Bumping this one since it seems that Lauri is staying in Utah.
Post #16 has my list, I'd like someone to make me enthusiastic about our long-term wing situation.
I feel like your list didn't go deep enough on scouting of 12 year olds. 20131 will be here before you know it.Bumping this one since it seems that Lauri is staying in Utah.
Post #16 has my list, I'd like someone to make me enthusiastic about our long-term wing situation.
Better call Karl Malone.
Is his grandson eligible for the 20131 draft?
He likes 12 year olds.
Option A: give up multiple picks + player(s) not named Wembanyama: Brown, Davis, JJJr, Sabonis
Option B: give up Vassell level player + pick: Franz Wagner, Keegan Murray, Zion (might have to add a pick or two)
Option C: give up Sochan level player + pick or 2-3 picks: Aaron Gordon, Herb Jones, MPJ, Naz Reid,
Give up one or two picks: Jaden McDaniels
This is all completely ignoring contracts or age. Just fit as I see it. I also left out #1 options like Tatum or Banchero, just added #2 guys or guys that have proven to accept the role of a Robin like Brown or Davis.
I wish Sidy would demand a trade, but there wouldn’t be any takers.
Just remembered this topic, let's give it a look.
From post #23 and my long analysis.
4th of July, so early offseason.
Well, that didn't work out.
I guess it's too bad for them Cuban isn't in charge anymore.Dallas Mavericks:
Them crumbling isn't out of question in a few years, but Spurs are the last place Cuban would trade Luka to. And at that point we won't have many picks.
PJ Washington is just a solid role player.
We got Fox since then and we're expanding our search to role players, so PJ moves up on the list.
Expiring contract and he might want out of that show. Could probably be acquired by returning the Mavs swap, but would we do it considering they could be really bad by then?
No changes here, MPJ's off the ball game and rebounding would be perfect.Denver Nuggets:
MPJ is already on a max contract and isn't worth it. I actually wouldn't mind him here if Denver decides to get out of cap by trading him.
Gordon isn't what Wemby needs due to his subpar shooting ability.
Denver will probably make moves if they don't get to at least WCF.
Trades happened.Golden State Warriors:
Wiggins is washed already.
Moody is nothing special.
Kuminga looks to be a good player in the making, but he's not a shooter.
We aren't a good trade partner for the Rockets, no chance to get anyone.Houston Rockets:
A team that will be interesting to follow just for their quan y of wings.
Amen isn't someone we'd be interested in due to his lack of shooting ability.
Brooks could be a useful veteran, but is just a subpar 3pt shooter and a great defender.
Whitmore has potential and is a good archetype.
Eason could be a decent role player.
Jabari Smith Jr looks to be the best of the bunch and the most interesting one. No way Spurs could get him.
Looks like nephew isn't done, but yeah.Los Angeles Clippers:
Nephew is done.
DJJ is a solid pick up for them, but just a role player.
Los Angeles Lakers:
Lebron is turning 40.
Hachimura could be a decent rotation option, nothing special.Who knows what happens after the coaching change.Memphis Grizzlies:
Bane would be a great fit, but they're not trading him anytime soon.
JJJ would also be a good fit, but they're not trading him, either.
GG Jackson showed a lot of potential this season, we'll see how he develops.
JJJ hasn't signed an extension yet, but even if he becomes available we wouldn't be able to get him without Castle going the other way.
Bane seems to be a s bag.
It seems that they did trade KAT, who would've thought.Minnesota Timberwolves:
McDaniels is a good 3-D wing in the making.
Naz Reid looks like a perfect non all-star partner for Wemby.
Will be interesting which one they keep after this season, they can't pay and keep everyone. Or they trade KAT.
Cleared space for Naz, he's staying unless he doesn't want to be there.
McDaniels is still an intriguing player for me, he's playing the best basketball of his career.
Averaging 15ppg, 45% 3pt on 3.6 attempts in March. Obviously a hot streak, but his shot looks way better.
And he's an elite defender.
His extension just kicked in, goes from $23M this season up to $30M in 2029. I'd give Timberwolves their swap back if McDaniels is available.
Another good prediction, Murphy took the next step and is probably untradeable. But who knows, it's the Pelicans, idiotic moves happen.New Orleans Pelicans:
Trey Murhpy III looks to be a very good wing in the making, we'll see if he can take the next step and become something more than a role player.
Herb Jones is maybe the best value contract in the league, but he's just a 3-D role player, not someone who moves the needle on a bad team.
Ingram is a ball-stoper, low-effort player who's not suited for winning basketball.
Herb would be a perfect target, but he should also be untradeable.
Ingram is gone.
Nothing of interest here.Oklahoma City Thunder:
Jalen Williams is obviously the player we could've and should've drafted, but we'll never get him.
Dort is a great defender and a decent enough 3pt shooter, good role player.
Chet is a F/C hybrid who will probably be a human version of Wemby.
Maybe he even joins in '25, who knows?Phoenix Suns:
KD is turning 36 this year, maybe we see him take the hardest road in '26 and joins Wemby as a free agent.
Or maybe not, since he's been disgustingly bad and seems to be content with collecting paychecks.Portland Trailblazers:
Jerami Grant would be interesting, but his contract is a big no for our timeline.
Boom, another lucky guess.Sacramento Kings:
Keegan Murray is supposedly not available in Lauri talks. Would be a good player for us.
Harrison Barnes is a solid veteran we should try for if Kings look to dump him and we don't get Markkanen.
That ship has sailed...or has it?Utah Jazz:
Markkanen is obviously the perfect option for so many reasons.
Jalen is unavailable, Hunter is gone.Atlanta Hawks:
Jalen Johnson looks to be a good wing in the making.
Risacher just got drafted, unknown.
Deandre Hunter could be a solid role player option.
Nothing to add.Boston Celtics:
Tatum and Brown are obviously franchise players for them, pointless to talk about.
If they ever become available, they'll be old and on massive contracts.
DFS is gone, Cam is still out there and could be an option this summer.Brooklyn Nets:
Cam Johnson and DFS would be interesting role player options, not worth the asking price, most likely.
Miller unfortunately got injured.Charloette Hornets:
Brandon Miller looks like he's going to be an all-star wing. With Hornets being permanently awful, he might just become available...in like 4 years.
Salaun is an unknown, we'll see how he does.
Miles Bridges is a criminal.
But he still got an extension.Chicago Bulls:
Patrick Williams didn't live up to the expectations.
They did try to fix the issue with Hunter.Cleveland Cavaliers:
Strus is their only wing worth mentioning and he's 6'5.
Okoro is still FA, but his shot is unreliable.
But they're making it work despite Ausar and Holland being unable to shoot.Detroit Pistons:
They're collecting those non-shooting wings like there's no tomorrow.
Nothing to see here.Indiana Pacers:
Siakam is a great player, but not that good of a fit with Wemby.
Mathurin looks to be a good wing in the making, but he's kind of undersized for a wing, better as a guard.
He indeed does.Miami Heat:
Jimmy is old and just causes trouble.
As expected.Milwaukee Bucks:
Giannis might ask after a few more bad seasons, but he'll be well into his 30s and they'll still want a haul.
Middleton is also getting too old.
Who knows what happens if they don't put up a fight in the second round against the Celtics.New York Knicks:
Looks like they got all the elite role-player wings. Not much to say, none will be available.
I really rate OG if he can stay healthy.
I don't expect Thibs to be there next season and they might need to retool.
They're both great, but unavailable and noone on that roster can shoot.Orlando Magic:
Banchero is on his way to s om, no way they're moving him for at least 5 more years.
Wagner also looks to be a great player in the making, but he can't shoot.
I didn't expect him to be this useless.Philadelphia 76ers:
PG is old and not worth the contract they gave him.
They might regret that contract. Good player, but doesn't look like he'll be a superstar.Toronto Raptors:
Barnes has a lot of potential, but that deal is already huge. Their franchise player.
Kuzma got traded.Washington Wizards:
We'll see how Coulibaly and Sarr develop, too early to tell.
Kuzma would be a decent rotation player.
The list of potential 2025 targets, with role players and PF/C hybrids added:
PJ Washington
MPJ
Aldama
McDaniels
Naz Reid
Murphy III
Herb Jones
KD
John Collins
Markkanen
Cam Johnson
Markkanen, Murphy and Herb are unrealistic, but one can hope.
Getting one of the PFs should be the priority, we can figure the nominal SF position with what we already have, but if we don't get someone with phyiscal presence to help Wemby out, we won't improve our rebounding.
You glossed over IND in your list, but I’d add Nesmith and Walker to the list of wings who would be good targets. I don’t know how gettable they are, but they’re both players that I think would fit well.
Jake Laravia also belongs on the list, IMO.
Walker is an interesting player, but would he be an immediate contributor? I don't think he's ready for a starting spot, I was looking at potential starters we could get.
I know you rate Nesmith, he's a good player, but we need someone with actual forward size. Pacers aren't giving up a starter on a really cheap contract.
You think we need him if we get Knueppel and a starter?Jake Laravia also belongs on the list, IMO.
Even if Kelvin and Evan are gone, we'd have Knueppel, Champ and Jeremy off the bench, I'd say we'd need some more creation rather than another shooter.
I'm not that concerned with bench shooters as long as we have Champ on that cheap contract. Yeah, we could upgrade, but bench shooters aren't high on my list of priorities.
Barely anyone on your list has the physical prowess the team sorely needs. There’s like 1-2 guys that can help with rebounding and that’s it. This list is poor. Just getting size for the sake of size is pointless if they’re not really bangers down low, as we’ve seen with Wemby.
And which "banger" forwards who can shoot decently enough would you suggest?
John Collins is probably the best option if that's the archetype you want to play next to Wemby.
PJ Washington would also do well in that role.
8rpg in 32mpg this season after their bigs went down.
We've seen exactly what with Wemby?
1v1 matchups aren't his issue, it's just that he gets crowded because our starting lineup consists of players who offer nothing in terms of paint defense and rebounding.
MPJ isn't considered to be a physical forward, but he'd surely be a massive upgrade over starting Devin at SF.
Barnes at SF would do way better than being matched up with bigger forwards.
Something like Fox/Castle/McDaniels/Washington/Wemby would do fine. Still wouldn't be an elite rebounding team, but would be solid enough.
I'm actually curious too who your list of appropriate bigs next to Wemby is - it sounds like you want someone with
1) Requisite size and physicality inside to provide some rim protection and rebounding
2) High IQ for connective passing
3) Can kind of switch out on the perimeter
4) Has an ok-ish 3 pointer
5) Can thrive in a low-usage role
Off the top of my head, is the list just mid/late-career Al Horford? I guess if we drop the 3 pointer requirement, healthy Rob Williams would be ideal since he provides vertical spacing as a lob threat. What other guys did you have in mind?
I don't limit targets to just starters, because we need more than just starters, IMO.
Nesmith would be a nice fit here as starting SF, but I don't know how willing IND would be willing to give him up (probably not very).
Walker I'd slot in as backup SF/PF. I think he'd be an upgrade over Sochan simply based on fit - but he's not gotten nearly as much run with IND as Sochan has here. That might be because of IND's depth, or it might be because Walker isn't ready... hard to tell.
Most ideal archetype is Bam Adebayo
Obviously, he’ll probably never be available
Onyeka Okongwu is another ideal fit next to Wemby. Also likely not available for a while
I think Washington is too small and doesn’t “man the paint” well enough. Yeah, he rebounds ok but he’s barely a body in there. He grabs more of the opportunistic rebounds and not the “i’m big and strong enough to get this rebound against you”. And, he shoots too many 3’s when the team needs a guy underneath on offense.
Yes, you described the perfect PF next to Wemby. 2 is maybe not as important if everyone else is a good passer. A guy who is just tall enough and thick enough to be a presence against guys who dare try to be physical with him. On offense, not a guy who’s accustomed to being a spot up 3 pt shooter, but a guy who thrives inside, a guy who cleans up the misses, a junkyard dog, able to shove guys inside, sometimes go out for a three but only 2 times a game. Not a twig, a guy who can’t be pushed around, but fast enough to switch out from time to time.
Now that I’m describing the perfect archetype… I need to give Thomas Sorber and Yaxel Lendeborg more of a serious look in this upcoming draft… they seem closest to what I’m describing (aside from maybe CMB)
I actually think the exact same way, but I also prioritize high IQ and the ability to attack, which is why my big board looks the way it does. It's an interesting question in team-building philosophy though -
if you could put the ideal big next to Wemby, and you had to choose between Bam and JJJ, which would you choose? I know your answer, but I think the board would be very split on this
Yeah you know already
JJJ is massively overrated and would be an awful fit next to Wemby. He’d want to occupy the same spaces as Wemby on offense and it would eventually force Wemby out the door. People’s mindsets here are still stuck pre-Wemby where they think a PF with hot shooting from outside is a need— it’s not. We have that already with Wemby. He’s the guy. Now we gotta get our psuedo center (who’s actually a PF in size and versatility on defense).
p.s. JJJ is also soft on defense and rebounding
And how would that work with Castle and Fox in the lineup? Even if the fifth guy is the best shooter in the league, we'd have spacing issues.
We need a Millsap, tbh. Maybe there's one in the second round, who knows.
The Spurs don’t have spacing issues because our PF is a non shooter. The Spurs have spacing issues if our two guards can’t shoot. You won’t find guards in the league who will do the rebounding and physicality inside that a PF would. I believe the “spacing issues” is an overstatement anyway since offense is not the team’s biggest problem, rebounding and defense is. Also, I don’t believe Fox and Castle are terrible shooters. I expect a slight improvement from both next season.
I personally think Walker is an instant starter at the 4.
But those issues aren't helped if they also start a wing who can't shoot.
I don't get this part. What are you referring to? Or what are you thinking I referred to?You won’t find guards in the league who will do the rebounding and physicality inside that a PF would.
I think you can get away with subpar spacing in the regular season, but not in the playoffs.I believe the “spacing issues” is an overstatement anyway since offense is not the team’s biggest problem, rebounding and defense is.
Look at last year's West. OKC, Nuggets, Timberwolves got eliminated because their role players couldn't hit the shots they usually do. Can happen even if those players are good shooters, but we wouldn't be helping ourselves by adding another poor shooter.
We can't have three players who prefer to drive or play inside around Wemby. Look at what happened this year whenever we couldn't hit our shots. It was easy for the opponents to crowd Wemby and significantly lower his shot quality.
Most teams have their longest wing on him, with their center taking advantage in a matchup with a non-shooter. Take that away by adding another shooter and the game gets way easier for Wemby.
I don't even think lack of PFs is what killed us this season, but lack of positional size and boxing out.
Adding a 10rpg PF would help, but wouldn't solve all the ball watching and matchups that can't work.
That's why I got my avatar. CP3 was fine as a point guard and is fine now when Fox got shut down, but two of them were too big of a burden together. Barnes has good size for a SF, but we take that away by playing him at PF.
Same goes for Devin being pushed to SF.
Spurs were always a team that started 5 players with the best fit as a unit, not 5 best players on the roster. If someone has a problem with that, they should be free to go.
With something like Fox/Castle/Barnes/J. Collins/Wemby we'd have positional size and matchups/rebounding wouldn't be as much of an issue.
Then we can hopefully add an elite 3-D role player instead of Barnes next year if it doesn't happen this summer.
After all these trades, Gordon and Randle are the only really physical forwards with size in the Western playoff picture.
We'll see what happens when Chet is fully healthy and how OKC sets it up.
Fox will probably be back to his ~33% average, hopefully Castle can also get close to it.Also, I don’t believe Fox and Castle are terrible shooters. I expect a slight improvement from both next season.
I can't say I've seen enough of him, looking at the stats in 9 games he played 25 or more 7 was the highest number of rebounds he got. 5 or less in 8 other games. Doesn't look ideal in that regard.
CMB has been compared to Milsap A LOT
JJJ's rebounding is almost comically bad, and there are 7 NBA years of evidence plus a disastrous World Cup experience to back it up. The 3pt shooting is nice, but I'd be nervous putting him beside Wemby as the second big.
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