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Usage. If you get enough touches, any player can score 20 points regularly. Also, if you’re regularly putting up shots, you’re more relaxed, and not thinking “OMG, this is one of my 5 shots for the game, it had better go in!”.
3 straight double double for Zollins. Tre Jones also with 2 digit scoring for 3rd time off the bench. They look capable. Could it be the Spurs coaching style?
Usage. If you get enough touches, any player can score 20 points regularly. Also, if you’re regularly putting up shots, you’re more relaxed, and not thinking “OMG, this is one of my 5 shots for the game, it had better go in!”.
Could just be Collins doing exactly what he did before we drafted Wemby… showing up big in meaningless games.
collins was playing well with us up a certain point when mitch started his bs. however he was still getting scored on a lot, despite playing high quality D, contesting vertically and stuff, this usually doesn't last, and it isn't.
Not surprised Donovan is able to coach up players, he always outcoached Pop at least
Unless my memory is ruined Chicago had a pretty good defense by the numbers a couple of years ago with Vuc and DeRozan starting, he's a good coach.
Better for us to have Chicago pass San Antonio in the standings, get up to that 8th spot in the lottery
He is getting more minutes and a more wide open offense.
Who gives a ? We got foxx
I don’t care what he does as long as he shows out in the 9/10 play in game, and sends ATL packing.
Point is to win games aNd compete for playoffs then les. Can’t do that with a system that minimizes the impact of the players we have.
Zach didn’t get usage because he sucked here. His play was absolutely terrible but now in Chicago, which has higher stake games than the spurs, he looks at least half way competent. Yeah sure his rim protection still sucks but if he could do everything hed he an all star. He’s now a competent starter level guy, whereas he wasn’t even g league worthy with the spurs. , I’d be happy if he could play like a decent bench player back when he was here.
My conclusions are:
1) new environment allows him to reset
2) little scouting of him in this new role. He will cool down. But he’s still be a much better player after he cooled down than he was with us
3) the coaching here limited him because there was no system. And this is consistent with almost every player on the spurs. They all showed promise at one point in their careers (or even this season) but then got yanked around and got steadily worse. KJ, Vassell, Tre, zollins, sochan, champaigne. Even Wesley showed some potential but never got anywhere. I left out Malaki because he really showed nothing. All of their progresses looked like the stock market in 2008 (or 2026), it just falls off the bloody cliff. I can see a few players not panning out after peaking early in their careers, but every single one? I find that shocking.
Even wemby isn’t no hitting hit potential so far, he’s just extra terrestrially talented. You guys wait a few years of castle with this coaching staff and lack of system. You will turn against him.
The overanalysing of Zollins’s 3 games is unnecessary, as we’ve already witnessed the same from him in the half a season after Poeltl was traded. He’s not a bad player, he can put some numbers when given an extended opportunity. He’s also not very good, especially next to Wemby. He was overpaid for what he could offer.
But he’s not as bad as he was showing in his last couple of months as a Spur, he was in a funk, just like Keldon was and Vassell is right now. It’s just that there’s mostly black and white in the internets and no shades. Also this forum has been oversaturated by people who love a proper moan.
Totally agree it is an over-analyze on my part, but I guess it is the straw that broke this camel's back. I am getting progressively more annoyed at what is happening with the product out on the floor, and I pretty much attribute it almost entirely on the coaching and developmental staff at this point. I am not going to pretend that Zollins is an $18M/year player or a good player, but I think he does have a role in this league and is not as atrociously bad as he's been the last two years he was with us. His advanced stats were absolutely eye-gougingly bad the last two years and I actually thought it was because he sucked. Maybe he still sucked, but for him to go from a -0.2 BPM to a +0.3 in 6 games with CHI is pretty crazy. His per 36 is actually similar between SAS and CHI, other than the crazy drop in fouls, increase in rebounding, FTs and efficiency. He has been put into a totally different role that he is capable of playing with SAS, and he struggled. I am arguing that PATFO are putting square players in a round role, and they can't adapt, because these are role players. A player like Wemby can thrive in anything, but a player like KJ, Sochan, Vassell, Tre, Zollins, Champaigne, can't. They are role players, they aren't other-worldly talents, so the job of PATFO is either:
1) Design a system around Wemby that can allow these role players to maximize their contributions. How do you allow a player like KJ to go inside and score? How do you allow a player like Sochan to roll to basket more and maximize his rebounding strength? How do you let him set good screens? How do you get Vassell to get to open spots for shots while Wemby draws the attention of 2 or 3 defenders? How do you allow a player like Tre to run an efficient low-error offence and hold down the fort with the second uint? How do you let Champaigne get clean looks out at the 3 point line? How do you let Zollins come in and sub for Wemby and not ask him to be Wemby 0.1, but have a system where he can actually contribute?
2) Design a system around Wemby, evaluate the players. Get rid of the players who do not fit that system, then attain the players who do fit that system either through signings, trades or the draft.
PATFO is now stuck in the middle, doing neither, or both. I don't know, and it's not working. It hasn't been working the last two years with Wemby, and it didn't work for the 4 or 5 years prior to that before Wemby. What is PATFO doing? I don't know, and the scary part is that they don't seem to know.
I am most definitely jumping to conclusions if it's just Zollins, but it isn't. All the young players other than Wemby look like turds out there. It's probably not the hill I should die on with Zollins but it's just one more data point.
PATFO, if anyone is reading this, please pick a lane. I still maintain there is potential with these players, just design a system.
Another solid double-double from him last night
Maybe the fans in Chicago are more supportive of their players and don't wish them to be traded for nothing.
I think it's going to be hard for the Spurs to have a consistently good back up center with the way they've been playing Wemby (before the condition, obviously). You can't come in for two minutes at a time and really get something going. Maybe when Victor comes back, he will have a more traditional minutes allocation, and the Spurs could create a role for a center rather than it being a flex position. That said, Collins was a decent player for most of his time with the Spurs. STers are like chickens who have to peck something to death the moment they see a little blood. They absolutely should continue adding talent when they can, but this is going to take time no matter what. Like it'll take at least another two years. Hopefully, folks won't start trying to push them to make a second trade for a star. The Fox deal was only fine because of the value they gave up. They basically can't make a trade now without cutting into their meat, and they're not close to being ready to do that.
So a player needs support from the fans to do what they get paid millions to do playing a game. Sure.
Good for zollins and good that he is not on the spurs...
even biyombo makes zollins look bad....
Truer words were never spoken. Just wait for a hiccup in Castle’s development curve, and the hate will flow.
Yes, Zach Collins was objectively good this season... Spurs fans are just mean.
TIL consistently being the worst player on the court since the beginning of the season is "a hiccup".
Man who ing cares if he's had a few solid games. He is garbage. We all witnessed the same and it had nothing to do about how he was coached or whatever. Collins getting repeatedly abused on defense while clanking shots on offense consistently is not Mitch or Pops fault. We all watched this dude play and saw him get dominated night in and night out. He had a pretty long leash and never played as well as he did after Spurs traded Jak in 2022/2023. He will eventually revert to sucking ass again. I don't care if he's strung together some solid outings. We watched him flounder for years and it had nothing to do with how he was used. PF, Center, didn't matter, he was consistently outmatched and every time he stepped on the court the other team went on a run. We all witnessed it
Yes, it is apparently SpursTalk members' fault for being meanie-heads.
Anyone who thinks that there was even a 1% chance of Collins being a positive contributor for the Spurs should stop following basketball alltogether.
Not just stop, but get banned from it.
You're on a dinner-date, and the restaurant messed up your food. So you go ballistic at the waiter to point that your date leaves. Then you go to hang out with your boys and complained that "the restaurant ruined your date".
Three things can be true:
1) Collins wasn't holding up, and it was good that he was used as ballast in the trade
2) It's going to be a struggle to find a center who can be consistently effective in numerous short stints rather than two sustained stints like most backups get
3) STers have a habit of ting themselves inside-out whenever they feel like they have a beef. Whether that beef has merit doesn't prevent them from being covered in and viscera.
Crying over a guy that is statpadding on a lottery team with no pressure. Idk care if Chicago is in the play in in the ty ass Eastern conference. Zollins was garbage and should never be in the rotation on any team serious about contending for the playoffs..
I love the "ST are meanies" thought pieces that come up any time someone's bad takes get exposed as bad. Regale us with more analogies please. These are fun.
Three things can be true:
1) People on SpursTalk hold a wide range of opinions, each of them holding equal weight as one another as nothing more than individual opinions
2) People having a different opinion on a player doesn't equate to " ting themselves inside-out"
3) You were wrong about Zach Collins
Maybe we need a Safe Space Forum for certain posters so they can be protected from opinions that challenge them, so that no one has to be encouraged to kill themselves
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