On This Season And Looking Ahead To The Off Season

[TD 21]

Since Wembanyama's diagnosis was obviously the final nail in the coffin.

They'll mostly be absolved of external blame due to the health status of Popovich and Wembanyama, but this season has been an unmitigated disaster.

The offense was only functional with a 39 year old initiating it and the defense was only functional with the future GOAT defensive anchor backstopping it.

Otherwise, not a single young or youngish player showed marked improvement (you could argue Sochan, but not with his biggest weakness). In fact, most regressed. The atrocious amateur scouting and development of the past three quarters of a decade remains.

The excuses/reasons for the constant inep ude end the moment this season does. Presuming relative health for Wembanyama and Fox, it's playoffs or bust and the organization should (but won't) own it immediately at the onset of the off season.

The obvious needs are size, shooting and toughness, but here's some questions (and a few answers) I have . . .

Who starts between Sochan and Castle? Probably Sochan. The starters desperately need more size, he needs a floor spacing rim protector alongside and since he'll be tasked with defending POA 1-4 by default, also a wing-forward who can defend up.

Can Castle handle primary creation duties off the bench? Probably not, but either way he's likely to be in line for it, given the investment made in their signed top three guards and various other needs.

Did Vassell's surgeries change the trajectory of his career or were they just a bump in the road that a healthy off season/training can solve? If they believe it's the former . . .

Does Vassell or Johnson get traded to balance the roster? They'd be selling low obviously and I'll believe a significant trade that they weren't nudged into when I see it.

If not, what is the plan for the front court and how do they intend to structure it? Continue to exclusively play wing-forwards at the 4 or with the league shifting back to more two big lineups, target a combo-hybrid big?

If the 1sts land in the projected range, do they get consolidated or one traded for a future pick(s) to replenish some of what was sent out in the Fox trade?

Do they think outside the box and utilize one to target an otherwise unavailable, cost controlled young veteran who can help now?

[scott]

Thanks OP, I think this is a good meta thread topic for the doldrums of yet another meaningless final stretch of the season for our Spurs.

I presume the "they" you refer to in your second line is the Front Office/organization at large? I agree with you on that. I think they'll be largely given a pass by everyone involved.

Right now I think there is only a 40% chance we see a coaching change this offseason, and a 60% chance that it's either Pop back as HC to start next season, or Mitch still with an interim tag, awaiting Pop's maybe-return.

I also think there is a very strong possibility next year that the roster is essentially just run-it-back without CP3 and with two rookies and maybe some turnover at the end of the bench. It would be a 0% surprise to me if this is our opening day roster:

PG: Fox, Wesley
SG: Vassell, Castle, Branham
SF: Johnson, Champagnie
PF: Barnes, Sochan
C: Wemby

That's 10 guys. Add two rookies, maybe even three if we use our SRP. Then just some cheap backup bigs.

The rationale given by the team, and slurped up by Sniffers world wide, is that we made major additions in Fox and two FRPs. The FriendshipCore of Vassell, Keldon and Sochan showed promise at the end of the season (whether or not they actually do) and we shouldn't give up on them.

Someone please tell me there is no way you see this happening... because I can totally see this happening.

[dn0774]

I can only hope Pop has the strength to see that his time as an NBA coach has reached its conclusion and to pass the baton off to the best candidate after an exhaustive coaching search/recruitment is conducted. Pop still has wisdom to share but it can be done from another role in the organization. If we run it back with interim Mitch or Pop it will tell me they aren’t serious about contending. Pop should learn from Ruth Bader Ginsburg about holding on to the reins for too long.

[spursistan]

Glad you are finally coming around the idea that coaching is major issue for this team TD21 . I mean I agree with you, that in this league, when all things are more or less equal, talent (elite one) carries the day irrespective of the coaching variable. But at the developmental/formative level it still matters. I would even argue they've failed to unlock Wemby as much as they should in his sop re season.


They story of this so-called improvement this season was the product of Wembanyama going on a torrid 7-week run-- from the first week of Nov until the second Denver game-- playing at essentially Top 5 level (all relevant adv metrics bore that out.. EPM, BPM etc..) and Paul proving he still has something left in the tank to floor-raise an offense to respectability. The moment both dropped off; the team cratered in their wake.


In a way, we really lucked out with the timing of Wembanyama’s diagnosis having already secured Fox, gotten ENOUGH of a look at the supposed original young core (Johnson, Vassell, Sochan), and seen the inadequacy of the crew/committee subbing in for Pop in what was trending somewhat like a 'lost season'. It would have been two if a laboring Wembanyama fell down with the DVT during Euro Basket or in a futile attempt to chase the play-in in mid April..

[Robz4000]

Thanks OP, I think this is a good meta thread topic for the doldrums of yet another meaningless final stretch of the season for our Spurs.

I presume the "they" you refer to in your second line is the Front Office/organization at large? I agree with you on that. I think they'll be largely given a pass by everyone involved.

Right now I think there is only a 40% chance we see a coaching change this offseason, and a 60% chance that it's either Pop back as HC to start next season, or Mitch still with an interim tag, awaiting Pop's maybe-return.

I also think there is a very strong possibility next year that the roster is essentially just run-it-back without CP3 and with two rookies and maybe some turnover at the end of the bench. It would be a 0% surprise to me if this is our opening day roster:

PG: Fox, Wesley
SG: Vassell, Castle, Branham
SF: Johnson, Champagnie
PF: Barnes, Sochan
C: Wemby

That's 10 guys. Add two rookies, maybe even three if we use our SRP. Then just some cheap backup bigs.

The rationale given by the team, and slurped up by Sniffers world wide, is that we made major additions in Fox and two FRPs. The FriendshipCore of Vassell, Keldon and Sochan showed promise at the end of the season (whether or not they actually do) and we shouldn't give up on them.

Someone please tell me there is no way you see this happening... because I can totally see this happening.

I absolutely see all of that happening tbh. Also wouldn't shock me if Wemby is forced into retirement and the franchise is sunk.

[John B]

Wemby is back with a vengeance, pissed and hungrier than ever after missing out on DPOY, and the playoffs again! He didn’t plan his NBA career to go like this. The FO will appease its franchise player and will go ALL IN agreeing to all Wemby’s demands! Will target a PF/C to help, getting rid of Brahnam and any of Sochan/Keldon/Vassell in the process. Silver will reward the Spurs a top 4 pick, even maybe Cooper Flagg. Will go WCF next year losing to OKC. But will win it all the following year.

[Frenchfred]

I don't think that they'll run with the same team. They have to optimize salaries while Wemby and Castle are on cheap deals. They need to spend the money now and get some decent players. Of course they need to get rid of Vassel and potentially Johnson

[The Truth #6]

Good thoughts. I see CP3 returning because he wants to hoop and the team won't tell him no. I expect minimal to change. But we'll see. They got rid of Zach, which showed skill and sanity, so might be a disconnect/power vacuum between Wright and then Pop on the sidelines and Mitch lost in the middle. Hard to say being on the outside.

[ambchang]

I’m basically giving up until we get an overhaul in coaching, player development and the front office, in that order.

[Ice009]

I absolutely see all of that happening tbh. Also wouldn't shock me if Wemby is forced into retirement and the franchise is sunk.

I don't even want to talk about this at all as I hope he's OK and there is no issues going forward with what happened. Anyway, do you mean because of health issues? Otherwise, Victor will be on another team before he's "forced into retirement."

[J_Paco]

They need shooting, size and defense in that order, IMO.

A cheap, rebounding specialist would be very helpful as well as not playing small line ups so often.

[Robz4000]

I don't even want to talk about this at all as I hope he's OK and there is no issues going forward with what happened. Anyway, do you mean because of health issues? Otherwise, Victor will be on another team before he's "forced into retirement."

Health issues. Hoping it really is just a one-off but you don't around with blood clots tbh.

[DPG21920]

I think there will be significant change this off season.

[J_Paco]

I think there will be significant change this off season.

Yeah, they've hit 'fast-forward' with the Fox trade (and his likely extension) so they need to start going 'all-out.'

I wanted a more gradual rebuild, but Wemby's health issue proves that it's now or never with such a unique (body type) player.

I just don't want them to make two or three 'bad moves' (or moves that don't fully pan out) and end up on the treadmill like New Orleans.

[scott]

I’m afraid that a complete revamp of the staff and the roster is going to need another full year of feeling out. We thought we were a year behind Houston, but it feels like more than that at this point, even with the Fox acquisition.

[Ice009]

Health issues. Hoping it really is just a one-off but you don't around with blood clots tbh.

Yeah, OK, thanks. I hope it is too. I thought you might have also been referring to the team building around him being so bad, that it might take it's toll physically on him, and in turn, shortening his career. That's why I was saying he won't stick around for that if the Spurs can't get it together and put a very good team and coaches around him.

[Atl Spur]

I think there will be significant change this off season.

This^.

[slick'81]

There better be significant changes or its another wasted wemby season

[poopbox]

Logic would tell you that this is the off season you step on the gas and shed the dead weight because Fox didn't come here to play for a worse team than he left, and you are going to no doubt max him. Him and Victor give you two win now players and you don't "rebuild" with two all nba caliber players on your team. This should be the biggest off season in spurs history where they cast off all the dead weight, bring in new players, and cash in some more of their draft capital to trade for maybe another really good player or two. Once you enter "win now" mode draft picks are almost useless, which is why most teams that are trying to win trade their picks, because if some 19 year old is a major player on your team, he is either a generational player like Victor is or your team is not very good. You look at Boston, Denver, Cleveland, New York, Bucks. All teams who are trying to win a le. They all have one thing in common, they traded virtually ever pick they have to build a team they think can compete at the highest level. So what should be happening this year is that the spurs trade Keldon, Devin, and Sochan, who are clearly NOT winning players, for players who are winning players, or who are just better. Getting rid of one of these guys and bringing in say Bruce Brown would be an example.

But...the spurs front office doesn't operate logically. They operate like pussies. Victor fell in their lap, so I can't give them to much credit for that. Fox is only here cause he wants to play with Victor AND because Rich Paul told other teams it didn't matter if they traded for Fox to get his bird rights he would still leave in free agency for the spurs next season. So I can't give Wright to much credit for the Fox trade because Rich Paul scared every other team off and so Wright was able to dictate terms. That is the only time this front office has done anything is when they can dictate terms. When they can't do that they have failed at everything. Drafting players, developing players, trades. And they won't be able to dictate terms in free agency. If they want Naz Reid they are going to have to cash him out because if they won't somebody else will. If they want Bruce Brown it will cost more than they probably want to play because he has proven he can be a big part of a le team so most teams who have any cap space and are trying to win are going to be trying to get him. This has to be the off season the spurs stop being cheap, stop being pussies, stop waiting for stuff to fall in their lap, and make some deals either in free agency or through trades for some real actual good nba players. They haven't done that in 6 years so I will believe it when I see it.

And pop has to go. No nba player wants to play for a 70 something year old coming off a stroke and 6 straight losing seasons. The first thing the Spurs need to do is get an actual nba head coach that nba players would want to or don't mind playing for. Who am I kidding I think it's all but guaranteed Mike Brown is the next coach, which is why Fox is here. If Pop is actually the coach of this team opening night aint no point in watching one game next year whole season will be a disaster.

[PhantomDashCam]

The team desperately needs an iden y.
I’m all for starting both Sochan and Castle next season. It’s not like we’ve been lighting it up from three anyway.

I also want to see some genuine creativity in Defensive sets.
Team should absolutely have been trying out some zone, even something crazy like a 2-1-2 with Wemby as the 1.

Agree though TD with the overall sentiment of the thread.
Lack of improvement and in some ways regression is uncomfortable and dare I say unconscionable.

[cutewizard]

Wemby is back with a vengeance, pissed and hungrier than ever after missing out on DPOY, and the playoffs again! He didn’t plan his NBA career to go like this. The FO will appease its franchise player and will go ALL IN agreeing to all Wemby’s demands! Will target a PF/C to help, getting rid of Brahnam and any of Sochan/Keldon/Vassell in the process. Silver will reward the Spurs a top 4 pick, even maybe Cooper Flagg. Will go WCF next year losing to OKC. But will win it all the following year.

.................................................. ..................

Rooting for this scenario

[cutewizard]

Start the recruitment now >>>>>>>

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[cutewizard]

He has the "gravitas" to be an NBA Head Coach, tbh

[cutewizard]

[Russo21]

Should shut Fox down and get the surgery asap so he's ok for training camp if possible. With the finger bothering him, while he's been with the Spurs he's averaging 19.6ppg (3rd lowest of his career) 42.8FG% (lowest since his rookie season) 26.83PT% (lowest of his career) -5 (worst since his rookie season) plus with the excitement of trading for him you don't want to put a bad taste in people's mouths. I'm not nitpicking, I'm excited to have him here but without Victor the rest of the season I don't see the point in putting off surgery.

It's not like Victor is there for them to grow chemistry together. And a lot of the team likely won't be back next year so no point building chemistry. So I'm definitely an advocate of shutting him down asap.

There is very likely mass changes coming this off-season probably starting from the coach all the way down to the 2 high draft picks and likely a few trades. So I hope he sits it out soon enough. There's just no point