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Derrick White just texted.
I'd rather have Harden or Wade than Tatum, tbh.
(I get the point you were trying to make, but it makes it look like those two have a higher ceiling than Flagg.)
Derrick White just texted.
see that's what happens when people don't do their research. In Arizona's rotation were 2 players who were in their 5th (!) year in college, 3 were in their 3rd. That was their starting 5. Meanwhile Carter Bryant was a freshman. The other 2 bench guys were sop res. Bryant was 7th in minutes played, while being the youngest player and often had to guard the opponents best scorers.
Arizona's coach prefers to play vets and a lot of people were asking for Bryant to play more minutes. That should tell you a lot when he's by far the youngest guy in the rotation.
And physical tools will always matter. There's a reason why NBA centers are usually 7 footers instead of people who are 6 feet tall, but have better handles and a jumpshot.
Last edited by RC_Drunkford; 05-25-2025 at 04:04 AM.
Using the exception to make a rule. Chris Duarte called.
With his first 3 year's production, if White had been drafted in the lottery, he would have been considered a bust. As it is,he’s a connector/high level defender, not the All Star or All NBA player that I was referring to at the end of the post, had you read that far.
Sorber - Cousins comparison is one of the most unhinged takes of this draft cycle
I think the interesting debate at 14 is if you still go another big guard (Saraf, Demin) if you've already taken Harper at 2, and those guys are the best on your board.
If you think OKC is the threat for the next decade (I think, a very reasonable take), then a multi ball handler offense that can escape pressure might be the move - Having a bunch of 6'6" creators would allow you to attack the weak help link is interesting (though, obviously you need shooting as well).
I think Essengue and Carter are in the same tier and have the better path to minutes than those two..but if those guys are BPA on the Spurs board, I think a double up can make sense.
Instead of asking why, or even providing your own take on it, you choose to insult and criticize. There’s another path where you disagree and move on as well. This says more about you than the take itself. It’s the kind of low effort response that I should expect by now, tbh.
I do think at some point you HAVE to start thinking about fit and as much as I like Saraf, I don’t think they go for him. It’s not even about Saraf probably being around the same size as our big guard trio— I think he will need the ball to be truly effective. He won’t get many of those chances here. On the other hand, Jase (and Kon) still works for me because he won’t need the ball as much and he’s an incredibly dependable catch and shoot shooter.
I think the max number of high usage guard creators a team should have is three.
Last edited by Dejounte; 05-25-2025 at 07:15 AM.
Georgetowns defensive rating was 90.7 with Thomas Sorber on the court. 5th in NCAA
Georgetowns defensive rating was 111.9 with Sorber off the court. 272nd in NCAA
Georgetowns opp rim fg% with Sorber on the court 48.3%. 2nd in NCAA
Georgetowns opp rim fg% without Sorber on the court 62.4%. 330th in NCAA.
I like Sorber but I expect him to get drafted a pick or two before the Spurs pick of 14.
If aiming high, I like the comparison of Sorber to Al Jefferson.
I don’t know if he is unable to participate in any pre draft drills with teams because of foot injury he may fall a little bit.
An interesting name popped up when comparing Dylan Harper to players of 1980s in AI.
Alvin Robertson
Height/Weight: 6'4", 205 lbs
Why: Known for defense, strength, and versatility, Robertson's frame and rebounding guard game mirror Harper’s physical tools. Harper is a better passer and post-up option; Robertson was elite at steals.
dude, i don’t think there is a worse possible comp than cousins for Sorber unless you are strictly talking combine measurements. They do nothing similarly at all. Boogie was a dominant one on one iso scorer. Face up, post, shooting. Also a top tier passer/playmaker for the position. Great ballhandler.
His weaknesses were motor and defensive effort. Character, at ude. Shares none of this with Sorber from what i can tel
With his size and talent he had legitimate “best player in the nba” potential but got in his own way, like the russell westbrook of centers.
sorber is not an offensive centerpiece, is nothing to write home about as an iso scorer, handler, playmaker, passer. He has a solid midrange shot but the comp ends there offensively
defensively Sorber is a true anchor, good motor and defensive effort/iq
theyre polar oppposites on both sides of the floor. Sorber is on the tiago splitter plane of center. If you wanted to make a boogie comp in this draft you could say Queen is a poor man’s cousins
It’s like saying your McNeeley comp is Iguodala
Last edited by spurraider21; 05-25-2025 at 11:36 AM.
Since 2000, prospects with 7’2’+ wingspans and 75%+ free throw percentage:
Kawhi Leonard
Jalen Williams
De’Andre Hunter
Cedric Coward
“dude, i don’t think there is a worse possible comp than cousins for Sorber unless you are strictly talking combine measurements. They do nothing similarly at all. Boogie was a dominant one on one iso scorer. Face up, post, shooting. Also a top tier passer/playmaker for the position. Great ballhandler.”
dude, i don’t think there is a worse possible comp than cousins for Sorber unless you are strictly talking combine measurements. They do nothing similarly at all. Boogie was a dominant one on one iso scorer. Face up, post, shooting. Also a top tier passer/playmaker for the position. Great ballhandler.
His weaknesses were motor and defensive effort. Character, at ude. Shares none of this with Sorber from what i can tel
With his size and talent he had legitimate “best player in the nba” potential but got in his own way, like the russell westbrook of centers.
sorber is not an offensive centerpiece, is nothing to write home about as an iso scorer, handler, playmaker, passer. He has a solid midrange shot but the comp ends there offensively
defensively Sorber is a true anchor, good motor and defensive effort/iq
theyre polar oppposites on both sides of the floor. Sorber is on the tiago splitter plane of center. If you wanted to make a boogie comp in this draft you could say Queen is a poor man’s cousins
It’s like saying your McNeeley comp is Iguodala
SpursBills said it some pages back. The reality of Sorber is he is not an explosive big, not a super versatile offensive big where he’s consistently handing the ball from the perimeter, doesn’t use pop or size to be a vertical spacer… guess what? All of these things spell out who Cousins was offensively. Cousins did his damage on offense in spite of not having these tools— he was ground bound as Sorber is. Cousins array of moves was diverse, but not enough to where you could say it was technically sound. He tried anything and everything, especially things that was abnormal for him to do. This led to him being inefficient in many areas, and why he never made a leap to become a winning big. So, there are a lot of parts of Cousins’ game, when looked at from the perspective of how Sorber will fare offensively given his limitations, that a comparison can be made. His free throw percentages even mirror Sorber’s. I don’t envision Sorber’s future ever being one where he was spoonfed on offense as Cousins was, so I never believed he would become a 20+ scorer when I made the comparison.
Like, when I compare Kon to Mikal and White— do I think he’ll get to their level, usefulness, and status? No. But the essence of both Mikal and White is that these two guys make winning plays and are almost always at the right place at the right time.
“His weaknesses were motor and defensive effort. Character, at ude. Shares none of this with Sorber from what i can tel”
I made the comparison of Arenas to Jase… do I think Jase has the same psycho tendencies as Arenas? No. I don’t think anyone in this thread ever carry over character flaws when they’re making comps. Why would they? Everyone is their own person.
Cousins was a guy who was playing like he had something to prove all the time. This led to him doing things outside himself, doing things that would occasionally make people say ooh and aaahh. I think Sorber will be a much more muted version of that, a dude with the same ground bound offense who stays completely within himself and doesn’t have the dream to become the best big in the NBA. Sorber’s bag on offense is not so simple that he’s to be compared to offensively-starved guys like Biyombo or Capela. That would be doing Sorber a disservice. He is a tier above that, he has an offensive bag perhaps not to the skill level of a guy like Zach Randolph or Al Jefferson (both guys I looked at before saying Cousins), but something decent.
Sorber, if his potential is realized, is the defensive anchor, screen setting, rebounding force of a backup center the Spurs need. Tiago Splitter/Jakob Poeltl type that the Spurs typically love. My hope is that he's available at 14 or we do a trade to grab him if possible. My ideal here would include Tiago joining the coaching staff and us getting a backup center to mentor him, like Kornet or Adams. Having a strong rim protector on the floor most of the 48 while wielding a 3 guard lineup with defensive upside would be a whole new paradigm for this tanking squad. I'd love to see that. If we could somehow add Raynaud to the mix with Sorber, we'd have an incredible foundation for the future.
This should be my last Board until we pass the deadline to withdraw from the draft. Yaxel Lendeborg is a potential withdraw guy.
Tier 1:
1. Cooper Flagg
Tier 2:
2. Dylan Harper
Tier 3:
3. V.J Edgecombe
4. Ace Bailey
Tier 4:
5. Tre Johnson
6. Jon Knueppel
7. Kasparas Jackucionis
8. Liam McNeely
9. Thomas Sorber
10. Egor Demin
11. Carter Bryant
Tier 5:
12. Jeremiah Fears
13. Noa Essengue
14. Khaman Maluach
15. Rasheer Fleming
16. Derick Queen
17. Jase Richardson
18. Cedric Coward
Tier 6:
19. Will Riley
20. Nolan Traore
21. Ben Saraf
22. Yaxel Lendeborg
23. Maxime Raynaud
Tier 7:
24. Asa Newell
25. Ryan Kalkbrenner
26. Danny Wolf
27. Drake Powell
28. Walter Clayton jr
29. Alex Condon
30. Noah Penda
Remember, on my board look at the tiers as opposed to individual rank. For instance, if we pick Harper at #2 you wouldn't take Fears at 14 over say Fleming even though he's higher.
Last edited by mo7888; 05-25-2025 at 08:13 PM.
I dunno man, I think you are discounting Boogie's physicality and mentality by quite a bit here - yeah, he and Sorber have similar measurements and you may see some similarities in their skillsets, but when you're comparing functional athleticism/physicality markers, Sorber's at 21 dunks/9.5 OREB%/42% FTR compared to Boogie's 53 dunks/19.9 OREB%/73% FTR - I don't think most of that can necessarily be chalked up to just role/opportunity. Meanwhile, I think you're also underselling Sorber's IQ/defense which is levels above Boogie.
I'm not going to lie, I don't see a whole lot in common between the two - it's sort of like comparing Essengue to Tayshaun Prince - like yeah, their body types are similar, they're both pretty skinny with very rudimentary skills at this juncture so you can make that comparison, but my impression is that Essengue has a much more aggressive/attacking mentality offensively. Can you chalk that up to opportunity? I'm not sure - Prince had a .261 FTR all averaged across all 4 years of college, while Essengue is at .76 at age 18 in a pro league. That makes the two fundamentally different types of players to me.
Sorber is far more skilled than Splitter/Poeltl though. I'd compare him to Roy Hibbert/Al Horford. He's a pretty safe bet to be a starting C with offensive upside to be an elite one.
As far as body type, his best comparison is Myles Turner.
Cousins was #2 in his HS class behind only John Wall. Sorber was more like a top-50 kid. He could be great but the perception of talent is not even close to Cousins at the same point.
Idk who Sorber compares to... but I really like him as an option at #14.
I’m not deluded to the key differences for the comps I’ve made for players. Just like in previous posts I’ve made about Harper being far, far away from Harden, I used him anyway. I can write essays on each player on why I chose a specific comp just like the one I did for Sorber. It’s a more nuanced take than it looks, and I did not write that with the intention that the comps are 1:1. The post by Gibbs after yours still thinks I’m comparing them by talent level. If I was to sum it up what I’m doing in the most simplistic form: I’m trying to compare NBA players by looking at their style of play in relation to their physical build and athletic profile— how their body influences the way they move and perform on the court. For example, Tim Duncan started as a power forward, but over time, his body type and natural movement patterns gradually shaped him into more of a center, which is arguably the position he was always destined to play.
Sure, the stats might show that DeMarcus Cousins dunked more than Thomas Sorber, but I don’t think that fully captures who Cousins was as a player. His game wasn’t solely about using physical force to overpower opponents; it was more nuanced and built on a broader skill set.
Player comps are really tough which is why a lot of them appear to be way off. For the most part I think it’s better to just evaluate how good the player is and how he fits and not try to make an apple an orange.
I get that comps can feel off sometimes, but throughout history, everything we do as humans is rooted in imitation. We take pieces of what came before us and reshape them into something new. Those influences eventually show, whether it’s obvious right away or becomes clear over time. When it comes to comps, people are visual by nature. The easiest way to help someone understand what a player might become is to point to something they’ve already seen. It’s not about making an apple an orange, it’s about showing the traits that connect them.
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