Have seen an increased degree of chatter from folks stating that we should have gone after Trae Young instead of Swipa, and that "Young is better than Fox"
Let's put this to the test.
First of all, we need to consider that to get Trae, it would have likely cost all of the Atlanta picks.
So say for a moment that you think Trae is a better player (which he isn't and I'll show that below)... would folks here prefer Trae over Fox to the tune of giving up all of the ATL picks? I sure as wouldn't.
But as far as "Trae is better than Fox"... let's see what other opinions and (more importantly) factual data tells us:
Source Fox Rank Young Rank The Ringer Top 100 Players (Updated 2/27) 21 30 CBS Preseason Top 100 Players 27 35 ESPN Preseason Top 100 Players 26 37
So all three of these publications are in agreement that Fox > Young.
What do the advanced stats say?
Stat Fox Young VORP 1.3 0.8 CraftedWARP 4.46 3.2 LEBRON WAR 4.79 4.15 CraftedPlusMinus 1.8 0.6 CraftedOPM 2.1 3.0 CraftedDPM -0.3 -2.4 BPM 0.5 -0.4 OBPM 1.4 2.4 DBPM -0.8 -2.9 DARKO 1.6 1.5 DARKO O-DPM 2.3 3.4 DARKO D-DPM -0.7 -2.0 DRIP 1.8 1.0 O-DRIP 2.3 2.7 D-DRIP -0.5 -1.7 LEBRON 1.2 0.6 O-LEBRON 1.44 2.30 D-LEBRON -0.29 -1.67
Almost every advanced statistical measure points to Fox being a better player. Young is a better offensive player, but by virtue of being one of the the absolute worst defenders in the league (2nd percentile CraftedDPM, 4th percentile D-LEBRON) whereas Fox is more of a middle of the road defender, is a worse overall player than Fox... which aligns with the fact that every publication rates Fox as the better player in their own rankings.
Let's also for a moment consider what things would look like on the court had we traded for Trae instead of Fox and played him the exact same way...
Your starting lineup is CP3/Trae/Vassell/Barnes/Biyombo. We're giving up 140 points per game, and Trae is struggling to play off-guard. We have 2 guys who get relentlessly hunted on D (Young and Vassell) while CP3 is forced to guard bigger SGs. Our rebounding suddenly looks even worse. People are upset because we look like with Trae (which also wouldn't be fair to Trae, who's put in a terrible position).
Fox is a better player than Trae Young, but our team has no spacing and he's forced to play SG. Hopefully the FO does more to address this in the offseason than just moving Castle into the starting lineup. Let's see how Swipa looks next year.
Fox, in addition to needing surgery on a finger, is basically being put in the same position Murray was with the Hawks: Undersized SG/POA defender among starters, neither of which he's suited for.
With the off season to recuperate, Paul off the roster and Sochan likely back to starting (On This Season And Looking Ahead To The Off Season), expect him back to his usual fringe All-Star level next season.
Good info! Thanks!
Nah the comparison isn't trae it's lavine who just shat on him/us
Trae is one of th most overrated players in modern NBA history.
Spurs FO never was really in on Trae... at all.
The best ability is availability. Lavine has only played 70 games or more 3 times in 11 years, and has two seasons of less than 30 games played.
This. Plus Wemby being back and hopefully the Spurs getting a defensive minded 3 & D next season (Barnes is 3 and no D, Keldon is no 3 and no D, Vassell is sometimes 3 and no D, sometimes 3 and sometimes D or no 3 and no D sometimes!).. we should unlock the best version of Fox. The dream pair of new Spurs would be Cam Johnson and Cooper Flagg (with Keldon leaving). But the Spurs must prioritise that player type next season.
Are people really complaining about getting fox over Trae young and zach lavine? Are we serious about this?
People on this forum with pretzel logic anything to hate on PATFO.
Just a coping mechanism because people can't take all the losing anymore.
Fwiw, Trae would probably carry a bad team to more wins than Fox, but if you're to have anything that resembles actual team basketball, Fox is a way better player to have.
Heliocentric players won't win you unless they have a case for the best player in the league.
Trae's defense is also something that just can't work in the playoffs and diminishes a lot of his offensive output.
Is Fox perfect as a player? Obviously not. But he's a great second option for Wemby, it's just that we need Wemby to be healthy and the coaching staff to actually do something useful.
Crofl, Lavine isn't better than Young, let alone Fox. Stop being prisoner of the moment, tbh.
Fox>Trae>Lavine>Dev
Lavine is better than Dev and both players are injury prone. Wish the Spurs had traded Dev for Lavine. As I said in other threads Lavine is the player people think or hope Dev is or will be. Off ball sniper with some ability to get to the hoop, draw fouls, with play making while being below average on defense.
…Who makes $50M a year
Lavine will make about 47M per year over the next two years. Dev will make about 26M over the next four years. Factoring in contract length its pretty debatable which deal you'd rather have. Dev has been pretty bad this season shooting 43% with horrible defense.
If Dev doesn't bounce back next year I'd easily rather have Lavine.
LaVine is also 30 years old and doesn't fit Wemby's timeline as well as Fox does, on top of the his bloated contract. We got Fox for pennies on the dollar too. Anyone complaining about that is kidding themselves. That's a deal you make 100 times out of 100.
Fox is just worlds better defensively than Trae and LaVine. He‘s the best fit for our roster out of those 3
You act like those are the only two choices. Spurs luckily made a better one in Fox.
So basically, you are overreacting over one good game he had against us (without Wemby) and ignoring the rest of his underwhelming career?
The Spurs could plausibly have had both Fox and Lavine this deadline if they were wiling to move Dev is my point.
If Dev doesn't bounce back next season he quickly needs to be seen as neutral value asset at best. A lot of people myself included still give him quite a bit positive value despite his warts as player.
Lavine isn't the type of player Spurs need.
Neither is Devin, but that's besides the point.
Spurs need multiple 6'8+ wings who can shoot the ball and are at least neutral defenders.
Whether it be via draft, free agency or trades, wings are the #1 priority.
Fox/Castle/Wemby core needs wings. Even if you want to keep starting Devin we need wings.
If Jeremy is to start he needs a wing partner who can shoot.
Whole roster needs to be rebuilt outside of Wemby/Fox/Castle and maybe Champ since he's on such a cheap deal for years to come. The rest of the roster is offense versus defense role players like KJ/Dev/Sochan/Mamu/Bassey or just plane suck like Mal and Blake. Spurs got ungodly lucky winning the Wemby lotto or there would be no end in sight right now.
People get enamored by the most common archetype in the league... microwave scoring, no defense off-guard. We have a much rarer, much more valued SG archetype (two way SG) already in our team about to win ROTY, but we're wringing our hands over Zach Lavine?!?
I am not wringing my hands over Lavine I'd prefer him over Dev tho.
Yes of course the Spurs need a bunch of 3&D wings and PF's to round out the big three like every other contender. 3&D role players are like starting pitchers in baseball: you can never have enough.
I'd add Barnes to that list. He isn't a world beater, but he's a solid wing shooter who fits as a 5th option.
Sochan is still developing and has promise... not worth just giving up on but also has earned being considered part of any kind of core.
I appreciate the effort Keldon has brought post ASB in a tank-commander role... but that's all he's good for.
I swear if we run this team back and just add a couple of rookies, I'm going to lose my mind.
Lavine is definitely better than Dev, and I agree with your statement that Lavine is what we hoped Dev would become... but we don't need either one of them. At this point, their USG would just be a detriment to our real Big 3.
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