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That wasn’t what was said. There’s a difference between supporting your kid, which I agree Ron will do, and becoming a die hard Spurs fan, which I think he won’t do.
Fox looks sadly bound to get traded once Harper starts to show his ceiling with consistency, maybe two seasons from now. He has every right to want to remain a starter (and be paid like one), and the Spurs will probably have no issues giving him a "Dame to Milwaukee" kind of trade destination where he can chase a ring in his late career years.
Considering his wife's background and the way his exit from Sacto went, he's by far the biggest loser from the Spurs' lottery night luck. Sad to think about.
That wasn’t what was said. There’s a difference between supporting your kid, which I agree Ron will do, and becoming a die hard Spurs fan, which I think he won’t do.
I think Fox will get traded,but there no reason to jump the gun. I think you can keep all three for three years, possibly four. That four year point would be Castle being paid, but Harper still on year four of his rookie deal.
It’s different when playing in a championship team. Players in their right mind will be willing to do what it takes to win, including possibly coming off the bench or sacrificing salary, especially if such a team would have a chance to become a dynasty, which I think the Spurs will have high chance if they do the right things. I don’t expect Fox to ask out when that time comes. Nor I would expect Ron Harper to wish his son to be in another team by then. Sr knows what it means to be in a dynasty team, whether your son is the number focus or not. It’s a team effort. And who knows? Dylan could very well be the main focus. He has the potential to do so.
I only know of Kawhi who wished to be out of a championship team. But then again I said, players on their right mind.
This. I don’t understand why people are acting like we need to get rid of Fox right now. Harper is an incredible prospect but it’s not like he’s a can’t-miss one. It might take time for him to develop into the player we expect or he might not ever get there.
, it might sound like blasphemy to some here but I still don’t think it’s a given that Castle becomes a star. He showed amazing flashes as a rookie and I think he at least proved that his floor is a solid NBA role player…but if his jump shot never develops and/or he doesn’t turn into a legitimate elite defender then we’re probably not talking about a star.
I’m not saying this because I predict Harper will bust or Castle won’t take a step forward. Just pointing out that it’s super premature to be trying to ship Fox off (or be upset that we have him) at this point. Even with Fox playing 32-34 mpg there is still room for Castle/Harper to both play 30 mpg or more and have chances to develop. I don’t think having Fox around for the first few years is going to stunt their development or anything.
Dame never wanted to go to the Bucks though. He wanted to go to Miami.
It's more likely that Castle and Harper never become even as good as Fox so I agree not sure why people are in such a rush to get rid of him.
You go and look through the first 40 pages of the Devin thread and people thought this guy was going to be a Klay Thompson type two all star. Hasn't come close to that and now almost everyone wants him gone.
I'm not convinced it'll only be a Spurs decision, but maybe a Fox one, if everything goes according to plan. Castle is clearly poised to be a prominent feature for the team, and so should Harper if he's anywhere close to the hype -- we might find a side of De'Aaron that isn't so thrilled about taking a backseat to the "future". This is usually mitigated by the team starting to win a lot, but there's a lot of malcontent players who want their spotlight (cough, LMA) over anything else.
Honestly, this wasn't a concern for me before the draft, but with the probable Harper addition and the mul ude of Kings fans' stories about Fox, I've become a bit more wary on the subject. He's clearly a player with a "camp" and baggage, and we don't really know what that might turn into. I surely think the Spurs will always prioritize their future over him, and I believe Fox is all too aware of that.
I hope you're right and we can have 3-4 years of such a loaded guard rotation. But I don't know to what point is Fox on board with that.
Yeah, I meant more the "trade to a contender" than his particular destination, since we already know that Fox's only desired place is San Antonio. We'll see what happens, but I don't see the Spurs pulling a "Kawhi to Toronto" on him, quite the opposite, even at the cost of a better return package.
Pretty much my thoughts. Way too early to worry about this too much, but IMO what we'd start seeing -- if Castle and Harper become their best versions...
The team and players recognize a player needs to be pared out to ensure they develop correctly and get their proper touches, spacing, structure.
Fox recognizes the team's backcourt future is theirs. He's pushing into his 30s and starting to think about his last contract(s). Getting bumped by younger players entering their prime isn't the best situation, even if he likes it. He has a last shot of helping run a team while looking ahead for himself.
Then there's a question of trading him on a max with truncated production because he's sharing the ball.
Really the weird things here are his attachment to the city and the fact he was just traded here. But again don't worry about this for now. Get the BPA.
Who cares if Derek Sr worships Phil Jackson. He’s no longer coaching and there’s no coach like him in the NBA.
Yeah, absolutely. As much as Fox has committed to the Spurs and asked to be traded here, the team obviously can't prioritize him over building their backcourt of the next 10+ years.
This is another reason that I'd like to see the Spurs bring Kevin Durant this off-season. Not only for the shooting, the vet experience, and the versatility, but also to "make the most of" these last prime Fox seasons before he starts to show signs of decline. It's a chance to turn the Spurs into a meaningful contender, while having Harper learn the ropes slowly while coming off the bench, possibly get deep playoff experience, and also provide Fox with a sense of "utility" for having moved to San Antonio.
This, in addition to Wemby's potentially uncertain health window after the blood clot.... I'd be calling Phoenix daily if I'm Brian Wright.
I don’t actually ‘care’, just pointing out that he likely will never be a Spurs ‘fan’. I don’t think that matters all that much, since he seems to be the secondary parent, with his mom much more in his ear, and by his own words’his coach’.
He wanted to play with Castle. He wants less responsibility in the back court. He didn't feel he had the help in Sacramento and teams would just focus on him to beat them. He was pretty vocal about players having to play defense to win in this league.
He knows the spurs were the worse team in the NBA without Wemby. He's been outspoken about being on a losing franchise and how he understands the being patient part of the game as the team becomes compe ive.
He doesn't really seem like a guy who will complain about his job being easier, which it will be with 2 dynamic backcourt counterparts.
Not to mention if the spurs make a big move with keldon and vassell, then Harper will be able to run for the 6th man of the year. He would fit perfectly for that as he learns the game.
Its definitely not a problem to have a great backcourt. There's plenty of ball to go around in today's game.
Just listen to the latest KOC podcast, there is definitely an agenda to see Harper elsewhere.
Brooklyn comes up a lot: what would it take for you to make that deal (keeping in mind they have a ton of future assets too)?
I hope you're right..... Insofar as his understanding that he needs the help, even if it leads to a reduced role.
But I've also heard a lot of Kings fans talking about how Fox said all that stuff about wanting help, and sharing the ball, yet played really poorly when Haliburton came into the team, and wasn't a willing distributor/liked sharing the ball-handling duties. Even though it's typical to bad-mouth the star leaving town, I was surprised to see it seemed like a commonly-held view amongst Sacto fans at the time - and certainly shared, on some level, by the Kings FO in order to even green-light the Sabonis trade.
I'm looking forward to next season and seeing the dynamics play out on the court. Winning cures everything, as they say, and hopefully the Spurs can get on with that.
Just my opinion of course...
The Spurs could certainly see it differently, but I don't think the Spurs are in a position to pass up the opportunity to add high end talent to the team (whether via the draft or trade), which makes a trade to BKN really difficult. They have nothing that appeals to us where we are now, and a haul of draft picks (which may never yield an opportunity as good as adding Harper) just doesn't do it for me.
The only trades that have even the slightest bit of appeal to me are ones where we are getting a very promising young player (TMIII, Brandon Miller, maaaaaaaaybe Bilal are the only ones between us and BKN that I'd consider) PLUS their pick (and potentially more) this year. BKN just doesn't have any of that, so they'll need to find another team if they want to talk about number 2, and even then I'm only listening out of courtesy.
Now, if the Spurs scouting department comes back and is less sure about Harper, that certainly changes things... but we don't have that info (and never will) so all we can do is go by what we have and the assumption that Harper is the clear #2 in this draft.
I don't see any real way for BKN to jump up... watching the media twist themselves into pretzels to conduct some mediocre Cam Johnson proposal is funny though.
Hali's rookie year, Fox averaged 25.2/7.2/3.5
In Hali's sop re season (before he got traded), Fox averaged 21.0/5.2/3.8, but then averaged 28.9/6.8/4.3 after the trade to close out the season.
From Hali year 1, to year 2, his assists/gm increased almost commensurately (+2.1) with the decrease in Fox's assists/game (-2.0) so there might be an argument there that the playmaking burden simply shifted rather than "he wasn't a willing distributor".
Thankfully none of us were forced to watch Kings basketball at that time, so we couldn't really say (between us)... but the numbers don't seem to suggest the claim (though perhaps Fox was complaining about it behind the scenes). Interestingly though, the Kings improved pretty significantly after trading Hali and building around the Fox/Sabonis duo. Seems like it was a smart move to move one of Fox/Hali for Sabonis (by Kings standards)
I guess if I had to trade Harper, Brooklyn wouldn't do it. I'd either want Tre Johnson or VJ Edgecombe. And then I'd want a pile on top of that, some future picks.
IMO with Harper you're getting a potential second franchise player. If in the horrible case of Vic no longer being able to play or having a short career, at his best outcome Harper can be the guy.
Fox is 27. just getting into what are the typical prime years for players. he's eligible for a 4 year extension that would have him under contract through has age 32-33 season. he will not be a backup during any of that window. if harper is so good that he simply has to start and particularly at point guard, there will be a trade.
Thanks for the numbers man, I'm a lazy ass but really appreciate sourced thoughts
Indeed the statistical dip might have been due to a shift in responsibilities -- which is why the reports from Kings fans about Fox's changed demeanor and effort put into games during Hali's second season were concerning to me; seemingly a bad reaction to a changed dynamic.
I try not to take salty Kings fans' opinions of Fox too seriously given the context of his exit, but I also don't want to dismiss such a consensus in opinions - and from a hearty fanbase like Sacramento, at that - only because there's bad blood there. I feel like most Spurs fans, however vitriolic in their opinions, were very correct and forewarning about the Kawhi situation back when he forced his way off the team, and having gone through that experience.... I'm wary of dismissing the surprisingly consistent reports from Sacto.
Honestly, I want to watch Fox have a good season next year to rid myself of these bad feelings surrounding the trade. I can buy that he'll be different in San Antonio, but I'm slightly wary of his camp and at ude at the moment.
I think for BKN I’d need 8, Cam, and the 3 unprotected Knicks picks they got.
The Knicks are going to wreck shop in the Eastern Conference for several years. Knicks picks won’t be worth much.
I don’t care about that, and neither do the Spurs. They don’t get caught up in the nba media soap operas and agendas.
Trading down from #2 had better yield some top tier youngish talent (TM3 types), or a legit star (Giannis types). If all it collects is a solid role player (Cam Johnson types) and some future 1st rounders then absolutely pass on those trades. Personally, I hope the Spurs stay out of the collecting future 1sts business because while I agree they are great assets to have in the warchest, when it comes time to actually collect everything about it sucks.
Watching ATL scrape and claw for every single win they could muster against the dog eastern conference with their only real motivation being to screw our draft pick up was agonizing. When you have other teams 1st rounders you know they are going to go all out (because why wouldn't they?) and feast on other teams actually actively tanking. If ATL had their own pick this year we all know it would've been a top 6 or so pick instead of the 14 that we actually got kind of lucky to end up with.
Brooklyn would have to find a way to get Giannis to San Antonio before I even pick up the phone. Giannis is the only person reasonably available that I'd have to seriously think about if offered for Harper. Durant, Jaylen Brown, Booker no thanks, no thanks. Nets have absolutely nothing I want if I'm the Spurs.
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