how Sochan can feed-off all the shooters around him, maybe he’ll fit right in. But what happens when CP3 retires and Castle has to start? Castle and Sochan are unplayable together unless one of them miraculously starts shooting high percentages. I guess they’ll cross that bridge and hope for the best.

[LeBowen]

CP3's intangibles are as good as it gets.
A perfect mentor, leader, floor general, we all know it.
But his style of play slows these young guys down way too much and their skillsets are way more suited for high pace.

He won't get benched out of respect, though.
CP3/Fox/Castle can still work.
No matter who starts at guard positions, Devin can't be in the starting lineup because we'd get murdered on defense.

My preferred lineup would be Fox/Castle/Champ/Barnes/Wemby, but that's also not going to happen.
Jeremy also can't be a starter with his current skillset.

I actually hope that Mitch won't have a starting lineup set in stone and that he'll try out every possible combination, we should use the rest of the season to figure out what works best.
Devin and Keldon should be made aware that they need to get their together because right now the team is legit better without them, even if we have noone else and the stats show it. Even without Fox.
Jeremy's extension is also a big question mark. Right now he's not worth more than 15 to 18 a year. Even that's generous.

[thOOdee]

I think w the fox trade a message was also sent of how valuable we consider castle. The rest of this year should be used to test things out. They’ll be times he starts and is in the second unit. I’m fine w either for this year.

[Uriel]

If Mitch's goal is to make the playoffs (which it is), he will bench Castle and start CP3 (which he will).

[Guru of Nothing]

I have no idea what CP3's long term ambitions are, but things could really be lining up nicely for him to finally get a ring - with the Spurs. Unless there's a deal putting him in an OKC or Boston uniform, his best opportunity to win a ring is right where he is, where I think he can gear up for about two more years of carefully curated load balancing (say 50 games at about 20-25 minutes per). Maybe he starts, maybe he doesn't, but if this roster comes together like we all hope it does, CP3 can put a John Elway like cap on his career - and I'll be here for it. And who knows, another year or two of CP3 could have enough gravity to pull in a third veteran for the rotation at a discount (KD would be the dream here, so adjust downwardly from here)

And then he can transition to head coach, if Becky doesn't already have the job, and begin to double his HoF credentials.

[LeBowen]

If Mitch's goal is to make the playoffs (which it is), he will bench Castle and start CP3 (which he will).

Are you sure that CP3 will be a bigger contributor than Castle with Fox also on the floor?
Idk if you noticed, but Grizzlies scored on CP3 many times and there was nothing he could do about it because our nominal SF had to guard their PG and then the matchups got scrambles, with CP3 being left on players he had no chance to defend.

[spursparker9]

Tbh we are already more than half way through the season and I think we have seen the maximum effect of CP3's influence already.

There is only so much CP3 can do and his non-scoring threat + defensive liability is an eyesore at times.

CP3 can't fix Vassell's slump; Sochan's 3 point shot; Champaigne's clumsy hand; Wemby's TO due to trying to dribble too much.

Not sure about CP3's contract but I hope he is gone before start of next season. It is time for Castle to shine

[itzsoweezee]

CP3 wouldn’t have come to San Antonio for a bench role. He basically said as much in his interviews. I think it’s very unlikely he goes to the bench.

[BatManu20]

CP3 ain't getting benched. It'll likely be Castle who does, which sucks because he's been playing by far his best ball of the season over the past 10 games.

[Dex]

Frankly, he should bench Sochan who has been playing like ass.

CP3 / Fox / Castle / Barnes / Wemby

Stagger minutes with Fox/Castle off the bench, with KJ / Vassell / Sochan / Bassey


I know that makes for a terribly small lineup, but we still have Wemby and Jeremy is doing more harm than good right now

We also can't expect Fox to come in Day 1 and understand the system or players around him, so having CP3 to run the show will be necessary imo

[TD 21]

Not sold Paul will remain post deadline, but if so, I don't see how Castle doesn't start for two reasons. 1) To provide a POA defender and 2) In a related note, to stagger him with Sochan.

[Spurminator]

I'd prefer to maximize Castle's minutes on the floor with Wemby and Fox.

Paul off the bench makes sense, if only to add some much needed BBIQ to the bench unit, but he may not go for that. If that's the case, hopefully we can facilitate a trade + buy-out.

[baseline bum]

Tbh we are already more than half way through the season and I think we have seen the maximum effect of CP3's influence already.

There is only so much CP3 can do and his non-scoring threat + defensive liability is an eyesore at times.

CP3 can't fix Vassell's slump; Sochan's 3 point shot; Champaigne's clumsy hand; Wemby's TO due to trying to dribble too much.

Not sure about CP3's contract but I hope he is gone before start of next season. It is time for Castle to shine

???

https://craftednba.com/players/chris-paul

[R. DeMurre]

Undersized back courts almost never win at high levels and are probably my biggest single pet peeve when it comes to roster construction, but then it's not like the Spurs are hoping to get a ring this year. But it does Fox a disservice right off the bat, making him guard SGs instead of PGs in his introductory games as a Spur. He has good size for a PG, but is still an undersized SG defender. I still hope they package and send CP3 and someone else off to a contender for some value. There was lots of talk that the Spurs had a wink/wink deal with Paul when he signed, and I hope it's true.

[DAF86]

I would start all 3, tbh.

[Arguendo]

CP3's intangibles are as good as it gets.
A perfect mentor, leader, floor general, we all know it.
But his style of play slows these young guys down way too much and their skillsets are way more suited for high pace.

He won't get benched out of respect, though.
CP3/Fox/Castle can still work.
No matter who starts at guard positions, Devin can't be in the starting lineup because we'd get murdered on defense.

You make some great points and CP3s play is still absolutely ELITE as a floor general today.
He's 2nd in NBA in ASS/100p behind only Trae, but way better than Trae whose A/TO per 100 is 14.8:6.0 vs 13.6:2.6 for Paul, Jokic at 13.6:4.1. Paul is easily the best, high volume efficient creator (for others) in the league today at 40. Only Hali is close (12.1:2.5).
Paul actually has a great argument to keep playing 29ish mpg, he is basically as efficient as he has ever been, but of course now he can't get to the rim and he is slow/crushing Pace. But Fox and Castle can get to the rim, Paul can efficiently create for everyone and hit 3s, Wemby's and Fox gravity provide space for everyone. Harrison can sharpshoot and fill gaps.

Castle must start because as POA defender + simply earned it. Castles splits are 15.1/4.2/3.2/0.9s/2.2TOs as a starter vs 7.2/2.8/2.2 off bench.

Personally I really want to see Paul lead our bench unit, give Fox/CAstle/Wemby/Vassell 19mpg to push the pace, and come in as a change of paceand limit possessions/pace with Sochan/KJ/Bassey/etc while up their efficiency and give Vassell the best opportunity to grow/improve his value.

As I'm writing this, I'm thinking it doesn't much matter because the minutes will be staggered. 1 of Fox or Paul will be on the floor at all times, with Castle/Vassell providing 2nd and/or 3rd handling duties.

There also doesn't have to be any minutes problem. With a 5man small rotation of Paul/Fox/Castle/Vassel/Champ there are enough minutes. 48x3=144. Paul at 29.1, Castle 25.6, Vassell 30.1, Champ 25.4= 110.2, leaving 33.8 for Fox with minutes to take from Champ and days off/injuries.
Also, Paul hasn't missed a game yet, after missing 60 games the prior 3 years, more days off are likely ahead for him.

[dbestpro]

The best way for Castle to learn is to be on the floor with Paul and Fox. Johnson and Vassel can come off the bench and chuck away with any of the three starters rotating as PG with the second unit.

[BacktoBasics]

Paul isn't going to command 30-35 minutes or anything. Nor has he to this point. I think we gain more fulfilling our obligations to him than we do making a change to the starting lineup. We're really talking about the first 7-8 minutes of a game anyway. Then run our lineups accordingly from there.

There would be no shortage of instances where we would have CP3 and Fox finish the game together anyway. Paul gets the first 7 minutes and then they utilize him for 17 minutes over the final 41 minutes of the game.

This really doesn't seem like a dilemma.

[Arguendo]

The best way for Castle to learn is to be on the floor with Paul and Fox. Johnson and Vassel can come off the bench and chuck away with any of the three starters rotating as PG with the second unit.

Agree with Castle, but leaving KJ and Vassel to chuck together leads to a fast pace and lots of very inefficient possessions where leads will evaporate. If we want to win more games this year which allows Castle and Wemby to get more big game/meaningful minutes, the best way may be to get Castle 1/2 his minutes with Paul & Fox, and Paul to get 1/2 his minutes limiting the damage KJ/Vassell can do.

[Arguendo]

Paul isn't going to command 30-35 minutes or anything. Nor has he to this point. I think we gain more fulfilling our obligations to him than we do making a change to the starting lineup. We're really talking about the first 7-8 minutes of a game anyway. Then run our lineups accordingly from there.

There would be no shortage of instances where we would have CP3 and Fox finish the game together anyway. Paul gets the first 7 minutes and then they utilize him for 17 minutes over the final 41 minutes of the game.

This really doesn't seem like a dilemma.

Paul is averaging 29.1mpg, you just laid out a scenario where he loses 5.1mpg. Paul is the most efficient creator for his teammate in the NBA today and by a significant margin.

[SPURt]

None of the above? I’d prefer keeping Barnes starting at the 4 and giving Vassell the Manu role until CP3’s wheels fall off

[BacktoBasics]

Paul is averaging 29.1mpg, you just laid out a scenario where he loses 5.1mpg. Paul is the most efficient creator for his teammate in the NBA today and by a significant margin.

You don’t add an all star and expect more minutes. He should start. Get 25-26 minutes a game. Seems appropriate.

[Arguendo]

Tbh we are already more than half way through the season and I think we have seen the maximum effect of CP3's influence already.
There is only so much CP3 can do and his non-scoring threat + defensive liability is an eyesore at times.
CP3 can't fix Vassell's slump; Sochan's 3 point shot; Champaigne's clumsy hand; Wemby's TO due to trying to dribble too much.
Not sure about CP3's contract but I hope he is gone before start of next season. It is time for Castle to shine

You've got an interesting mix a good points sprinkled in with horrible takes here.
Why would CP3 fix Vassell's slump? Could Fox pushing Vassell down to his proper 3/4 option role help with the slump?

CP3 can't fix Sochan's 3 shot? Sure, but he's already helped drastically improve it. Sochan is shooting 32.6% from 3 while being elite at the rim (68.8%), Sochan was at 24.6% and 30.8% his first 2 years, he has shown significant improvement. Him shooting 34% next season would fit with this improvement. Aaron Gordon shot 27%, 30%, 29% before jumping to 34% his 4th year. Sochan is better at the rim and from 3 compared to a 3rd year AG, while being a significantly better rebounder and passer, and getting more steals and blocks in less minutes than a 3rd year AG (who didn't have a flukely thumb injury to stall his growth). Sochan has actually shown the improvements everyone (reasonable) wanted, he looks prime to be an elite role player next season, many of you are simply too dense to observe it because perfect is the enemy of good for you and reasonable expectations don't exit.

Better passing lanes and passes help mitigate clumsy hands and need to dribble. Fox helps all this not least by taking the #2 role and pushing everyone down.
If CP3 is healthy next year, he is likely to easily be the best backup PG in the league and I doubt a 41y/o CP3 expects to start. I would love to have CP3 playing 20-25mpg and leading our bench next year, that's how we take a jump to a 50+ win team, with a bench that is not constantly getting destroyed.

[DPG21920]

Move CP and Dev to bench.