If Collins can get us Fox, Branham and Wesley will net us Jokic tbh
. How can you NOT get it. It’s two guys literally making the NBA equivalent of pocket change at $4.9M and $4.7M who have familiarity with our system and can step in, short term, to sub for injured players. You won’t find that on the waiver wire at that cost. They can also be easily flipped as ending contracts. There’s literally no downside, outside of getting some forum members panties in a bunch.
if those guys were free agents this offseason as opposed to getting their options picked up, do you really think they earn contracts more than 5 mil per year?
this is basically the same question as the devonte graham bet
whats the value in "branham being able to step in?".... the guy ing sucks. i think picking up wesley was understandable as we can at least see a trajectory to his development. well, i did, until he just stopped playing altogether. also made sense to pick up up before we had Fox, and with Paul/Tre on expiring deals.
but malaki? jfc
If you don't have Malaki, you might be forced into a position where you have to play some vet minimum guy and he might be terrible. Possibly as bad as Malaki. Better to just pay double and lock in a Malaki-level performance while you can.if those guys were free agents this offseason as opposed to getting their options picked up, do you really think they earn contracts more than 5 mil per year?
this is basically the same question as the devonte graham bet
whats the value in "branham being able to step in?".... the guy ing sucks. i think picking up wesley was understandable as we can at least see a trajectory to his development. well, i did, until he just stopped playing altogether. also made sense to pick up up before we had Fox, and with Paul/Tre on expiring deals.
but malaki? jfc
If Jeremy was 6’10” I would be optimistic with him. Dennis Rodman grew 8 inches when he was 19 so there’s always hope. If his inner clock ran a bit faster. I’d go 4x64 and that sounds a little rich.
its the mystery box meme, but instead of a boat, its a piece of
Do you think those two contracts are in any way onerous or inhibiting us from doing anything, or likely to do so in the next 16 months?
Except they literally can't as evidenced when we had injured players this season and they were either terrible during limited minutes or remained glued to the bench...
I'd rather spend that "pocket change" on NBA level players tbh
Look at teams like MEM and OKC. Their rosters are filled with guys who step in and deliver when the teams face injuries. OKC just made room to sign Ajay Mitc , an actual useful player, to a full deal. We could have drafted Ajay Mitc , but instead we sold Johnny Furphy for a few bucks and drafted Juan Nunez just so we wouldn't have to deal with him on the roster. Is having Malaki Branham on the team better or worse than having Ajay Mitc or Jaylen Wells (another guy we could have drafted) on the team?
It's not that Bran or Blake are stopping us from doing anything in a practical sense, it's that the team is simply resigned to these two guys being the last roster spots and seemingly have zero desire to look at potential options to upgrade them. "Why would we draft Ajay Mitc or Jaylen Wells? We already have Malaki!"
MEM and OKC are able to find guys with SRPs to who can actually contribute because they don't hold sacred roster spots for the Malaki Branhams of the league. Jaylen Wells, Scottie Pippen Jr, GG Jackson II, Jay Huff, Vince Williams... all guys who started as SRPs or Two-Way guys who have been contributors for MEM just in the last two seasons because they don't tie up the end of their roster with charity cases.
I mean, we literally waived Brandon Boston Jr. so that we could keep Malaki Branham. Boston is by no means a world beater, but I'd imagine if you polled 29 other teams who they'd rather have, the answer would be pretty unanimous. Even if Malaki is just here to be trade filler if needed... Boston would be more valuable trade filler.
He has better 3pt shooting projection than Ausar and Amen who are older by a few months. Aaron Gordon at 21 is shooting 28% from three. The ability to play as a roll man and play PG in transition mitigates some concern about being a non shooting wing. Cause he does not function as a wing the whole time on the court. That secondary ballhandling against pressure defense and big wing POA are more valuable in playoff series. A decent corner 3pt shot would make him a starter for a playoff team and that is easier to develop than lateral speed or ball handling for forwards. Teams always ovverate their development staff so it is not too farfetched for other GM to look at Sochan as a decent C&S 3 away from the being most desirable playoff role player and would offer a contract accordingly.Multiple teams with interest could push it past 20 mil per year.
Last edited by rankingtear; 02-11-2025 at 07:30 PM.
Man, you just never learn, do you?
if a player can’t learn our system we don’t want them. And that is a reach given consensus is the coaching/system need to be upgraded to begin with.
That said, I admire the loyalty I just want to move forward with more upside prospects.
So this is a very good point and I wanted to take a look at this more closely, looking at comparable players and contracts. I picked 4 other players in the league known to be strong defense-first players and wanted to see what kind of contracts that they got after their first rookie contract.
Per 100 possessions:
Jeremy Sochan: 21.5p/13r/5a/1.6st/1.5bl on 56% eFG
Jaden McDaniels: 18.7/6/2.9/1.5/1.5 on 58%
OG Anunoby 16.9/8/2.5/2.2/1 on 58.4%
Jonathan Isaac 20/11.5/2.4/2.6/3.9 on 51.8%
Herb Jones: 17/8.4/2.5/2.2/1 with 58.4%
Name Contract Average Cap hit 3P/100 Jeremy Sochan 0.9 Jonathan Isaac 4 years, 69 million 14.10% 1.6 Herb Jones 4 years, 54 million 8.96% 2.4 Jaden McDaniels 5 years, 131 million 15.63% 2.1 OG Anunoby 4 years, 72 million ? 2
So these numbers tell us a few things:
1. Sochan's still really really young. 21 is just a baby and he's got a long runway ahead of him. Right now his impact at the same age compares favorably to OG Anunoby and Jaden McDaniels at the same age. Herb Jones was drafted when he was much older while Jonathan Isaac has always been more impactful although his career has been marred by injury.
2. I use 3p made/100 possessions as my own personal catch-all metric of a shooter's gravity.It works reasonably well I think, as it takes into account both shooting percentage and volume of 3 pointers and normalizes them by rate. Generally I've found that anything above 4 is a very good to excellent shooter (Dame, Luka, Kennard, Isaiah Joe), 3-4 is good (Wemby, Vassell), 2-3 is average (Kuzma, Franz, SGA, Jaylen Brown, Caruso), and below 2 is poor to non-shooter (Butler, Smart, Thompson twins). What's enlightening is that most of the guys he comps too weren't exactly deadeye shooters but at least "average". On the other hand, Sochan is really not too far away from his comps when it comes to shooting gravity - it really comes down to about 1 extra 3 pointer made per 100 possessions.
3. These numbers suggest that Sochan would be well within reason to ask for 20 million a year based on the rising cap. Isaac, McDaniels, and OG were all above 10% of the cap per year as was Okongwu, as you mentioned. His per 100 stats are better than similar players at the same age while his impact metrics are similar.
4. That being said, it is important to note that the prior contracts were all handed out prior to second apron rules - it will be interesting to see how much of a penalty these rules and his shooting deficiencies play on his next contract.
OK you talked us up to $15 million a year for Sochan but no more! We are already meeting you halfway from $10 millsSo this is a very good point and I wanted to take a look at this more closely, looking at comparable players and contracts. I picked 4 other players in the league known to be strong defense-first players and wanted to see what kind of contracts that they got after their first rookie contract.
Per 100 possessions:
Jeremy Sochan: 21.5p/13r/5a/1.6st/1.5bl on 56% eFG
Jaden McDaniels: 18.7/6/2.9/1.5/1.5 on 58%
OG Anunoby 16.9/8/2.5/2.2/1 on 58.4%
Jonathan Isaac 20/11.5/2.4/2.6/3.9 on 51.8%
Herb Jones: 17/8.4/2.5/2.2/1 with 58.4%
Name Contract Average Cap hit 3P/100 Jeremy Sochan 0.9 Jonathan Isaac 4 years, 69 million 14.10% 1.6 Herb Jones 4 years, 54 million 8.96% 2.4 Jaden McDaniels 5 years, 131 million 15.63% 2.1 OG Anunoby 4 years, 72 million ? 2
So these numbers tell us a few things:
1. Sochan's still really really young. 21 is just a baby and he's got a long runway ahead of him. Right now his impact at the same age compares favorably to OG Anunoby and Jaden McDaniels at the same age. Herb Jones was drafted when he was much older while Jonathan Isaac has always been more impactful although his career has been marred by injury.
2. I use 3p made/100 possessions as my own personal catch-all metric of a shooter's gravity.
3. These numbers suggest that Sochan would be well within reason to ask for 20 million a year based on the rising cap. Isaac, McDaniels, and OG were all above 10% of the cap per year as was Okongwu, as you mentioned. His per 100 stats are better than similar players at the same age while his impact metrics are similar.
4. That being said, it is important to note that the prior contracts were all handed out prior to second apron rules - it will be interesting to see how much of a penalty these rules and his shooting deficiencies play on his next contract.
I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything, just trying to add new information to a discussion
Sure you weren’t
The end of our roster is now an empty spot, and a guy on a ten day. Do you think those two contracts will stop us from doing something with those spots, or is it probably not worth pissing one’s pants over two deals that total less than $10M next year?
So if I read you correctly, the Sochan defenders are going to use the "he has to play backup center" (occasionally) as an excuse the same way they used his exp (barely a month) playing PG to excuse his previous season??
This is beyond the definition of insanity, it's pure mental illness at this point
Last edited by Pauleta14; 02-11-2025 at 11:25 PM.
It's not Collins that gave us Fox, it's LaVine and the pressure Fox put on his FO, we luck out
Whatever contract you give to any player, you should be able to trade him the day of the signature.
I doubt it'd be the case for Sochan with a near 5y/$100M
If he wasn't a Spur, would you want to trade for Sochan, even at 4y/64M?
I wouldn't
We didn't have those roster spots open until recently. We certainly didn't have them open when we released other players and passed on Jaylen Wells and Ajay Mitc because we only wanted an SRP who would accept a 2-way with us.
The money is irrelevant. The team's complete disregard for properly utilizing the end of the roster is not.
I realize being a pedantic wad is kind of your shtick, but this one is even a new low for you... which is saying something considering the bangers you've put out together (Vassell has turned a corner based on a 4-game sample. Sochan's shot appears fixed based on a *6 shot sample*). Classic.
That’s all I needed to see. The money is irrelevant. The two basically empty roster spots are irrelevant. Good job blending in with the mindless rabble here, Scott.
Yes. Aaron Gordon as a 3rd year player put up similar numbers, and his extension at that time scaled to the current cap would be about 4/110. OG Anunoby had a prior ACL tear and his rookie extension scales to about 4/92. 4/64 would be a bargain for 21 year old Sochan and I think you would find that most front offices would jump on that deal. 21 year old Gordon was a better player than 21 year old Sochan, but not almost double the player.
This is beyond my comprehension. Basically you are saying since a horribly run franchise (which at the time the magic was the absolute worst franchise in the league) made a bad mistake and offered Gordon that contract we should also make a bad mistake on Sochans contract.
I keep hearing how “other teams” or “most FOs” would sign Sochan to large contract. Here’s the thing, they won’t. What are these mythical “other teams” and do yall even know the fit and cap scenario of these teams? Seriously name me a team that would do so. I’d love to know which team is going to offer Sochan $20 million a year to be a back up big for them.
If I were the Spurs I would let Sochan test the market. See what actual offers he would get from actual real life teams instead of these mythical teams Sochan supporters keep telling me about and then go from there.
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