The Irregular Trebuchet of Stephon Castle

[exstatic]

4.50 mark, he is just missing. This is practice. Nba players shouldn't be missing. I'm worried.

They’re working on his footwork. Also, they are purposefully throwing his rhythm off by making him wait until he hears ‘shot’.

[Sugus]

I agree with most of what you said. I'm not sure if you've shot the ball or are a good shooter yourself, but I can tell you for sure, making jump shots in an empty gym is no big deal if you're a halfway decent shooter. I'm sure people that live in the US that get to go to actual NBA games, you'll see guys hitting shots during warmups that are considered poor shooters in games. Having said that, shooting in games is a whole different thing completely when you have a defender zeroing in on you, you have to get that shot off much quicker.

Yes, I played ball until college, though I'd be lying if I called myself a good shooter was more of a playmaker. But yes, I do agree - my point specifically revolved around people cherry-picking a couple of consecutive misses within a 20-minute shooting workout video. That's why I said, are they supposed to make every shot? That's insane. There's plenty made shots by Castle on the video, this is not a Sochan or Ben Simmons situation.

And feel for shooting does play a big part. If Jeremy was making shots with his form and able to get them off during games and make them at a decent percentage, I'd be OK with that. As an example, Haliburton doesn't have a picture perfect form, but he can get the shots off and make them during games. I wouldn't mess with his shot and tell him he needs to change it. You actually can have a picture perfect form/shot and still miss if you don't have any feel for shooting at all. Doesn't matter how many repe ions you put in, you gotta at least have a little bit of a feel for shooting to be a good shooter. Reggie Miller didn't have an orthodox form and neither did I, but I was still making shots as I just have always had a natural feel for shooting the ball. I didn't like my form as I couldn't get my shot off quick enough, so I tweaked it to be more mechanically sound. It doesn't really matter to me about the form as much as if you can get the shot off (I've obviously never played against NBA level athletes) and make it. You don't need a picture perfect form. I learned that watching Reggie Miller when I was very young (He was at the tail end of his career when I started watching) as he was the first great shooter I watched when I first got into the NBA. Dell Curry was another guy I liked shooting wise.

I absolutely agree - don't remind me of the Haliburton/Vassell draft SMH - but that's why I want to double-down, Castle makes plenty of shots in practice. I think perspective is being lost here. As a rookie, he's already shown the two most important aspects of shooting prowess IMO, which is 1) a willingness to shoot 3's in the flow of the offense, and 2) the ability to vary his shooting spots as the situation demands. His percentages were sub-par, sure, but perfectly within the realms of "hopeful". At no point did I watch Castle during the season for a full game and came out thinking "damn, this kid has no shooting touch!".

Indeed you don't need a picture-perfect form as countless players have shown before. However, I don't think that's a reason to extrapolate concern over a player who does show good mechanics, but is still working on consistency and producing results - they're all parts of the process.

As you'll have realized yourself, also, "shooting touch" isn't everything either. If your form is inconsistent you will run into issues in real games. I could never develop a consistent 3pt shot that was as good as my shot from within the arc, for example, and it certainly gave me pause in games, even subconsciously. So I'm not the least worried to see Castle working with a renowned shooting coach who's drilling the fundamentals on him, I wish I'd had access to that coaching back then, myself!

Anyway, I've got to watch the video. It's probably no big deal at all. He probably missed a few as he was learning the shot/move, maybe was a bit fatigued too. Might have even made the majority and the video shows a few misses.

Ah sorry, I thought you'd seen the video that's what I was referencing. Indeed, I think this is the typical off-season, over-analyzing due to boredom. He was honestly much better than originally thought as a rookie, and to see him make shooting a core focus of his summer workout is nothing but exciting.

[Ice009]

Yes, I played ball until college, though I'd be lying if I called myself a good shooter was more of a playmaker. But yes, I do agree - my point specifically revolved around people cherry-picking a couple of consecutive misses within a 20-minute shooting workout video. That's why I said, are they supposed to make every shot? That's insane. There's plenty made shots by Castle on the video, this is not a Sochan or Ben Simmons situation.

Yeah, that's cool. I should have said, doesn't matter what level you played (I was meant to write that). You've played, so you definitely have an idea of what it's like shooting the ball. And yeah, you're right. I started watching the video and I don't see anything wrong with the misses. Video or no video, doesn't mean you make them all in a workout video.

I absolutely agree - don't remind me of the Haliburton/Vassell draft SMH - but that's why I want to double-down, Castle makes plenty of shots in practice. I think perspective is being lost here. As a rookie, he's already shown the two most important aspects of shooting prowess IMO, which is 1) a willingness to shoot 3's in the flow of the offense, and 2) the ability to vary his shooting spots as the situation demands. His percentages were sub-par, sure, but perfectly within the realms of "hopeful". At no point did I watch Castle during the season for a full game and came out thinking "damn, this kid has no shooting touch!".

Yep, 100% this is what gives me confidence in him. He's willing to take the shot in the flow of the offense. That's a good sign. Stephen Jackson, for example, in the 2003 playoffs, he was willing to take and make big shots. That's not something you can teach. It comes down to confidence and working on your shot to the point you have the confidence to take that shot. You won't make it if you don't have the confidence even if you've worked on it for hours and hours. Steph already showed us some of that in his rookie year. Jeremy is an example of the opposite. He doesn't seem to have the confidence and passes those same shots up. Steph is already way, way ahead in that regard.

Indeed you don't need a picture-perfect form as countless players have shown before. However, I don't think that's a reason to extrapolate concern over a player who does show good mechanics, but is still working on consistency and producing results - they're all parts of the process.

Fair point. I won't disagree with that at all.

As you'll have realized yourself, also, "shooting touch" isn't everything either. If your form is inconsistent you will run into issues in real games. I could never develop a consistent 3pt shot that was as good as my shot from within the arc, for example, and it certainly gave me pause in games, even subconsciously. So I'm not the least worried to see Castle working with a renowned shooting coach who's drilling the fundamentals on him, I wish I'd had access to that coaching back then, myself!

Agree with that too. You definitely will run into issues in-game if your form isn't at least consistent. I guess the easiest way to keep the form consistent is to have a more orthodox shot/mechanically sound shot, and a lot of repe ion to go with it. Kawhi would be a great example of that.
I too would have loved to have shooting coach. Not sure how many coaches teach this, but I learned something from Steph Curry about shooting in games from an interview he did. He said that he practices his shot sped up faster than when he shoots in games, so when he's shooting in a game, it's actually easier as he he's shooting a bit slower than the speed he practices at. That was one of my issues, I practiced it slower than in-game where I sped up a bit, so I had trouble getting it off when I had no space or a defender was right there/closing in.

Ah sorry, I thought you'd seen the video that's what I was referencing. Indeed, I think this is the typical off-season, over-analyzing due to boredom. He was honestly much better than originally thought as a rookie, and to see him make shooting a core focus of his summer workout is nothing but exciting.

I watched a little bit just before this reply, no big deal at all from what I can see so far.

[cutewizard]

Thanks for the inputs guys

Hope our fearless Prince improves

He has time

[exstatic]

Castle was nearly a Brent Barry style set shooter. They’re working on his elevation and balance. That’s the part of the video where he’s standing on one foot, and as the pass is on the way,he hops, lands on two feet, and shoots. That is teaching him about a balanced two foot base.

[Ice009]

Castle was nearly a Brent Barry style set shooter. They’re working on his elevation and balance. That’s the part of the video where he’s standing on one foot, and as the pass is on the way,he hops, lands on two feet, and shoots. That is teaching him about a balanced two foot base.

Very true. I hadn't really thought about Brent as never loved his shooting style. Having said that, Brent was a darn good shooter, so I wouldn't say his style sucked or anything. Pretty good observation/comparison, though. I can definitely see some of it now that you've brought it up.

I guess you would call that a stationary shooter. Didn't Larry Bird also have a similar style shot from 3 point range where he barely jumped?

[ace3g]

[spurraider21]

The concern with his shot is that his form looks fine but the results are bad, so how do you fix it?

im no shot doc

all the movement seems smooth, especially upper body. but he doesnt really seem to get his legs into his shot. basically no lift

[RC_Drunkford]

[exstatic]

im no shot doc

all the movement seems smooth, especially upper body. but he doesnt really seem to get his legs into his shot. basically no lift

That’s why he shoots poorly on the move. In those workout vids, there is a series of shots where he starts on one leg, then hops into a balanced two foot stance. Probably designed to fix the lack of lift.

[cutewizard]

[buttsR4rebounding]

The concern with his shot is that his form looks fine but the results are bad, so how do you fix it?

He’s just out of shape.

[Ni-G]

He's better at foul baiting then foul merchant SGA already. But I agree with video, it's probably because of weaker defenders covering him and failing.

[cutewizard]

sky is the limit for a cager with will

and his is fierce!

[exstatic]

He's better at foul baiting then foul merchant SGA already. But I agree with video, it's probably because of weaker defenders covering him and failing.

He was starting the last 25 games or so after Wemby and Fox were both out, with starter level defenders on him. Didn’t seem to affect him adversely.

[Ice009]

He was starting the last 25 games or so after Wemby and Fox were both out, with starter level defenders on him. Didn’t seem to affect him adversely.

He did it against anyone as far as I remember. Didn't matter if it was bench guys or starters. Of course, it's a small sample size against starters, but in certain games when he wanted to (I think the Charlotte game was one where both Victor and Fox played, they weren't playing well [Victor looked super fatigued] and Castle took over in the second half driving it to the RIM with force against whoever was on him. That was one of the more aggressive games I remember seeing from him).

[sfernald]

My hope for castle is pretty simple. I want him to gradually become a Dort-like defender. And he’s at about 53% ts his rookie season. Efficiency doesn’t usually happen for rookies. But I would like to see him up that 2-3 points a year until he is over 60%. I think that’s pretty easy if he keeps working on his shot selection, free throws, midrange and obviously most importantly his three point shot. But improvements to all of it will allow him to make that gradually ascension to the efficiency expected of a true super star.

[Mr. Body]

He's better at foul baiting then foul merchant SGA already. But I agree with video, it's probably because of weaker defenders covering him and failing.

His foul rate will decline some, but I do feel like he earns a lot of his fouls. SGA's fouls are almost uniformly bull ticky-tack touch fouls. God he's unbearable to watch.

[spursistan]

Not trading a big guard who is going to live at the line like this. Free points, tbh.

[cutewizard]

[Dejounte]

Cue the michael scott gif

Why
No
No
No
Whyyyyyy

Maybe im too ing old for this
But why is castle going on these loser ass streams

My respect for castle has gone down due to this

Damn

[CGD]

Cue the michael scott gif

Why
No
No
No
Whyyyyyy

Maybe im too ing old for this
But why is castle going on these loser ass streams

My respect for castle has gone down due to this

Damn

I have no idea what this means. The youngs are on some other stuff.

But it’s all good. Hopefully yall still go out, drink a little too much from time to time, and get laid occasionally.

[RC_Drunkford]

[RC_Drunkford]

[mystargtr34]

Jesus Christ listening to that guy next to Steph for 1 minute gave me a headache.