https://airalamo.com/jeremy-sochan-s...sive-benchmark
was testing to see if this article would even post correctly from The Score app. Pretty good read, Sochan sixth fastest in Spurs history to 1500 points and 1000 rebounds.
He would never have sustained his averages bc Wemby didn't really started his season yet. As we've seen, Sochan is a lot more comfortable without Wemby where he can roll and the play is much simpler (he doesn't have to think and the skillset required is less important)
Also he hadn't been game planned yet and we see what happen when opp team do it, they just make him dribble the ball or dare him to shoot allowing them to pack the paint.
Anything he brings on defense, he costs more on offense
Stockton and Malone.Who TF are MAGA and Pedo?
Great timing for the sniffers
It never ceases to amaze me how people cannot understand the concept of game to game variance, and that sochan is a role player who is bound to have good games and bad. If he produces evenly with little variance throughout the year, he’d be know as Groundhog Day, which we all know who has that nickname.
Over the year sochan has improved in various aspects of the game, he still has glaring weaknesses in outside shooting, and should stay away from being a creator, which honestly not too many people in the league can do effectively but that fact seems to be lost on so many people. His defense is above average at the minimum, perimeter defense is very good to excellent, offensive rebounding is excellent, passing is adequate, defensive rebounding is slightly above average, cutting is good to excellent, finishing around the basket is good to excellent, and most importantly he seems to be working well with wemby with their inside passing.
To say sochan is a scrub and should be dumped is just a re ed take. To trade him for a useful piece I can see but then who that is is up for debate.
Sochan isn’t really that common of a player in this league, there are maybe 5 players currently in the league with that profile, with Aaron Gordon being a goal he should strive for.
His scoring this year, both in volume and efficient, are about 75th percentile. His ballhandling attribute are about middle of the league or so, his defense is estimated at 80th percentile, rebounding is close to 90th. Instead of focusing on what he can’t do, which admittedly are glaring, focus on what he can. It is the job of the coaching staff to figure out how he fits in the system and if one isn’t doable with wemby as the centre of it, ship him out for a decent return.
How dare you bring common sense and thoughtfulness into the spursedgelords.com forums.
This team is ty coached. Sochan is doing all good basketball fundamental things. It should be used better. As we could see two man game with Wemby earlier this year.
Now the scheme is allover the place. Spurs has no iden y tbh. It's painful to watch. And I would not blame Sochan much as he plays a role now with limited minutes and with different lineups cause he he was thrown in in different Q minutes frame.
Agreed. Obviously he still makes bonehead plays and isn't a threat as a shooter, but you can see potential in the hussle and intangibles, as well as on the defensive end. Reality is that we spent the better part of a year trying to make him play point guard, and now we are spending an awful lot of minutes tryin to make him work as a backup C. It's outrageous.
I need to see a full year of Sochan playing exclusively his role at PF or SF in a big lineup to make any final judgements. It's criminal the disservice we've done developing him the last couple of years.
Also he is one with the character there where the rest of a team plays undesire ball.
This team needs some NASTY
It was only 18 games.
Good take. I think the piece you left out is fit. As you said, he isn't a very common archetype in this league, but honestly I think that's because that archetype is hard to fit into the modern NBA. There are certain team builds where it works, but I'm not sure that is the path the Spurs are going down... and it certainly doesn't seem to fit with a Wemby/Fox/Castle big 3.
That pushes him to be a bench player, and as KobesAchilles points out, there is only so much you should be willing to pay bench players.
My own opinion, which is worth nothing, is that Jeremy has shown growth in a lot of areas and that is good. He also has some weaknesses that are likely to be permanent deficiencies. I don't want to see the Spurs dole out a big contract to a piece that doesn't fit, because that's just what we always do. We already have fairly big contracts on two other pieces that that don't really fit in Keldon and Vassell. I give those contracts a bit more of a pass because at the time of those deals our future iden y was less clear. But now it seems pretty obvious to me (barring some surprise big shake up) that it is going to be Wemby/Fox/Castle, and if that is the case, I think it is very fair to question how Sochan fits into that.
^ fair points but I personally think that players with sochans profile can be useful in winning teams, despite his shooting woes. The brighter side is also how he seems to be fixing his shot, bit by bit. The weird hitch is lessened, and if it can move into a smoother release, it would also become a quicker release, which would make him more of a threat from outside.
In terms of the spurs system, again I’m seeing no system, it’s like throwing spaghetti on the wall and see if it sticks. But I hope FO will eventually realize wemby is actually Garnett 2.0, not Durant. His offensive and defensive strengths resembles a prime Garnett with an additional 10 feet range. Not the strongest of the ball handler like Durant, but most definitely way above average for a big, almost SF like. Good passing instincts though I recalled Garnett not being close to as good a passer off the dribble. If we can build a system with those strengths, I can see somewhat of a jokic role for wemby, but wemby has to move a bit closer to the high or low post instead of hanging out too much at the three point line.
Castle seems to be blossoming before our eyes but we saw that with sochan (not to that degree) but sochan was jerked around so much I believed he’s damaged goods now, so I hope FO learned from this and stop doing their crazy ass on a young player.
Fox I’m still on the fence, his speed and attacking of the basket is just elite, but with wemby hanging out at the three so much will they use this as a high pick and pop between the two? But then that would require three high level shooters around them and castle isnt one (yet). But if they decide to move wemby closer to the paint area as the hub then it may stop the castle drives.
At this point I just wish the FO will pick a lane. They pick up players like a granny at a flea market, just get whatever looks interesting at a right price.
Lol what a coincidence that Poland does nothing other than defend Sochan.
I envision the third core player is flawed all defense type for it to be sustainable. That is why I think Sochan is the 3rd most important player in this group moving forward. Does not mean he would be the 3rd highest paid.
I'd be remiss if I didn't also present the other side of the argument though. People who are down on Sochan have absolutely valid points. I'm high-ish on Sochan, but a big part of that is his age. I absolutely don't blame anyone on this board who thinks he's worth a 4/48 or even less, since if he never develops additional perimeter skill and stays as he currently is, he's basically Jarred Vanderbilt who is probably overpaid at 4/48 with the Lakers. If he were the same age as Vassell or Keldon, I'd be way lower on him and probably offer something like 4/40 or even lower, but I'm still willing to bet on some shooting improvement. If he can get himself up to 2.5 3PM/100 possessions in the next 3 years, there's very little separating him from other high level role playing big wing. I hate that everything boils down to the ability to hit a corner 3 consistently, but it really will depend on how the Spurs feel his shooting projects over the next 3-4 years.Fantastic work on that comparison.
I especially like your method of estimating gravity as a shooter. It shows that Sochan has essentially none, which agrees with the eye test.
I think the backlash against 100/5 is the extra digit in the number, or at least the sense that $100M is "too much" for someone like Sochan. That's why it's best to look at contracts in terms of % of the cap rather than absolute dollar amounts, especially with the cap growing so quickly. The MLE starts at 9% of the cap; 10% is hardly onerous for a young key role-player.
imo 100/5 is fair value, 90/5 would be team-friendly, and 80/5 would be a steal.
Sochan has been asked to do too many things in my view and there are a couple of things that are most uncomfortable for him - playing PG and playing backup C while defending perimeter scorers as well. If Sochan can be asked to play PF and some SF and paired with Fox and Wemby, I think he can be a pest for the opposing team and a net positive despite lack of 3P shooting. But if his shooting perks up, he will be a vital member of the core. but the Spurs must get a good backup C and free up Sochan from that role.
Sochan wouldn’t even be in any playoff team’s rotation with his antiquated game and low b ball IQ. His defense is wildly overrated.
The Spurs don’t appear to have a system in place to develop young talent at this time. It’s sink or swim. Except for Wemby and Castle all the young guys are treading water. I’m resigned to the notion that Jeremy will get a contract and that contract will be hard for him to live up to. I really don’t give a damn if he’s a good locker room guy. He made a personal choice to play only 1 year in college after which he thought he was ready for the NBA. He wasn’t. I’d rather he focused on being a lock-down defender. People here saying he should get a chance to be a 3 or a 4, but with Wemby on the team the 4 means playing the 5 on offense. That leaves the 3 position. 3 position sometimes has to help bring the ball up the court, which his backers on here admit he can’t do. As it is, this team has to be built around Victor.
Sochan has only been asked to do one thing: develop a reliable jump shot. How does a professional basketball player go this long without being able to do that?
Jeremy does a ton of things that are super valuable, but it's hard to see them when he has a hitchy, inconsistent shot that he doesn't trust this far into his career. Castle shoots with confidence like a seasoned vet. And suddenly, like magic, his numbers start to improve. Not his minutes, but that's another thread. Jeremy likely starts if his jumper didn't still stink.
This is true, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have potential and isn't worth keeping... but I think that's where a lot of us kind of cap out at an MLE-level deal. The potential is worth that level of a gamble (and I'd only do a 3 year deal if possible, make the 4th year a team option if possible).Sochan wouldn’t even be in any playoff team’s rotation with his antiquated game and low b ball IQ. His defense is wildly overrated.
The same can be said of Vassell and Keldon. Neither of those guys are sniffing heavy rotation minutes on a serious team. Thankfully this forum is a little more realistic, unlike Reddit where people think these Friendship Care Bears are part of some untouchable core.
eh, he's been asked to do a lot of things. he is asked to defend guards. he is asked to defend and rebound amongst bigs. he's asked to be a pick and roll finisher. he often has to use footwork to get shots off in the paint against bigger guys defending him
i would absolutely agree that outside shooting was his biggest swing skill, and the improvement there so far... is hard to really detect. percentage is decent enough this year but on much much lower volume. he's also still just 21, so he has a lot of improvement left in him
I think it’s fair to say any hate Sochan gets is due to organizational faults. For instance, FP stated that Sochan wouldn’t be a starter on any contender (Lakers aside maybe). And that is most likely a true statement when you run down the team list. But I don’t blame Sochan for that. I blame the Spurs.
Sochan ideally shouldn’t be a starter on this team. He should be a high energy bench guy who comes in and fights for rebounds, plays good defense, maybe even does a little play making/finishing. That should be his role on our team. But we don’t have the talent for him to play his ideal role. So instead of getting talent to help Sochan the Spurs tried to magically transform him into a higher level player than he should be asked to be.
Should Sochan have ever been asked to run PG? The answer is no. And to those idiots who say well it was only 18 games, it wasn’t. It was a whole wasted offseason and a whole wasted season in general. The Spurs moved Sochan around so much that he had no chance of having a good sop re season. It hurt his offensive game more than I think anyone here would like to admit. Role players are specialists for a reason and the Spurs would’ve been wiser to acknowledge that fact instead of being cute.
Now to where I do blame Sochan is his horrible ing shot. How tf is your shot that bad? I don’t want to see any videos of Sochan shooting 3s anymore. He doesn’t shoot them in the game bc he doesn’t feel comfortable with his shot bc he knows it’s garbage. I’d rather he shot 100 shots from 8 feet, 100 from 10 feet, 100 from 12 feet, 100 from 14 and then 100 from 16 every single day. It bothers me to see him only shooting 3s as if that’s going to fix his shot. If you’re going to completely rehaul his entire shooting mechanics then you might as well go back to the basics all the damn way
TLDR: Spurs are a badly run organization still with how we use Sochan. Sochan needs to learn how to shoot if he is stay a starter on a contender or else he is just a nice bench player for the rest of his career.
i dont know if you've noticed, but he's been coming off the bench for a while now
Sochan has no excuses.
He was gifted a starting position while not deserving to be a starter as a rookie and was only a starter because the spurs didn't care to win games
and were tanking/experimenting as a team so he had many opportunities to improve while getting starters minutes.
He only played 18 games as a starting pg then he was moved back to pf and had some of his worst games at pf. I can't buy into his overall poor play was due to the 18 games he put time in as pg.
At first many people in here said it was good for his development to play pg when it happened and now the narrative is it is the excuse for his slow development.
The reality is Sochan is limited in his abilities, will never be a high volume shooter/scorer and is best suited as a pf coming off the bench. There is no justification to have to try to start him because he was a top ten draft pick.
Best line of action for the Spurs is to get a pf with a higher ceiling and see Sochan as only a solid backup pf, whose minutes will depend on team matchups.
Sochan has value. But given that the Spurs have gaping holes at forward, and he is a forward, if he were that guy he’d be starting and playing 36 minutes. That he isn’t tells you what even the Spurs think of him.
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