One other consideration when determining drafting/trading/signing starting players is who is going to fulfill the role of big wing defender in the starting lineup. Right now the 3 spots that are likely locked down are Fox-Castle-Wemby. Of the two remaining slots, one of them has to either a) replace Sochan's wing defense while giving you more than he currently does on the offensive end or b) give you enough on offense so that Sochan becomes playable as starter.
Lebron and KD are retiring soon, but big wings that are too big/long/heavy/strong for Castle probably aren't going away anytime soon. Dudes like Tatum, Scottie Barnes, Luka, Franz Wagner, Paolo, and in the future Flagg, Dybantsa, Cam Boozer. I would not be in favor of starting a shooter like McNeeley + Naz Reid together because that lineup is probably getting torched by any big wing especially seeing McNeeley's man defense (which is terrible btw). Ideally Sochan gets played as a big wing (with hopefully a shooting leap) next to a shooting big like Naz Reid, or you get CMB/Fleming for those stronger guys next to someone like McNeeley (or ideally Ace Bailey). Either way this brings more balance to the lineup especially for future playoff runs.
This is also why I am against drafting guys like Newell or Wolf, especially as starters - they don't offer enough shooting to make a defensive specialist playable, but they don't offer enough perimeter defense against big wings either. It's basically forcing your other starter to be both a strong shooter and a high level big wing defender, which is a very hard player type to acquire (basically need a better shooting OG Anunoby)
Also, Cooper Flagg with a "holy " performance today - handles, off the dribble jumpers, creation, dude looked like a bonafide first option offensive superstar tonight. Given age, production and what we've seen, he's probably a top 5 draft prospect in the last 15 years (for me personally at least)
1. Wemby
2. AD
3. Zion
4. Luka
5. Flagg
There's a huge gap between Flagg at 5 and the next tier, which is Paolo/Mobley/Ben Simmons/Cade/, and it's getting wider with every game.
Good call SpursBills I was just thinking today what if Spurs double down and somehow land Fleming AND get Naz Reid
I am cool with either getting Fleming or Naz but not both as getting two guys who are 6’9 just doesn’t make sense. For me it is still McNeely at SF as we need shooting and he can do that and he is not a bad defender and is a good rebounder. You pick him and then add Flemings who can play big PF or small Center then your cooking. After that add a Veteran big someone who could maybe help coach Wemby as CP3 did with Castle.
But it doesn’t matter what players we get if we don’t get the right coach that can put in a new system that can put us on the right path.
Huh? I've never once in my life heard "too much length" as a weakness for a team
I say stuff the bigs corps because what's behind Wemby/Sochan/Barnes? Mamu, Biyombo and Charles Glassey?
And that's with question marks for Wemby who even if he recovers should now necessitate some pretty significant insurance depth around his position(s) to bolster and alleviate demands on him over along haul reg seasons.
On that point, you should get an established backup for Wemby too since it's now high priority. If Wemby needs time, you'd want a guy who knew the league and his go-to skillsets already and not some rookie big who still has a lot to learn. I like getting a rookie big too, possibly. But since Wemby may have durability issues, his bigs backup should be a reliable established player who can get right to work.
But yeah perhaps Naz + Fleming is too much body type and play style redundancy, touché
I just like the spacing and that player mold is pretty much ideal for Spurs current needs so I got kinda "why not both?" lol. Shooting, size not at the expense of decent mobility, rebounding. At least one would seem suitable, I agree.
It's like saying...I've got too much money...or I'm to good lookin... lolHuh? I've never once in my life heard "too much length" as a weakness for a team
Not sure how you are measuring (eg hype leading up to draft, or did hype meet reality), but Cade was definitely seen as a “can’t miss” prospect heading into his draft. And, now that injuries are past him, he is looking to have met the hype too. All that to say he’s closer to your top 5 tier above than the tier with the other names on your list.
Not based on consensus or hype, just roughly how I felt about them at the time. Cade was a great prospect, but he had a few concerns that dropped him down - mainly that he was supposed to be a big primary initiator but he had an AST:TO under 1, he was big but rebounded like a guy much smaller, and I had some athleticism/motor concerns. I thought he was similar to and arguably worse than Mobley, but better than everyone else in his class. Definitely not ‘can’t miss’ for me personally.
I'm really warming to the thought of getting Kasparas with our top pick (for rascal's sake I'll say that I'm talking somewhere after pick 4). Love the handles and shooting, but the most intriguing part is his PnR game. It's very strong with Ivisic and it's not hard to see how it fits with Wemby.
It should be a good battle between your boy Queen vs Wolf tomorrow at 5:30pm CST.
I have not paid too much attention to Tre Johnson, yet, but what I've seen on paper makes wonder if he would be the perfect complement to Sochan, where they have to get one anothers back on the court, and ultimately develop solid 2-way games. ... Something like Fox, Castle, Tre Johnson, Sochan, and Wemby developing into the starting 5. It's small ball, but I'd be interested. Could still draft size with other FRP and have a alternate 1B big starting lineup, and force mismatches.
My insane take for this draft season that will definitely not backfire in the next few years is that Collin Murray-Boyles is a top 5 prospect in this draft class.
I think the ideal pairing for Sochan and any "undersized" big or big wing is actually Ace Bailey, but an Ace Bailey who is well coached, curbs his worst instincts, and plays more like Rashard Lewis/more athletic MPJ and not a homeless man's Tracy McGrady. Putting a Tre-Sochan on the wings leaves you a lot deficient in size and with Wemby's already skinny frame is going to run you into some problems against more physical and athletic teams. Ace theoretically gives you high volume shooting in addition to athleticism and his weak side shot blocking is super useful when you play someone shorter as your other wing.
Spurs have a good chance to win 5 of their next 7 games.
Murray Boyles just dominated Asa Newell.
Also had 35 a few days ago against Arkansas.
He is gonna be good but just not sold on the fit offensively.
Queen is Sengun but slower and even more of a defensive turnstile. Great footwork on offense though.
his shot is questionable, but his defense is elite and a playmaking PF you can use as a DHO hub is the kind of player type that has a great track record in this league. I'm very high on him.
In the past I talked about the synergy of functional athleticism + feel leading to maximizing physical tools and over performing .
There are indicator stats for this.
Functional athleticism - OREB%, STL%, BLK%
Feel: AST%, AST:TO, STL%
Bart query: Underclassmen, 6'6+, 2.5 STL%, 2.5 BLK%, 20 AST%, 5 OREB% since 2008:
Cooper Flagg
Ben Simmons
Collin Murray-Boyles
Ethan Happ
Kyle Anderson
Draymond Green
Ethan Happ is the only bust and he had limited athleticism and shot 46% from FT as a senior. Kyle Anderson might be the least explosive player to ever play in the NBA and his instincts and wingspan allowed him to carve out a career where he's top 5 in his draft class in VORP and top 10 in total win shares.
If I drop the AST% filter to 15, I add Zion, Josh Jackson (headcase), Herb Jones, Otto Porter, and Sorber (very underrated pre-injury, now questionable due to foot injury)
It's not a perfect filter/query, but it is one that has a high hit rate for versatile high-feel defenders and well-rounded players
Yeah I’ve been pretty high on him for most of this season. Agree his defense is going to be good and I do like his post play and playmaking. Playing next to a floor spacing big man like Wemby would help him big time.
Outside of Cooper Flagg, CMB and Rasheer are the only two 4’s i get excited about in the first round. Hopefully the Spurs can get one of them.
Good stuff 👍🏻
That is nice floor for Flagg. Green, Simmons made career in NBA without shooting based on those instincts. Happ is very good in ACB, still cant shoot. Anderson has - unique - athletism.
But Flagg can shoot.
Flagg gets an even bigger bump because he can shoot well, he's a high level run and jump athlete, and he's about 1.5 years (or more) younger than everybody else on this list. He gets slightly dinged because ACC compe ion is trash this year and his numbers do drop significantly against top 100/top 50 compe ion. Still, top 5 prospect in the last 15 years.
CMB's age 18 freshman season just misses the first cut as well (18 AST%).
Spurs and Hawks going to play right out of top 3 draft position.
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