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Can I ask why? Are you wanting to see how Victor and Fox mesh for the majority of the games?
this bottom line play Castle more. Play Mamu and Bassey more. Cut Keldon. sux ass
Can I ask why? Are you wanting to see how Victor and Fox mesh for the majority of the games?
Until Fox gets shut down, yeah.
As long as the Spurs are honoring this deal with Paul, we can't be expecting to like, win or anything.
Going back to Mitch, the only thing he's done correctly was to send Zollins, Branham and to a much lesser degree Wesley (I still think he can be useful) to the Shadow Realm. Keldon should be flexing and waving that towel from the end of the bench to finish the season and trading his ass along with Vassell in the summer.
You think breaking a promise to Chris Paul won't get around to every other player in the league? Dude was president of the NBAPA until a couple of years ago.
This is an interesting question that I think deserves a little more debate.
On one hand, you made a promise to a guy who likely knows just about everyone else in the league... but probably 75% of all those guys he knows hate him. Spurs can't afford to be a team with reputation that it doesn't live up to their word, but cir stances have changed to the point that it's clear to pretty much everyone who's ever watched more than 10 minutes of basketball that CP3 should be coming off the bench. It's so painfully obvious that Castle should be starting over CP3, that it might be at the point where CP3 ing about "broken promises" might get met with "yeah, I hear ya man... but... you see what happened right?"
On the other hand, by continuing to start CP3 you also send the message that you're not an organization who operates on meritocracy. So just like a broken promise to CP3 might hurt us in recruiting old ass FAs who NEED a promise, not starting the guy who has clearly earned it might hurt us with hungry young players looking for a chance to shine. I'm thinking about one of my pet cats, Jake LaRavia. What if he's deciding between destinations and San Antonio is on the list, but he's thinking "but even if I significantly outperform Harrison Barnes I'm still going to be stuck on the bench playing 20 minutes a night... that"
I think there are three pretty obvious solutions here, and I actually expect Mitch to take one of them coming out of the ASB:
1. You go to CP3 and have a sit down. "Things have changed. We've lived up to our promise up until now, we've given you an opportunity to pass up Kidd in steals and assists. We love and value you. But things have changed. Do you want to come off the bench, or do you want to find another team? We'll accommodate either." I actually think this is the least probable outcome, which is okay because the next two make just as much sense, IMO.
2. You just start Castle in place of Vassell. We sure as don't have a promise made to Main Character Dev (though it's possible one exists in the simulated reality his lives in, where he and Kobe are hanging out day after day, going on tour as the two greatest players of all time). You tell Dev that this is his chance to carve out a long-term role on the team as a super 6th man. He could actually be a 6MOY type player if he committed to this role. Our franchise has the greatest 6th man of all time. He can follow in that legacy. Or we can find him a new home on whatever team needs a tank commander next season and he can live out his Main Character fantasies there. This option makes a ton of sense because not only do you get to see Wemby/Fox/Castle together but you also get to audition Vassell for the best role for him going forward. It's not really ideal, and we'll quickly have to rotate one of those guards out (preferably CP3) to ensure that one of CP3/Fox/Castle is on the court at all times (and ideally one of Fox/CP3 is on the court for a majority of those minutes. I'd do this I'm the Spurs.
3. You keep the lineups the same but just adjust the rotation so that CP3 gets a quick hook for Castle after 4 minutes and then it's almost like Castle started anyway. CP3 can play 26 minutes, 34 minutes for Fox, 30 minutes for Castle, and you still have 6 minutes for Dev at the 2 to go with another 24 at the 3. Each guy gets his PT. Problem solved. This is the easiest solution that requires the least amount of guts. So few guts, in fact, that I'm shocked Mitch hasn't already come up with it.
thanks for the write-up scott
this is assuming the spurs literally promised Paul he can start all 82 games as long as he's healthy enough to play no matter what (something im somewhat skeptical of)
i think option 1 was very obvious, but might be too late. the spurs told paul he can come and start, sure. but nobody in their right minds would fault the spurs for executing the De'Aaron Fox trade. imo they kind of already messed up by starting them together. if they just immediately proceeded as you described, they could have just sold it very cleanly as "fox replaced paul in the lineup", and not a rookie. but now that precedent has been set of paul/fox starting together, now paul will be getting benched for a rookie.
as for option 2... i dont like the idea of having our 3 point/combo guards all starting together. makes staggering them even more difficult. i also thing its best vassell be given more time to try and figure things out. at this point, im about as skeptical as you are of this, but given his age, contract, and talent level... its worth having him go out there among fox/wemby and doing his best to make that work
option 3 is probably the way to go. have paul be the nominal starter but scale back his minutes. paul/fox start together, paul is the first guy to sub out, and then by the time Fox (who plays big minutes) subs out, Paul is ready to come back in, so you have one of them on at all times
with all that said, i'm not convinced they made some unconditional promise, and should just sub paul out for castle anyway
The Promise
Maybe BWrong can pull a Frank Costello on CP3 during the AS break tbh
For a little context about "the promise":
What complicates the situation is that it is Pop who convinced Paul to sign as a starter. And Pop said his goal is to be back coaching again.
Johnson or Wright aren't really in a situation to have the talk with Paul. Only Pop can have it.
I like option #3. I think it's important to not just forget all the good CP3 has done for this team just because they got Fox now. Until the Fox trade most of us were pretty thrilled with what CP3 has brought to this team. I don't think someone like LaRavia is going to think the Spurs promised Harrison Barnes a starting spot, that seems like a real stretch. Option #1 is a complete no-go for me, I appreciate the out of CP3 and the improvement he has brought this team so there is no way in I'm pressuring him to go play somewhere else.
If I am the Spurs I want Fox, CP3 and Castle in the last 3 minutes of every quarter going forward. It gives Castle experience in what to do during winning time. It gives the Spurs a closer in Fox and it gives us a competent floor general making all our decisions in crunch time. Everything else I don’t really care about
nobody would pressure him to go play somewhere else. if he's just refusing to give up a starting gig when it makes sense for the club to do so, then thats on him. where else could he even go where he would start?
were it not for the Fox trade, i wouldnt have even considered benching Paul. id have continued to start Paul/Castle/Vassell and proceeded as we were. but things changed.
Yeah, I think #3 is perfectly fine, and it's easy. Like... really ing easy. I only like #2 because I don't think there is any room for the roster for Devin as a #4 option getting paid 20% of the cap, so he really needs to become a high end 6th man or be moved, so this allows us to audition him in that role. However, you can still achieve that in Option 3.
For Option 3, I see it working something like this. This requires moving Keldon out of the rotation, which is something we should have done a long time ago, but that's a topic for another day.
Pop has been at the Spurs practice facility since the trade deadline and is on calls with players and the bumass coaching staff everyday. He could just tell him to sit his ass down on the bench if he wanted to.
3. was my first suggestion as well, just make him the nominal starter and sub him out early. But according to Mitch line ups are "a rubik cube waiting to be solved".(He really said that )
Obviously Mitch and the players, when it comes to Pop talking to them. As far as Pop being in the facility, Don Harris' podcast. They were saying that there were rumblings he was at the facility and then multiple people said the same thing. This happened before the Fox trade.
Yeah, I read that Rubik's Cube thing on a Reddit post and it made me LOL. Reddit full of the dumbest sniffers in the Spurs universe, I swear.3. was my first suggestion as well, just make him the nominal starter and sub him out early. But according to Mitch line ups are "a rubik cube waiting to be solved".
My response to the Rubik's Cube thing was that the problem is that the Rubik's Cube seemingly befuddles Mitch, whereas there are 8 year olds who can solve a Rubik's Cube in under 5 minutes.
That quote reads like its from the dark ages before analytics were a thing, jfc.
CP3 is most suited to be our head coach in waiting.
I took the Rubik’s cube thing to mean nothing more than that he just needed a chance to put pen to paper on the changes to the rotation, not that it was some kind of unsolvable enigma.
Doesn't have the personality for long-term head coaching in the vein of Pop, in my opinion. Grates on people too much.
Would be good for an up and coming team like us, I'll admit. But for a championship level roster, I don't think he'd be in the players' good graces very long.
Yeah, knowledge of the game isn’t the only qualification. Players take stuff from veteran players that they wouldn’t from a coach. He might well wind up like AJ, an extremely knowledgeable former NBA PG who just grates on players so much that he loses the locker room. , AJ grated on Spurs players when he was active. He got into a fight with Malik, and once told DRob that God should take his gifts away since he did appreciate or maximize them.
I agree. AJ is great and super knowledgeable, but he seems to really wear on players. He really has all the knowledge to be a great coach, but didn't quite have the personality/demeanor. Pop, when he was at his best had a great balance of people skills, knowledge and also able to be a hard ass and not lose his players.
Darn, I didn't know AJ said that to David. I wonder what he said to Malik to start that fight. I don't remember the details, was too young.
Didn't he also grate on TD? As in, TD wanted him off the team/didn't want him brought back?
Last edited by Ice009; 02-15-2025 at 10:10 AM.
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