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He was dog until Wemby went out. If you don't fit with Victor you don't fit on this team.
Edit: nevermind, I don't feel that strongly.
He was dog until Wemby went out. If you don't fit with Victor you don't fit on this team.
Glad he improved his trade value down the stretch. Sochan, not so much.
Yeah, Baseline Bum has brought up a good point. Some of these guys were playing terrible with Victor. It's all good and well that they started played well after he went out, but if they can't play well with him, then it's a question of whether or not they fit on this team and/or should be on the team.
Don’t overthink this, the 3 guys that showed out after Fox left were Barnes, Castle, and Keldon. Beyond just the stats, I’m starting to wonder which of my fellow monkeys even watched the Spurs play.
Dude, how much do you have to watch Keldon to realize he's empty calories? He's a no 3, no D, role player that puts up empty stats when the games don't matter.
I'm curious what you are trying to suggest here?
To me, Keldon's performance (which really picked up right before the trade deadline) after the season was effectively over does less to give me confidence that he should be an important part of the team going forward and more to just tell me that his true nature is tank commander who excels in a role that we don't need him to play. Similar with Devin... they are best in heavy usage situations, but they aren't actually good enough to warrant that kind of usage when you're trying to win. Both Devin and Keldon look best when put in a primary scorer role... but they are way down on the pecking order of our roster of who we want being primary scoring options. That's different from Barnes, who was able to play that role for us when Wemby and Fox were out, but also looked very good as the 4th option on offense. If Devin and Keldon could similarly show they can thrive as that 4th/5th option, they'd look like more viable long-term pieces.
Keldon passed the audition. He can come in and get his off the bench in a viable 6th man role. If we bring in two 1st round rookies it will depend a lot who those are as to whether they can supplant Barnes as a starter or KJ as our top bench option anytime soon. KJ is the real deal when it comes to attacking off the dribble against other team’s second units in particular. I’m setting aside any potential trades or free agent veteran acquisitions in that analysis. For now, Keldon is one our 5 or 6 best players if you possibly include Paul in that conversation.
Dude, no. Just. No. This team can only start to compete for real once they get rid of Keldon. How old are you? Have you watched the Duncan years? How can any Spur fan see those years and not realize Keldon isn't winning basketball?
Player that’s great for tanking. Where was this level of play when the Spurs actually needed him to win games? He legit was one of the worst players during the games that mattered.
Good 3rd unit player that can give instant offense in some spurts but the Spurs are paying him to be way more than that.
Learn to think for yourself, stop parroting.
It's all about the role you put players on. Yes, you aren't winning playoff games with Keldon starting or maybe even as a main bench piece; but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a place on the team in the right context.
I'll exaggerate for argument's sake, but I see no reason why Keldon can't be the "15th best player" on a championship-level roster. People tend to narrowly limit their analysis to on-court performance, but basketball is a team sport first and foremost - sometimes you need glue guys and bench pieces like Keldon, in a similar vein that Miami had a lot of use for Udonis Haslem besides the point where he wasn't a positive on-court contributor anymore.
Of course, Keldon himself might believe he's suited for more than a 15th-man role, and I don't doubt the Spurs will open the proverbial door for him to find that opportunity elsewhere, like they did with other players like Boban in the past. But as long as he's happy to stay, hustling hard and being a solid bench piece? I'm hard pressed to find reasons why he has to go, especially "ASAP".
Now, Devin, though........ That's another matter entirely.
if he's not a starter and not a "main bench piece" then he shouldnt be signed for anything more than 6-7 mil per year
Because he's like a Westbrook lite in decision making, and that can cost the Spurs badly in big games. All the games earlier this year while the Spurs were still in the playoff hunt, he was atrocious for the majority of them. Gave Victor no help at all.
I generally agree with you. Every player has their place... I can even make a decent case for Malaki Branham as the 15th man on your roster.
I actually like Keldon. He's fun, energetic, loves being a Spur, loves the city, is a great teammate from everything we can see... all things people should love.
The questions of course, as they are with any player:
1) Are the happy with and willing to accept the role that is best for them?
2) Are you paying them appropriately for that role?
Who knows with #1... but the cat is out of the bag with #2. If you're paying Keldon $17MM/year to be your 8th/9th man (let alone the 15th), you've harmed the team with poor asset allocation. And that's where maybe Keldon no longer has a place here. At times I almost convinced myself that he could be the 6th man going forward... but I think his deficiencies are too great for a playoff team to have him in that role.
Would love to hear your breakdown on Devin though.
I think keldon is a decent player, fantastic player giving his draft position even. I love to watch him bully ball. His enthusiasm is contagious but his contract is bad. I’d even live with $10m per, which is an overpay. But c’est la vie.
I'm not sure how much this affects things, but the other problem with Keldon and especially Vassell getting the contracts that they got is that their contracts are basically looked at as benchmarks for future draftees/young players.
"If Vassell's making 150 million for showing up every 4th game and turning it on when the games don't matter, maybe I deserve 120 million for showing up every 5th game".
I'm all for players getting paid and it's obviously not my money, but the second apron acts as a hard cap which does, in fact, make resources finite.
I actually applaud Houston for the contracts they handed out to Green and Sengun last year - to an outsider Green's contract looks like an overpay, but it's honestly a better contract than Vassell's and it takes a lot of discipline to hold strong against a former #2 overall pick. Sengun could have probably gotten a max extension from a more undisciplined front office, but got extended for a reasonable deal. Those deals will probably make potential team-friendly deals for Eason and/or Jabari more palatable this offseason.
So if we can get marks to trade cam Johnson for Keldon and some 2nd round picks would you
If we can trade Keldon + Branham + 2 SRP for Nikola Vucevic, would you do it ?
Sure, that's something I can get behind - when's his contract running up? I've no idea, he was signed what, 2 years ago already?
And then yes, I'd much rather sign Keldon to a $7m/year contract than have to ship him out "ASAP". Again, his contributions have value in the proper context and role.
Well, there's your issue - what's Keldon doing on the court on a "big game"? The Spurs have had clear talent/roster issues which made playing him there a necessity, but that's not what my point is.
If you're putting your bench energy guys on the court for the closing minutes of a Big Game, that's on the coach, or the GM that built the roster. And this is not Spurs-specific, it's a pretty obvious and league-wide concept. Reminds me of the Albert Einstein quote - "If you judge a fish for its ability to climb a tree..."
Yeah, and I would add that he's a great guy to have at practices and internal scrimmages. This is again something most people overlook since cameras don't show it; but the same way you have your lazy-ass Iverson's "We talkin' 'bout practice!" who don't give a about anything besides their on-court play, you also have your "100% energy all the time" guys like Keldon or Westbrook. And (again in the right context) I'd much, much rather have the latter on my team. It makes everyone adjust to their energy and have to play harder and meaningfully, setting the tone.
Your questions are fair.... Keldon did seem mysteriously down around the trade deadline, very bummed on interviews. Maybe it was just "hot seat nerves" as he's a perfect trade candidate, but I can also see him not staying eternally content as his role diminishes further when the team brings in more promising, talented, and younger players that take away his minutes.
How he takes that is a measure of his professionalism - he's already been paid life-changing money, so it's not a Scottie Pippen situation. Looking at him from the outside, having followed him since he was a rookie on the Austin Toros, I kinda have a hard time imagining him "souring" on the team and his role -- especially if the Spurs start to seriously trend upwards and win games, as they're expected to. "Winning cures all" remains true and applies here; nobody wants to be the 15th man on a tanking squad, of course.
I asked this to Spurraider and ask you too, since you brought it up; how many years does Keldon have left at that salary? I can absolutely see the FO negotiating a low-ball for his next contract. Something of a "we did right by you when we were bad, now it's your turn to sacrifice" kinda thing. Again, we'll see if and how he takes it.... But he's always seemed to value being a Spur, and that has value beyond the dollar amount.
As for Devin? No breakdown to be had - I'm tired of him!I stopped expecting his shots to go in last season, and he frustrates me as a player. As others mention, he's also a very prominent vestige of the tanking seasons, and I'd love to see the Spurs ship him up, open up that role and minutes, and fully "turn the page" there.
The discussion inched towards improvement rather than reactionism. Nobody said Keldon was untouchable in a trade.
Sugar is having some of the better takes, kind of what I was thinking re maybe he does not get as big a salary next time he reups. He's got a few more seasons to determine that. And it's nothing like the (gag) Vassell deal.
Keldon beating the out of people is fun to watch. As sugs also stated, it's about COACHING and the ROLE, which for him the simpler the better. When he can simply come in and be a battering ram, that's what he does best. Currently he is our best bench player too, though Champagnie may be inching into contention on a two-way basis. Since everyone always gripes about KJ's defense.
Two more seasons after this one, $17.5M a year.
Exactly.fully "turn the page" there
The first trade I can think of is that I'd offer him and Jeremy for John Collins, assuming Collins agrees to a fair extension, around 80/4.
Devin will be more difficult to get rid of because his contract just started and no competent GM will rate him highly.
Anyhow, I can't see all three of them staying this summer. Even if we keep the current rotation, someone is the odd man out since Jeremy obviously can't be the backup center.
Even if we're stuck with Devin as the starter, that's still Keldon/Jeremy/Champ as bench wings with two incoming FRPs and we'll obviously target a legit 6'9-6'11 PF in either draft or trade market.
Last edited by LeBowen; 04-17-2025 at 08:29 AM.
My problem with Keldon is that it seems like he doesn't read the defense. He decides what he's going to do and just goes for it. There is no decision-making after his first step. I don't think he would be good in a "Read&React" offense where he has to read the defense and make split second decisions. If we get Jenkins as coach, I hope Keldon gets moved (or he gets taught how to play correctly).
Dude only plays well when it doesn't matter. Do some of yall have amnesia and forget this happening every single year? Ths guy was on the graphic of "worst shooters in the NBA" ffs.
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