Woj: Zach Collins agrees to 2-year 35 million $ extension

[scott]

.

[jeebus]

There certainly are some Ayres-like takes in here about a ty big man massively overachieving on a dog franchise.

[TD 21]

I think it's going to be hard for the Spurs to have a consistently good back up center with the way they've been playing Wemby (before the condition, obviously). You can't come in for two minutes at a time and really get something going. Maybe when Victor comes back, he will have a more traditional minutes allocation, and the Spurs could create a role for a center rather than it being a flex position. That said, Collins was a decent player for most of his time with the Spurs. STers are like chickens who have to peck something to death the moment they see a little blood. They absolutely should continue adding talent when they can, but this is going to take time no matter what. Like it'll take at least another two years. Hopefully, folks won't start trying to push them to make a second trade for a star. The Fox deal was only fine because of the value they gave up. They basically can't make a trade now without cutting into their meat, and they're not close to being ready to do that.

Given how the league has shifted back to more two-big lineups and how positional size/physicality is their co-biggest issue (shooting), I suspect they'll pursue a C to not only upgrade the non Wembanyama minutes, but also play some alongside him.

That was the intent with Collins anyway; hence the extension he received.

They won't get someone as good as Hartenstein, but the Hartenstein to Holmgren's Wembanyama.

[NASpurs]

Maybe we need a Safe Space Forum for certain posters so they can be protected from opinions that challenge them, so that no one has to be encouraged to kill themselves

Reddit?

[scott]

Reddit?

Folks can just downvote there all the meanie-meanie boo-boo opinions about Dev and Zollins so they never have to see them. A land of true freedom!

[heyheymymy]

I've not watched any Bulls games lol but how much of the impressive stat lines are just the Bulls letting guys do whatever in zero pressure non contending games while SA was asking players to develop skills they currently didn't possess and Zach wasn't up to the challenge

[RC_Drunkford]

Even Bulls fans know that he‘s putting up empty stats

[heyheymymy]

The stat lines are staggering though, despite woefully small sample size at least so far and realistic context

come back Zach /s

[ambchang]

I've not watched any Bulls games lol but how much of the impressive stat lines are just the Bulls letting guys do whatever in zero pressure non contending games while SA was asking players to develop skills they currently didn't possess and Zach wasn't up to the challenge

It’s not like the spurs were contending and had any pressure.

And develop what skills? That’s the part that got me with the spurs. The players were drafted with certain traits and the spurs either design a system that can use those traits or they draft someone else that have the traits to fit the system. The spurs have no particular system and they have players who do not fit a system that doesn’t exist. It’s poor coaching, poor development, and poor team construction.

For the record, I don’t see Zollins as a good player, he’s just no where close to as bad as he showed when on the spurs.

[Knoxxx]

Collins is averaging 0.5 BPG (26 minutes PG) and 24% 3 PT shooting. That type of matador defense and inefficiency leads to video game style bad losses.

[exstatic]

Collins is averaging 0.5 BPG (26 minutes PG) and 24% 3 PT shooting. That type of matador defense and inefficiency leads to video game style bad losses.

His increase in counting stats is just an excuse for posters to hate on PATFO for improper use or development, instead of just increased touches.

[ambchang]

His increase in counting stats is just an excuse for posters to hate on PATFO for improper use or development, instead of just increased touches.

Zollins didn't even have the counting stats when he was with the Spurs, which in terms of compe iveness is pretty much the same as the Bulls. He went from a 4.6/2.8/1.4 guy to a 13.3/8.5/2.6 guy. His shooting went from 46% to 56%. Maybe it's just more minutes, so how about per 36? 14.1/8.6/4.4 to 18.3/11.8/3.6. Faster pace? Per 100 possession he went from 19/11.5/5.9 to 23.8/15.3/4.7. he is shooting better with more attempts, his ORtg went from 119 to 133 (?!@#!@, clearing unsustainable), his DRtg stayed the same more or less from 115 to 114. His true shooting went from 56.6 to 64.5.

The bigger issue isn't how he performed after he left the Spurs, because we all know that he really isn't that great to begin with and this is clearly a short term small sample flash in the pan empty calories type of thing we have all seen multiple times prior. It is how he has significantly regressed since he joined the spurs. Let's look at per 36 stats so that we can even out the minutes because change in personnel:

Pts/Reb/Assts
He went from 15.6/11/4.4 to 18.3/10//4.5 , then 18.3/8.7/4.6 and then plummeted this year to 14.1/8.6/4.4 with the Spurs.

It would be all on Zach if he was the only one, but no, let's look at the first year w Spurs, peak year w Spurs and this year stats of the following young players:
Champagnie - 19/6.9/1.2 for the 15 games he played in 22-23, which was his peak. Dipped in 23-24, then this year went back "up" to 15/5.8/2.
Keldon - 18.4/6.8/1.8 in rookie year, up to 24.2/5.5/3.2 in 22-23, then down to 18.6/6.9/2.3. His FG and TS have steadily dropped through the years as well.
Wemby - 26/12.9/4.7 in rookie year, then his year, partly due to poor play from the blood clots, 26.3/11.9/4. I don't know about you, I expected him to dramatically improve this year.
Vassell - 11.6/5.9/1.9 in rookie year, 21.5/4.5/4.2 in 22-23 and down to 18.8/4.4/3.4. Maybe because of his injury, I don't know. His eFG% dropped back to his soph year levels.
Sochan - 15.2/7.3/3.5. This year is his best year, but I would argue it's because he started strong at the beginning of the year. 16/9.7/3.6. Sochan's month by month play was atrocious in January and February. His best month was October, got hurt in November, and then is basically the same player he was the last two years in 2025. His rebounding fell off a cliff because he is parted at the 3 pt line now (like why?)
Mamu - 16.7/10.5/3.7 to this year 19.6/9.8/2.1. I would say he improved, but practically no minutes.
Wesley - 9.9/4.4/5.3 to 12.3/2.8/7.7 this year. Again, no minutes.
Malaki - 15.6/4.2/2.9 to 16.8/4.4/3.1. Practically zero change in 3 years.
Bassey - 14.1/13.7/3.4 to 15.6/15/1.7. No change, no minutes

Player after player either shows no improvements or are steadily regressing. The only players who somewhat improved were the ones who get no minutes (Mamu and Wesley) so it is more a matter of small sample size than actual improvement.

What is going on? Who has improved on the Spurs in the last few years? I got none. So either:
1) The coaching sucks with no system in place;
2) The player development has serious issues;
3) The players do not fit with each other; or
4) Some combination of the three.

My opinion is 4), with combinations of 1) and 2). I think there is talent we drafted and unlike most people on this board, I still think the Spurs are good in drafting players, if not great. The issue comes from what happens AFTER the draft.

[WaywardTexan]

STers have a habit of ting themselves inside-out whenever they feel like they have a beef. Whether that beef has merit doesn't prevent them from being covered in and viscera.

chinook is back!

[RC_Drunkford]

Our player development staff being ass doesn‘t surprise.
I mean is there anybody who‘s known around the league on it? We‘ve basically had to replace everybody with random people like Jimmy Baron

[jeebus]

5 fouls with 3 points in 12 minutes so far tonight. Yeah, I miss him soooo much.

[Leetonidas]

Fouled out in 12 minutes with 3pts/2reb

[Jordan Jackson]

Fouled out in 12 minutes with 3pts/2reb

Some people around here don’t learn. He is what he is. Just too slow on defense. He’s going to have good games occasionally because it’s a free for all in Chicago.

[ambchang]

Pretty incredible with 6 fouls in 12 mins. More impressive is he was kept in the game to get those fouls.

[Dverde]

I wish Zollins the best. He tried his hardest and always a good teammate. He showed he’s basically a rotation player who wasn’t a good fit for us.

[Bill_Brasky]

Zollins didn't even have the counting stats when he was with the Spurs, which in terms of compe iveness is pretty much the same as the Bulls. He went from a 4.6/2.8/1.4 guy to a 13.3/8.5/2.6 guy. His shooting went from 46% to 56%. Maybe it's just more minutes, so how about per 36? 14.1/8.6/4.4 to 18.3/11.8/3.6. Faster pace? Per 100 possession he went from 19/11.5/5.9 to 23.8/15.3/4.7. he is shooting better with more attempts, his ORtg went from 119 to 133 (?!@#!@, clearing unsustainable), his DRtg stayed the same more or less from 115 to 114. His true shooting went from 56.6 to 64.5.

The bigger issue isn't how he performed after he left the Spurs, because we all know that he really isn't that great to begin with and this is clearly a short term small sample flash in the pan empty calories type of thing we have all seen multiple times prior. It is how he has significantly regressed since he joined the spurs. Let's look at per 36 stats so that we can even out the minutes because change in personnel:

Pts/Reb/Assts
He went from 15.6/11/4.4 to 18.3/10//4.5 , then 18.3/8.7/4.6 and then plummeted this year to 14.1/8.6/4.4 with the Spurs.

It would be all on Zach if he was the only one, but no, let's look at the first year w Spurs, peak year w Spurs and this year stats of the following young players:
Champagnie - 19/6.9/1.2 for the 15 games he played in 22-23, which was his peak. Dipped in 23-24, then this year went back "up" to 15/5.8/2.
Keldon - 18.4/6.8/1.8 in rookie year, up to 24.2/5.5/3.2 in 22-23, then down to 18.6/6.9/2.3. His FG and TS have steadily dropped through the years as well.
Wemby - 26/12.9/4.7 in rookie year, then his year, partly due to poor play from the blood clots, 26.3/11.9/4. I don't know about you, I expected him to dramatically improve this year.
Vassell - 11.6/5.9/1.9 in rookie year, 21.5/4.5/4.2 in 22-23 and down to 18.8/4.4/3.4. Maybe because of his injury, I don't know. His eFG% dropped back to his soph year levels.
Sochan - 15.2/7.3/3.5. This year is his best year, but I would argue it's because he started strong at the beginning of the year. 16/9.7/3.6. Sochan's month by month play was atrocious in January and February. His best month was October, got hurt in November, and then is basically the same player he was the last two years in 2025. His rebounding fell off a cliff because he is parted at the 3 pt line now (like why?)
Mamu - 16.7/10.5/3.7 to this year 19.6/9.8/2.1. I would say he improved, but practically no minutes.
Wesley - 9.9/4.4/5.3 to 12.3/2.8/7.7 this year. Again, no minutes.
Malaki - 15.6/4.2/2.9 to 16.8/4.4/3.1. Practically zero change in 3 years.
Bassey - 14.1/13.7/3.4 to 15.6/15/1.7. No change, no minutes

Player after player either shows no improvements or are steadily regressing. The only players who somewhat improved were the ones who get no minutes (Mamu and Wesley) so it is more a matter of small sample size than actual improvement.

What is going on? Who has improved on the Spurs in the last few years? I got none. So either:
1) The coaching sucks with no system in place;
2) The player development has serious issues;
3) The players do not fit with each other; or
4) Some combination of the three.

My opinion is 4), with combinations of 1) and 2). I think there is talent we drafted and unlike most people on this board, I still think the Spurs are good in drafting players, if not great. The issue comes from what happens AFTER the draft.

Great post. It is very worrying that guys leave here and get better.

[Dex]

Great post. It is very worrying that guys leave here and get better.

Who has left here and gotten definitively better?

The only person I can think of is Derrick White, but he is also a key contributor with a championship level team around him.

Zach Collins - putting up more stats because he is playing more than twice the minutes on a tanking team

Dejounte Murray - he is who we thought he was, regressed and now injured on a tanking team (only All-Star appearance was with the Spurs)

Lonnie Walker - basically out of the league

Luka Samanic - out of the league

Josh Primo - out of the league

Devonte Graham - GLeague

I'm sure I'm missing some people here, but the point is let's not act like players leave the Spurs and suddenly their powers are unlocked.

[jeebus]

What is going on?

Well from the looks of it, you're spazzing out over nothing.

[ambchang]

Well from the looks of it, you're spazzing out over nothing.

Already addressed this before his bad game. See bolded part. We all know zollins isn’t a good player, not an $18m a year player at least. But he was also not as bad as he played with the spurs, and he became progressively worse, which is the opposite of what should happen to a young player.

He’s not the only player too.

Zollins didn't even have the counting stats when he was with the Spurs, which in terms of compe iveness is pretty much the same as the Bulls. He went from a 4.6/2.8/1.4 guy to a 13.3/8.5/2.6 guy. His shooting went from 46% to 56%. Maybe it's just more minutes, so how about per 36? 14.1/8.6/4.4 to 18.3/11.8/3.6. Faster pace? Per 100 possession he went from 19/11.5/5.9 to 23.8/15.3/4.7. he is shooting better with more attempts, his ORtg went from 119 to 133 (?!@#!@, clearing unsustainable), his DRtg stayed the same more or less from 115 to 114. His true shooting went from 56.6 to 64.5.

The bigger issue isn't how he performed after he left the Spurs, because we all know that he really isn't that great to begin with and this is clearly a short term small sample flash in the pan empty calories type of thing we have all seen multiple times prior. It is how he has significantly regressed since he joined the spurs. Let's look at per 36 stats so that we can even out the minutes because change in personnel:

Pts/Reb/Assts
He went from 15.6/11/4.4 to 18.3/10//4.5 , then 18.3/8.7/4.6 and then plummeted this year to 14.1/8.6/4.4 with the Spurs.

It would be all on Zach if he was the only one, but no, let's look at the first year w Spurs, peak year w Spurs and this year stats of the following young players:
Champagnie - 19/6.9/1.2 for the 15 games he played in 22-23, which was his peak. Dipped in 23-24, then this year went back "up" to 15/5.8/2.
Keldon - 18.4/6.8/1.8 in rookie year, up to 24.2/5.5/3.2 in 22-23, then down to 18.6/6.9/2.3. His FG and TS have steadily dropped through the years as well.
Wemby - 26/12.9/4.7 in rookie year, then his year, partly due to poor play from the blood clots, 26.3/11.9/4. I don't know about you, I expected him to dramatically improve this year.
Vassell - 11.6/5.9/1.9 in rookie year, 21.5/4.5/4.2 in 22-23 and down to 18.8/4.4/3.4. Maybe because of his injury, I don't know. His eFG% dropped back to his soph year levels.
Sochan - 15.2/7.3/3.5. This year is his best year, but I would argue it's because he started strong at the beginning of the year. 16/9.7/3.6. Sochan's month by month play was atrocious in January and February. His best month was October, got hurt in November, and then is basically the same player he was the last two years in 2025. His rebounding fell off a cliff because he is parted at the 3 pt line now (like why?)
Mamu - 16.7/10.5/3.7 to this year 19.6/9.8/2.1. I would say he improved, but practically no minutes.
Wesley - 9.9/4.4/5.3 to 12.3/2.8/7.7 this year. Again, no minutes.
Malaki - 15.6/4.2/2.9 to 16.8/4.4/3.1. Practically zero change in 3 years.
Bassey - 14.1/13.7/3.4 to 15.6/15/1.7. No change, no minutes

Player after player either shows no improvements or are steadily regressing. The only players who somewhat improved were the ones who get no minutes (Mamu and Wesley) so it is more a matter of small sample size than actual improvement.

What is going on? Who has improved on the Spurs in the last few years? I got none. So either:
1) The coaching sucks with no system in place;
2) The player development has serious issues;
3) The players do not fit with each other; or
4) Some combination of the three.

My opinion is 4), with combinations of 1) and 2). I think there is talent we drafted and unlike most people on this board, I still think the Spurs are good in drafting players, if not great. The issue comes from what happens AFTER the draft.

[spursparker9]

strong double double 18 pts 15 rebs with four 3s tonight.

What's up with Zollins suddenly becoming a rebounding monster in Chicago? He couldn't grab any board in SA

[scott]

strong double double 18 pts 15 rebs with four 3s tonight.

What's up with Zollins suddenly becoming a rebounding monster in Chicago? He couldn't grab any board in SA

He averaged 16/8 for us after the trade deadline in 2022-23... homie is just one of those classic guys who can pad the stats when the games don't matter.