2025 NBA Draft

[The Truth #6]

Random Thoughts

1. Incredible luck and karma. Truly blessed.
2. A great start for the Mitch era. (And good that Pop made a decision).
3. No way do you trade Harper.
4. I'm less worried about the Harper fit than say Sochan. If there's concern about shooting in the starting 5, Sochan is the one who needs to improve. And I'm a huge Sochan fan.
5. Very curious about the 14 pick. I'm hoping for Liam or Fleming. Has to be a forward imo. And I don't think they should trade it.

[Knoxxx]

It is an interesting "dilemma" to have the 2 pick when Harper seems to have so much overlap with Castle. One option is to have one of the league's top backcourts with Fox-Harper-Castle. The three of them can play together too.

At pick 14, I have Fleming solidly above McNeely for us now that his 7-5 wingspan is confirmed. Sorber also has great length, though his 260+ weight and foot injury raise some alarms. Fleming at 232 pounds with that length is a legit small ball center/PF.

At the 38 pick, we either get a true backup C, or more shooting at the SG/SF position.

We still have the possibility of getting a free agent C, and of course endless trade possibilities.

Minix still seems like someone to watch as an option to carve out a role on the roster at the SF position.

Edit: I meant to mention that Castle can play the 3 when he is on the floor with Harper/Fox.

Double edit: 35 minutes each for Fox/Castle/Harper means they are only on the floor all 3 together for 9 minutes per game if my math is correct.

[baseline bum]

Dylan Harper might be one of the top five prospects to come out in the last five drafts:

Harper
Flagg
Wemby
Cade
Edwards

No way I am trading him unless we get Giannis

You're forgetting Chet and Banchero.

[Mnky]

Dallas isn't trading flagg. That's like the spurs trading Wemby. It isn't going to happen.

Nicole became the poster child for bad takes but only if the draft wasn't rigged for him..if that's the case, yea they'd definitely ain't trading coop. Not to mention he actually fits great with what they have if they keep those old heads for a couple more years.

The giannis thing is tempting and would be pretty cool to see him play with Wemby but man that's really short sighted to throw away what could be a dynasty building. Once you have three stars, you just build around them. If one of these draft picks is another franchise star, you got to take them and solidify your franchise for the next decade with a new stadium incoming? Hard for an owner not to love the thought of that stability and easy check.

Especially an owner like the spurs have had.

Easier and more enjoyable to make the flashy play, but that draft pick is likely the way to go.

Lots of doors open now though. Teams moving up might make some noise.

[spurraider21]

They should make a trade if it makes sense and not worry about value. Yes, as I've been saying, the Spurs have time to let things play out. They have a young core and young coach. So it's not like they need to make a trade the first sign of trouble. Players can conflict and still look good. That's part of why I was and still am a fan of the Spurs finding a way to get Queen. If they end up in a Harden situation where they end up trading one for decent value while watching him go on to become a star somewhere else, that's fine.

However, I don't actually think they conflict. Castle needs to shoot well. That's it. There's no other offensive growth area that's more important, and if he isn't shooting well with Harper and Fox, he's not shooting well without them. I don't see a case where Harper being able to drive and score means Castle is losing out, because that shouldn't be his focus anyway. If anything, limiting that option may force Castle to grow in a way that he wouldn't if he only had one penetrating guard to share minutes with.

yes, but the degree to which his shooting must improve changes. if he is playing alongside one passable shooter in Fox, but then plus shooters like Kon/Tre in addition to Vassell/Barnes/Wemby... then Castle himself really just needs to be a passable shooter to get by as the team's worst shooter on the floor

but if that formula changes and now its not just Fox, but also Harper who arent great shooters, suddenly there is increased pressure on castle to not just become a "good enough" shooter but actually a good one.

[Chinook]

tbh this situation is giving Mr. Body some redemption

were it not for the Fox trade, you could squint and see the Harper/Castle backcourt working together. but with Fox as a fixture, the picture is a lot more convoluted now

dont get me wrong, its a great problem to have

It makes you wonder how differently the off-season would be without that trade.

The Spurs likely get the eighth slot and thus the second pick anyway, in addition to the 12th pick, some seconds no one cares about and SAS 27 and MIN 31 still in their pocket. If CHI 25 doesn't convey, it's probably even even better. The Spurs would have a path to some cap room in addition to Collins's expiring to go with Barnes's. We might see something like Barnes, Collins, Sochan CHI 26, SAS27 or ATL 27 and MIN 31 for Markkanen.

Then you get:

Harper, Jones (re-signed), Wesley
Vassell, Champagnie, Branham
Castle, Johnson, Minix
Markkanen, Flemming, Mamukelashvili
Wembanyama, Adams, Raynaud

And they'd have all the same picks they do now. It feels better. As it is, maybe the Jazz would be willing to include Markkanen in exchange for the Spurs move back from 2 to 5 (plus some additional minor compensation), and the Spurs can get a big three. But it doesn't feel as simple.

[Knoxxx]

yes, but the degree to which his shooting must improve changes. if he is playing alongside one passable shooter in Fox, but then plus shooters like Kon/Tre in addition to Vassell/Barnes/Wemby... then Castle himself really just needs to be a passable shooter to get by as the team's worst shooter on the floor

but if that formula changes and now its not just Fox, but also Harper who arent great shooters, suddenly there is increased pressure on castle to not just become a "good enough" shooter but actually a good one.

This team is shaping up to shoot 40-50 FTs a game, tbh.

[Chinook]

yes, but the degree to which his shooting must improve changes. if he is playing alongside one passable shooter in Fox, but then plus shooters like Kon/Tre in addition to Vassell/Barnes/Wemby... then Castle himself really just needs to be a passable shooter to get by as the team's worst shooter on the floor

but if that formula changes and now its not just Fox, but also Harper who arent great shooters, suddenly there is increased pressure on castle to not just become a "good enough" shooter but actually a good one.

I don't necessarily agree with that. Unless Castle was being considered for the sixth-man role, he was going to have to learn to be a complimentary player on offense for the Spurs to be a serious team with him getting minutes. Whether he's the third, fourth or fifth option on the floor doesn't really matter. He'd have to be top-two. It's nice that Castle can drive and score. It's nice that he has swagger and a willingness to take star shots. However, the Spurs need him (and Vassell) to be high-level role-players Harper doesn't really change that reality. If anything, he'd just make it clearer what path Castle NEEDS to take by offering a credible alternative to Castle becoming the sixth man.

Spacing is something every player needs to be able to provide in the modern NBA. At some point the Spurs are going to have to draft and develop with a shooting-first plan. Otherwise they end up signing guys like Beli, Neal, Forbes and McDermott to try to buoy their butter-shot rotation.

[Dejounte]

”dynamic, versatile, different type of players…” -Mitch

“highest level talent, highest character… guys have to prove it. There are some really talented players at the top of the draft”


They’re telling us who they might draft…

I wouldn’t count out Edgecombe as the pick tbh

[scottspurs]

Yeah I agree with those saying Mavericks won’t trade Cooper Flagg. He will be a Maverick. We have get over it and hope the Spurs have a game plan for pick 2.

[LeBowen]

Spacing is something every player needs to be able to provide in the modern NBA. At some point the Spurs are going to have to draft and develop with a shooting-first plan. Otherwise they end up signing guys like Beli, Neal, Forbes and McDermott to try to buoy their butter-shot rotation.

Spot on.
As I said the other day, if you look at the playoffs right now, there are 8 teams left and Hartenstein, Gobert, Allen are the the only 3 players that can't shoot the ball even when wide open.

Imo, keeping Harper would mean we have to pivot towards both wings being elite shooters and the idea of Wemby playing with a physical PF/C hybrid goes away.

[spurraider21]

I don't necessarily agree with that. Unless Castle was being considered for the sixth-man role, he was going to have to learn to be a complimentary player on offense for the Spurs to be a serious team with him getting minutes. Whether he's the third, fourth or fifth option on the floor doesn't really matter. He'd have to be top-two. It's nice that Castle can drive and score. It's nice that he has swagger and a willingness to take star shots. However, the Spurs need him (and Vassell) to be high-level role-players Harper doesn't really change that reality. If anything, he'd just make it clearer what path Castle NEEDS to take by offering a credible alternative to Castle becoming the sixth man.

Spacing is something every player needs to be able to provide in the modern NBA. At some point the Spurs are going to have to draft and develop with a shooting-first plan. Otherwise they end up signing guys like Beli, Neal, Forbes and McDermott to try to buoy their butter-shot rotation.

i dont know. i agree that castle needs to be a complementary piece, and that includes shooting. but you can be a josh hart level shooter as a complementary piece and thats fine... when the other shooters on the floor are all quite good. this works for NYK. and if Castle could become a Josh Hart level shooter, thats a solid outcome for him. but is being a Josh Hart level shooter good enough when you have other Josh Hart tier shooters like Fox/Harper on the floor, and Sochan getting minutes as well? it becomes a compounding issue

[vander]

So now the Spurs basically have to trade Fox next summer right? IMO he wasn't going to be worth the max extension he wanted anyways, so that works out fine

[SpursGenius]

I was a big supporter of getting a combination of Queen/Sorber with Fleming/Bryant and take a backup PG (Boogie Fland) in SRP. But having moved up to top 2 (Dylan), it makes sense to get Fleming and a backup big in the SRP. Broome? Raynaud, Goldin??

I would go the Frenchman Barringer with srp after taking Harper and Fleming 2 and 14

[scottspurs]

”dynamic, versatile, different type of players…” -Mitch

“highest level talent, highest character… guys have to prove it. There are some really talented players at the top of the draft”


They’re telling us who they might draft…

I wouldn’t count out Edgecombe as the pick tbh

Interesting! I like that they both said it’s a deep draft because I agree! I think I’m leaning towards team draft and develop and not trading for Giannis but I won’t be upset either way. Now if Luka becomes available you could talk be into that for sure because he fits the timeline better. If the Spurs do draft Dylan Harper which has to be the front runner. The rest of the off-season has to focus on rebounding and shooting!

right now the best shooter and rebounder in the rotation is probably Wemby. If the Spurs can find a way to make Wemby the 2nd best shooter, and 2nd best rebounder on the roster next season they will be a playoff lock assuming health is good.

[scott]

Fox-Castle-Harper-PF-Wemby could theoretically work with a very specific archetype of PF, assuming Castle improves to the same level of shooter as what Fox is and what Harper projects to (which is a 33-35% shooter on 5+ 3PA/gm that opposing teams aren't going to dare to shoot like they do with Sochan)... but that archetype is essentially Lauri/Naz/Santi, with that order of them being the ranking of how they fit that role.

Basically, you need that PF to be a long, rebounding, serious 3P threat.

Before this last season, Lauri was putting up very good rebounding numbers. He still ranks 85th/71st percentile in ORB and DRB Quality as a career 37% 3P shooter (which was closer to 40% before this past season). Problem is his contract. And I don't see how you actually get him without giving up the #2 pick. Not likely to happen.

Naz is the next guy up but gives up a lot on the boards versus Lauri (only ranks 34th and 48th in ORB and DRB quality). Again, 37% 3P shooter. Would MIN do Naz in a S&T for #14 and Devin? Probably not is my guess.

Santi is next... again not the rebounder as Lauri (50th/33rd percentile in ORB/DRB Quality).

In the end, I don't think a trio of Fox/Castle/Harper really works except in small doses all at the same time. But one of them can be a 6MOY type guy. I'd still run it and figure it out later.

With that said... this puts an emphasis on things for me that Devin and Keldon don't fit the team anymore. Sochan as well perhaps but less so (though please Brian do not go give this guy a dumb extension now that you've potentially got Castle and Harper extensions to start planning for).

So many possibilities for the Spurs now.

[Dejounte]

i lost brain cells listening to ace speak

aint no wayyyy this dude getting drafted by the spurs. People can waste their time fantasizing about ace. You can see this a mile away if you know what the spurs value

[skin27]

Looks like flagg isnt happy yhat he is going to the mavs lol

[Guru of Nothing]

This shoulder sockets are located at his hips.

Here is a secret photo I got from UT's medical staff. I don't like Tre because of his skinny legs. No vertical lift.

Is this NIL or NFT?

[LeBowen]

Fox-Castle-Harper-PF-Wemby could theoretically work with a very specific archetype of PF, assuming Castle improves to the same level of shooter as what Fox is and what Harper projects to (which is a 33-35% shooter on 5+ 3PA/gm that opposing teams aren't going to dare to shoot like they do with Sochan)... but that archetype is essentially Lauri/Naz/Santi, with that order of them being the ranking of how they fit that role.

Basically, you need that PF to be a long, rebounding, serious 3P threat.

Before this last season, Lauri was putting up very good rebounding numbers. He still ranks 85th/71st percentile in ORB and DRB Quality as a career 37% 3P shooter (which was closer to 40% before this past season). Problem is his contract. And I don't see how you actually get him without giving up the #2 pick. Not likely to happen.

Naz is the next guy up but gives up a lot on the boards versus Lauri (only ranks 34th and 48th in ORB and DRB quality). Again, 37% 3P shooter. Would MIN do Naz in a S&T for #14 and Devin? Probably not is my guess.

Santi is next... again not the rebounder as Lauri (50th/33rd percentile in ORB/DRB Quality).

In the end, I don't think a trio of Fox/Castle/Harper really works except in small doses all at the same time. But one of them can be a 6MOY type guy. I'd still run it and figure it out later.

With that said... this puts an emphasis on things for me that Devin and Keldon don't fit the team anymore. Sochan as well perhaps but less so (though please Brian do not go give this guy a dumb extension now that you've potentially got Castle and Harper extensions to start planning for).

So many possibilities for the Spurs now.

I'd forget about Naz/Aldama, their teams cleared cap space to extend them.
It's down to John Collins or PJ Washington, imo. I'd rather have Collins because he's bigger and a better 3pt shooter.
Interestingly enough, teams with two best records in the league played with no actual wings, but 3 guards and 2 bigs, we could probably try something similar.

Guard rotation: Fox/Castle/Harper, 96 minutes for them.

Wing rotation is where it gets interesting. Devin doesn't fit, but can at least shoot. I'd get rid of him, but probably won't happen.
Jeremy on the other hand doesn't fit at all. I'd trade him and Keldon for John Collins.

Barnes has to stay as our best shooter and keeping Champ on his contract is a no brainer. I guess Devin manages to survive another summer and we draft the BPA wing at #14.

PG: Fox, Harper
SG: Castle, Harper, Devin
SF: Barnes, Devin, Champ
PF: Collins, Barnes, #14 (get the BPA wing with legit PF size)
C: Wemby, Collins, veteran backup

Seems reasonable enough.

[exstatic]

We can eventually find another 6'7 Castle. A 7ft player like Giannis only comes in a lifetime. If you get a chance to get him in his prime, you do it. Not sure why everyone is hanging on to Castle in this particular situation. Y'all acting like we'll be trading him for a scrub. I don't get it.

27 is the physical prime for a professional athlete. He’s already 4 years past that. No thanks.

[Gandalf]

Imo, keeping Harper would mean we have to pivot towards both wings being elite shooters and the idea of Wemby playing with a physical PF/C hybrid goes away.

Draft Harper, sign-and-trade Vassell for Naz Reid. Maybe get Rasheer at 14.

Wemby
Reid
Harper
Castle
Fox

Either Castle or Harper can play the three through one, as needed.

[Dejounte]

Interesting! I like that they both said it’s a deep draft because I agree! I think I’m leaning towards team draft and develop and not trading for Giannis but I won’t be upset either way. Now if Luka becomes available you could talk be into that for sure because he fits the timeline better. If the Spurs do draft Dylan Harper which has to be the front runner. The rest of the off-season has to focus on rebounding and shooting!

right now the best shooter and rebounder in the rotation is probably Wemby. If the Spurs can find a way to make Wemby the 2nd best shooter, and 2nd best rebounder on the roster next season they will be a playoff lock assuming health is good.

Dynamic, versatile rules out Jase who was one of my favorites

Dynamic, versatile, high character prospects: Harper, VJ, Kon, Kasparas, Demin, Sorber, Fleming, Queen, Saraf, Wolf
Doesn’t meet that criteria: Tre Johnson, Fears, Malauch, Newell, Jase, CMB, McNeeley

Order I would take them in:
1. Harper
2. VJ
3. Kon
4. Sorber
5. Queen
6. Saraf
7. Kasparas
8. Demin
9. Fleming

[Dejounte]

Dylan Harper is half filipino. Game over for John B. He’s about to call him the next Manu in 3…2…1

[scottspurs]

Dynamic, versatile rules out Jase who was one of my favorites

Dynamic, versatile, high character prospects: Harper, VJ, Kon, Kasparas, Demin, Sorber, Fleming, Queen, Saraf, Wolf
Doesn’t meet that criteria: Tre Johnson, Fears, Malauch, Newell, Jase, CMB, McNeeley

Order I would take them in:
1. Harper
2. VJ
3. Kon
4. Sorber
5. Queen
6. Saraf
7. Kasparas
8. Demin
9. Fleming

I would add Cedric Coward and Nique Clifford to the versatile players list but I may be the only one beating the drum for those 2