says who? If the Celtics want you to take on a 30 million dollar deal, they will have to pay teams for it. And the only team that has the space is Brooklyn. They might be able to offload him for a bunch of seconds, but they will have to send assets with it. Be it a swap or whatever.
I'd just draft Fleming for many reasons rather than pay for getting John Collins. Collins seems like not the personality the Spurs typically go for. Always assumed he was sort of a . And he's probably gotten used to losing. Just my uninformed opinion.
Im glad work is making these weeks go by fast.. soon enough it will be draft time finally
keyword uinformed. Ex-Spurs coach Will Hardy loves him. He's a military guy, lived on the Virgin Islands and went to Wake Forest. Does that remind you of anybody? Probably couldn't be a better fit.
He was basically the locker room vet for the Jazz. Also became a fan favorite in Utah."I also think that when it comes down to it, I know John is one of those guys on our team that I know I can count on every night to play really, really hard," Hardy continued. "It's not just about where he gets the ball. It's offensive rebounds, tip-ins, hustling for loose balls-- those plays are huge. So, it's a combination of a bunch of things."
Last edited by RC_Drunkford; 05-22-2025 at 04:41 PM.
You got it!
I think Spurs should play faster too from now on.
We have 3 fast guards with one fast alien.
The #4 needs to able to rebound, run fast breaks and shoots 3s.
Fleming and Raynaud will be good picks.
It really is a crapshoot picking late lottery/middle first. Look at 2020. Only one pick separates a player that we want off the team and a player that is currently all over the news going clutch for his team in the Eastern Conference Finals.
Sign me in please! I would move to have that player!
People exaggerate about IQ or "beautiful" game that everyone should be able to dribble and pass.
They're ignoring the fact that we have 3 or 4 stars. The role player's job are made easier than usual
Plus, what you described above is efficient and beautiful too!
I've never suggested TMIII as our 4.
I suggested a potential lineup of Fox, Castle, TMIII, Herb, Wemby... but it wasn't meant to suggest either TMIII or Herb are a full-time 4. Obviously the lineup needs to be adjusted for matchups. Is this a new concept?
I heard he might have Long Covid?
I'd take a flyer on Tingus if it were essentially free or we were getting compensated for taking his salary. Let him sit for the first half of the season, then come roaring back with a vengeance as he perhaps his value for the next offseason, where maybe we can S&T him.
Are exit interviews available to watch? And is it usually the top players on the team that have them?
Edit: Just saw you posted the Collins one. I had no idea he had Virgin Island connections (did he live there long?) and went to Wake Forest.
wait til you find out that he shot 53/40/85 and averaged better stats than Lauri
i really dont think so, unless they thing KP is dead weight like ben simmons between 2021 and 2024, which is absolutely not the case
I thought this was interesting, this is the pelicans picking @ 7 keep in mind looking at “wildcard” players to draft. Most of our favorite names here…
How do we feel about Egor Demin?
For those interested, he had a nice interview with the Ringer people yesterday:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000709343909
I like him.
As far as Demins go.
Demin is not a terrible option but I’d take Bryant or Fleming ahead of him. Probably McNeeley also, though I like Demin’s measurements better than Liam’s.
Demin was never a target of mine because of range and fit, but If you believe in his 3 point shot you take him in a heartbeat, that combination of size, passing and IQ coupled with shooting is very rare, he could be a star point forward in the making. With that said, if the shot doesn't come along he could e a liability on both ends, a 0-way kind of player. who hurts you. This is where you have to defer to teams judgement, we don't get to see them work out like they do. If he really has shooting upside, he's going to skyrocket and for good reason.
Aah right. A 20 game stretch sample is more important to you than a 5-season record with a 39% 3-pt shooting on 6 attempts a game. Yeah. Very logical.
The Spurs aren't trading Vassell as they need the 3Pt shooting around Wemby. Cam Johnson is an upgrade over both Barnes and Champagnie while it is easier to get a backup like Larry Nance Jr or a similar player on the cheap to push Sochan to improve.Castle's shooting is the key. If he's still at ~30% at the start of the season, I don't think Jeremy can start.
I wouldn't mind him as a SF, my issue is that most people suggesting him want to slot him into that PF position, which just can't work since he's a 4rpg forward.
Ideally, I'd keep both Barnes and Champagnie, while getting another 3-D forward.
No place for Devin or Keldon.
Fox/Harper/Castle three man guard rotation.
One legit forward and probably the #14 pick alongside Barnes, Champ and Jeremy for forward positions. Spurs won't get rid of Jeremy, I personally think he's beyond saving if he doesn't develop a functional jumpshot over the summer.
Wemby and a reliable backup.
That should be enough to have a fully functional roster and make the playoffs. We see what we have then we fix whatever needs fixing for the 26-27 when we should be legit contenders. Healthy Wemby will surely be a top3 MVP candidate in 26-27 season.
Except Porzingis was a key piece in the Celtics' championship run just a season ago and his illness was one of the main reasons apart from Tatum's Achilles injury that derailed the Celtics' championship run this year. Whenever he was on the court, the Celtics' 5-out offense was perhaps the best in the league and near the best ever. That showcases his importance to the still reigning champion and considering the fact the Celtics will be desperate to get under the second apron because of severe penalties in hand, getting someone like him is a very clear possibility.It's smart until he inevitably gets injured.
Porzingis hasn't played 70 games since his rookie year.
Missed exactly 82 games over the past 3 seasons. 75% availability.
Wemby surely won't be under heavy load until it's 100% certain DVT has been dealt with, we need someone reliable for that backup position and not another player who's a huge injury risk.
Healthy Porzingis would be great, I'd even consider playing him and Wemby together, but unfortunately I think that ship has sailed.
If we do go for him by some chance, we'd need another reliable big with clean medical record.
Porzingis, if he is traded for by the Spurs, will be signed for *just* 1 season, 30 odd million $. Not a multi-year contract that makes it risky to sign an injury prone player. Weighed against the risk of his getting injured is also the fact that he will be expected to play backup C to Wemby or spot minutes at PF with him. Thats a manageable risk for just one season and enhances the Spurs lineups dramatically even if he plays just 60 odd games. The Spurs' best chance of getting a serviceable long term backup for Wemby at C can be explored in 2026 while the focus in 2025 can be on getting the shooting and two-way play around him, if KP is the back-up big along with a serviceable rookie like Alex Condon and a veteran like Biyombo. There is no way that the Spurs dont try to convert Keldon (who is not a fit) and Barnes (who is a useful expiring) into something more meaningful and while I like the idea of John Collins as the 4, KP + Cam Johnson is a viable upgrade just because of what their shooting brings and how they fill up voids in the Spurs roster pretty cleanly.
It's not more important, but it's enough of a sample size for a shooter who doesn't do much else.
He's always at around 37% regardless of minutes. The point I was trying to make is that he's good enough to be the 5th option on offense or the first wing off the bench.
At least for current Spurs that have a lot more pressing issues.
We also need size, we can go with the Castle/Vassell SG/SF combo for another year, but it won't work for playoff basketball.The Spurs aren't trading Vassell as they need the 3Pt shooting around Wemby.
I said it during the season, the only way I can see Devin being useful is if he moves to the 6th man role. But then we got the #2 pick and things got even worse for him.
You're missing my point.Cam Johnson is an upgrade over both Barnes and Champagnie while it is easier to get a backup like Larry Nance Jr or a similar player on the cheap to push Sochan to improve.
We don't need a backup like Larry Nance, we need a quality starter at PF.
John Collins, PJ Washington, Aldama, Naz Reid, you get the point.
Cam is an upgrade over Barnes and Champagnie, but still the same archetype, just better than what we have.
The team would play the same, he'd play better defense than Barnes and make more 3s than Champagnie, but we'd still get destroyed on the glass because he's another underwhelming rebounder for a forward.
We don't need to push Sochan to improve, he can't be the focus of the team anymore, but an afterthought. He's had three years and made absolutely no jumpshot improvements in zero pressure environment.
Move him to the end of the rotation, if he develops a jumpshot - great, if he doesn't he can go elsewhere.
We won't have the luxury of playing fundamentally flawed players in this upcoming season, it's time to actually make the playoffs.
Key piece? He missed 12/19 playoff games last season.Except Porzingis was a key piece in the Celtics' championship run just a season ago and
Celtics were 10-2 without him. Should probably say 11-2 because he had no impact in the closeout game against the Mavs.
His only relevant contribution was that great start of G1 in the finals.
We all have players we irrationally like or dislike, but Porzingis is finished as a serious contributor. Can't be relied on.
The needs on this team are so obvious - essentially all of us are saying the same thing just 15 different ways to get there.
DV and KJ have shooting but are too small (and too expensive) and should be traded for different pieces if possible.
Sochan has the size and defense but doesn't rebound and can't shoot. I'd keep him while he's cheap.
Champ is a career 2nd team player at the SG/SF position. Keep him as well.
What's needed (and sooner than later they WILL need to address needs) along w/ the Fox/Castle/Harper/Wemby lineup is either a younger Barnes (replacement) or a bigger stretch 4 who can shoot the 3, defend and rebound.
At that position, I'd prefer trading for Collins. He's checks all the boxes, he's a vet/leader and it seems like his costs wouldn't be too high. Outside of him would be Fleming, then Newell. McNeeley has the shooting but no defense or rebounding. Riley is decent at all but not great at any. Demin is just a taller version of Fox/Castle/Harper.
No to Giannis, Lauri or anyone else (for price reasons).
Yet again, a classic case of quoting stats that hides key information. Porzingis played 57 games in 2023-24 averaging 20 plus points in 30 minutes with nearly 5 3pa at 38%. And healthy EPM on both defense and offense. The Celtics were 6-1 in the playoffs when he played including the Finals and ECF. These are all in all very good stats for a high level starter and an former All Star who is in his last year of his contract. Getting such a player for dirt cheap to play *Backup* to Wemby is an easy decision. Despite being injury and lately illness prone, he is certainly not done and will be a significant C upgrade as a backup and a spot -PF role.
It's irrational to say that such players are done when reality days otherwise.
As regards Sochan, he showed significant improvement this year in all aspects of the game except for 3P shooting (and even there he improved his efficiency at low volume). With a Defensive EPM of 1.4, Sochan showcased a 80-85%ile impact on Defense and his offensive impact was average, not abysmal. He was the Spurs second best rebounder and on ball defender after Wemby.
The Spurs have known to have backed such players and their development unless they have a much better alternative ready. Sochan, for e.g. will be traded only if the Spurs get the opportunity to get someone like Giannis or KD, I can guarantee that despite the irrational wishful thinking in this forum.
And same goes for Vassell. When there is a need to surround Castle and Wemby with 3P Shooting, the Spurs won't jettison Vassell unless again there is a significant improvement there with other players. It is more likely that the Spurs get other 3P shooters to complement Vassell as role players around the Fox-wemby-Harper-Castle core instead of jettisoning Vassell himself. Which is why I feel that a Cam Johnson and a KP plus a decent PF via the MLE is a more likely consequence than some of the pipedreams here.
Which part of this:
was unclear to you?Missed exactly 82 games over the past 3 seasons. 75% availability.
Wemby surely won't be under heavy load until it's 100% certain DVT has been dealt with, we need someone reliable for that backup position and not another player who's a huge injury risk.
Healthy Porzingis would be great, I'd even consider playing him and Wemby together, but unfortunately I think that ship has sailed.
If we do go for him by some chance, we'd need another reliable big with clean medical record.
Yeah, it really does.It's irrational to say that such players are done when reality days otherwise.
The reality in which he was irrelevant during the Celtics championship run and the same reality in which he was of no help during this season's playoff run.
No, he didn't.As regards Sochan, he showed significant improvement this year in all aspects of the game except for 3P shooting (and even there he improved his efficiency at low volume).
Noone is questioning his defense which is the only thing that kept him in the rotation.With a Defensive EPM of 1.4, Sochan showcased a 80-85%ile impact on Defense and his offensive impact was average, not abysmal. He was the Spurs second best rebounder and on ball defender after Wemby.
You can't say he improved on offense when nearly all of his points came from either wide open positions or offensive rebounds, which is his only actually useful skill on offense.
He's got no post moves, his passing is questionable, he can punish mismatches only if the size difference is huge and his good advanced stats on offense are inflated by the fact that he's almost always the 5th option, the player opponents care about the least.
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1631110/shooting
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/163...Regular+Season
Check the assisted points percentage and the level of contest he had for most of his layups.
Yeah, trading assets for a 29 year old role player and getting an injury risk 30 year old is the most likely outcome.And same goes for Vassell. When there is a need to surround Castle and Wemby with 3P Shooting, the Spurs won't jettison Vassell unless again there is a significant improvement there with other players. It is more likely that the Spurs get other 3P shooters to complement Vassell as role players around the Fox-wemby-Harper-Castle core instead of jettisoning Vassell himself. Which is why I feel that a Cam Johnson and a KP plus a decent PF via the MLE is a more likely consequence than some of the pipedreams here.
Only someone who ignores reality would say that Porzingis was irrelevant during the Celtics' championship run. It was Porzingis' addition that lifted the contending Celtics to the championship, made their offense dramatically superior than anyone else and provided the heft over the regular and post-season overall in 2024. His illness in 2025 was one of the key factors in the Celtics' decline. That shows a player who is still valuable. Considering, and I have to reiterate this point despite your refusal to even acknowledge it, he is going to be a backup in the Spurs scheme and that too on an expiring contract for 1 year, it is a risk well worth taking. Rather than trying to get much lower quality Centers to play the 5 behind Wemby. As shown in this season, the Spurs' defense fell off a cliff when Wemby sat because of the lack of a shot blocker. KP can more than fill that position and will clearly be the best backup C in the league.
And yet, defense is half the game and is arguably more important in playoff like situations for a role player. If as you put it, Sochan's offensive input hadn't improved at all, it should have shown in the impact statistics such as EPM and DARKO but which clearly shows improvement compared to previous seasons. Which means that the limited things that he does in his off-ball role, Sochan has shown improvement on offense and unlike you who want to judge only on offense, the Spurs think-tank will rate his defensive contributions appropriately to keep him in the squad (unless of course the option is to get Giannis or KD).Noone is questioning his defense which is the only thing that kept him in the rotation.
You can't say he improved on offense when nearly all of his points came from either wide open positions or offensive rebounds, which is his only actually useful skill on offense.
He's got no post moves, his passing is questionable, he can punish mismatches only if the size difference is huge and his good advanced stats on offense are inflated by the fact that he's almost always the 5th option, the player opponents care about the least.
To ease your comprehension again -Yeah, trading assets for a 29 year old role player and getting an injury risk 30 year old is the most likely outcome.
The 29 year old 3P shooting wizard with a 96%ile offensive rating (Cam Johnson) would be a massive upgrade over Keldon Johnson. The loss of the 14th pick could be overcome with a late FRP with which the Spurs can snag a readymade C to play a squad role backup. Its a no brainer for the Spurs unless the Nets ask for way more for Cam Johnson.
Barnes was useful last season but his defense and rebounding was dramatically poor that he was a liability in that end. Replacing his expiring contract with another expiring contract - KP (and for aforementioned reasons) is an upgrade, despite the risks of getting an oft-injured player as a back-up.
Then there is the MLE (tax payer?) that could be useful to snag another PF back-up. Jake La Ravia would be a great get. But perhaps he will command more than just the MLE. Among other retreads, Larry Nance Jr, Guerschon Yabusele and Trey Lyles could also be had on the cheap rather than going for a choice like John Collins, who I dont think can be had easily without dealing FRPs.
I also believe that Sochan's shooting woes are a thing of the past because of the way he has ironed out his noticeable hitch. And that he is in line for a decent improvement in perimeter shooting. But again, that is for us to see only when the season begins.
I'm just going to comment on one thing. Just because it looks like Jeremy has ironed out his hitch, doesn't mean anything yet. We have to wait and see if he can hit the shots in-game. I hope he can, and if so, I'll be really happy, but yeah, gotta wait and see.
Also, did anyone watch Yabusele much? I just followed his stats and kept watch of him by boxscores, but I really want to know how he did on the defensive end? If he was no good on defense or couldn't hold his own, don't think I want him anymore. I'm also not sure what position he played most? Was it PF/C or PF/SF? I know he can score, but we need good defensive players and rebounders.
His addition made their team game breaking, but even without him they were the best team and won the championship fairly easy.
21-4 in the regular season without Porzingis.
10-2 in the playoffs.
He missed second round and ECF, had that amazing start of G1 against the Mavs, had 12/4/1 in G2 and 5/1/0 in G5.
It was a case of everything going wrong for them.His illness in 2025 was one of the key factors in the Celtics' decline.
Brown played through torn meniscus.
Jrue played through hamstring injury.
Porzingis was a non-factor due to his issues.
Tatum's injury was the last nail in the coffin.
You keep reiterating it even though I said I've got no issues with his ability, but availability.That shows a player who is still valuable.
I'll repeat it one more time.Considering, and I have to reiterate this point despite your refusal to even acknowledge it, he is going to be a backup in the Spurs scheme and that too on an expiring contract for 1 year, it is a risk well worth taking. Rather than trying to get much lower quality Centers to play the 5 behind Wemby. As shown in this season, the Spurs' defense fell off a cliff when Wemby sat because of the lack of a shot blocker. KP can more than fill that position and will clearly be the best backup C in the league.
If we were playing 2k with injuries turned off, it would be a perfect move.
Wemby surely won't be under heavy load until Spurs are 100% sure DVT issues are dealt with.
We need a backup with clean medical record because as you said and as I've said many times in other topics, our team stops being functional as soon as he sits.
Odds of Porzingis being available every time Wemby isn't would be low.
The only way to make that move would be to get another reliable veteran.
Over the past few years one-way role players have been completely eliminated in the playoffs.And yet, defense is half the game and is arguably more important in playoff like situations for a role player.
The only bad defenders are the elite offensive engines.
We don't see 3-no D guys anymore, regardless of them being replaced with worse shooters and the 3pt volume never being higher.
We don't see defensive specialists who are useless on offense, either.
His advanced stats improved because he was put in way better positions compared to the ridiculous experiment of trying to develop him into a ballhandler.Sochan's offensive input hadn't improved at all, it should have shown in the impact statistics such as EPM and DARKO but which clearly shows improvement compared to previous seasons.
The biggest question is if it's worth adapting to Jeremy's lack of spacing?
Our roster will go through major changes between this and the next season's opening night.
Castle was an unknown, now he's a building block.
Fox is the all-star point guard addition.
Harper will be another drive-first point guard.
All three of them would greatly benefit from both wings being able to shoot the ball well.
Is it worth setting back the entire team offensively just because Jeremy is an above average defender?
Collins has a player option, Ainge can't really ask for much.John Collins, who I dont think can be had easily without dealing FRPs.
Either he walks or a S&T happens.
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