Spurs trade ideas

[Marcus Bryant]

Let Castle, Fox, Harper, and Wemby play together for a couple seasons first.

Here’s where SA is in a great position there isn’t that pressure to win now. Nothing better than most of this elite talent on rookie contracts.

[scott]

Agreed Scott. While I mostly agree with the general point Chinook is trying to make, I think Castle/Harper will already be forced to take smaller roles this year due to Wemby/Fox almost certainly being the top 2 options. I was on board with getting KD but I don’t think we need another main scoring option for the sake of Castle/Harper’s development.

It was only an issue last year because Wemby and Fox both got injured. Castle was thrown into a larger role that probably wasn’t ideal. Some might argue it was a good learning experience for him but I’d disagree. 2 of the most important things Castle can do are learn to be a respectable spot-up shooter and defend at an elite level…and it’s hard to do those things when you’re thrown into the role of being the primary option on offense.

Yep I agree... though I will say I do think the post Wemby/Fox injury experience for Castle was probably a good learning experience because we weren't trying to win (or weren't going to win) anyway so might as well give him as much run as possible. So, the Castle experience to close the end of the year last season wasn't good for winning basketball, but it was probably good for Castle. But now that Fox and Wemby are back, it's time for him to go back to playing whatever role is best for the team.

[kobyz]

I can see s&t for Naz involving Vassell

[RC_Drunkford]

I think this will somewhat police itself, with Wemby and Fox (and possibly Harper) standing in Castle's way from ascending to pseudo-star status. I think by simple virtue of the pecking order of our team, it's going to force Castle to develop the things that you (and we all) feel he needs to. Or at least I hope so. If not, then it will be because he has Diva mentality and he'll just go down as "what could have been" - but I'd bet against that based on what we've seen so far.

There is no doubt Castle has areas he needs to improve on (almost all second year players do), but there's also no reason to be lower on Castle than any other second (or even third) year player. Like I said to mo, IMO there is reason to be as excited about Castle's promise as any other player drafted in the last 3 years save for the very elite players (which I would call Wemby, Amen, Paolo and probably JDub. Brandon Miller and Chet are guys in the next tier who you can make a reasonable case for having more promise than Castle. But there is no one else in the last 3 drafts that I'd take over Steph).



I can see the case for Castle, but I disagree that Harper, who has yet to even be drafted, needs to "take a step back". He's about to be the #2 pick and allegedly he's been the #1 pick in a lot of other years. If he needs to take a step back and learn how to be a role player... then either he isn't worth the #2 pick, or he's not the strong prospect he's made out to be. If we were taking Flagg, I don't think a reasonable person would say "Cooper needs to learn to take a step back first". That just sounds like Pop meme "he needs to get over himself". If Harper is as good as advertised, he should be able to step right in and be a dude from the get go *on a winning team*. He'll still be behind Wemby and Fox, but the same way JDub came in as a rookie and contributed to a .500 (effectively) OKC team as a rookie, or Chet for a Top Seeded OKC team as a "rookie", Harper should be able to do the same in my humble opinion.

I think the Spurs are very fortunate that two very promising young guys, Castle and Harper, have the luxury of coming in behind Wemby and Fox. Unlike Wemby, they won't be expected to come in right away and be the #1 guy or even the #2 guy. Pressure is reduced and they can develop on a more natural pace, but I disagree that we needed someone like Durant to even further reduce the pressure on them. Durant would have been nice (at least for one year) because he is a good player and he fit, but not so much because we need him in order to make sure Castle and Harper develop "the right way".

I think Castle should go back to more of the role he used to play at UCONN. Where he's focused on being the main point of attack defender and used as a cutter offensively. He'll still get plenty of opportunities as a secondary ballhandler, which is where he's most comfortable at anyway. Having him focus on defense, so it doesn't fall off a cliff like last season is very important in my opinion.

Harper playing off the ball is also a positive in my book. Let him work on his catch and shoot game and then use him as the primary initiator against benches. That's a good start to develop the type of player he is.

I have serious concerns about the FO being too passive. I think they will definitely bring in a back up C via draft or free agency, but not trading for a starting PF would really bother me. A player like Santi Aldama can decide where he wants to go and the Grizzlies won't get a first round pick in return. Neither would the Jazz for John Collins according to reports. PJ Washington should also be on the market.

These are all good 3-point shooters, rebounders and positive defenders who can be had for second round picks, are between 24 to 27 years old and can be part of the team for the next 4 years. Those contracts would be bargains in the last 2 and have trade value as well. To me getting a capable 3-and-D PF with legit size next to Victor is really what would unlock this team to make a playoff run and I absolutely don't want them to settle for Yabusele, just because they can pick him up for free, when there are better options available.

Then again a sign-and-trade for Aldama on the projected 4/70 deal for Branham works in the trade machine, so I still have some hope.

[LeBowen]

I have serious concerns about the FO being too passive.

We're too impatient.
I'll be upset if we miss out on the targets we've been talking about and they go elsewhere.
Until then, Wright has earned our trust with last season's moves, he did well both as a seller and a buyer.

[poopbox]

Let Castle, Fox, Harper, and Wemby play together for a couple seasons first.

Here’s where SA is in a great position there isn’t that pressure to win now. Nothing better than most of this elite talent on rookie contracts.

This team has had 6 straight losing seasons. There has not been any pressure to win in San Antonio for a LONG time

And your right. When you haven't won in 6 years, what's 3 or 4 more?

[poopbox]

I think part of his problem with Castle is that he thinks we over estimate him here considering what his numbers look like and I think he's right. All of these takes about the future assuming Castle as a max player don't really make sense to me at this juncture. I mean, I hope it's a problem because he reaches his ceiling, but I can't expect it yet.

Him being a max or near max player has almost nothing to do with what he does on the court. Historically top 5 picks, unless they just completely bust, second contracts are max or near max. I can tell you for sure after Castle 3rd year when he is extension eligible his agent is going to be coming to the Spurs with his hand out saying where is our max. And he is not going to site very many, or any, team basketball reasons why. He is going to have all these reports that say this team demanded castle in a trade that team demanded castle in a trade team X would only trade their player who has made 2 all star teams to the spurs if the spurs traded them Castle and say "Castle is clearly desired by all these other teams so either pay up or we will just go to one of these other teams that we know spent years trying to trade for him cause they will surely pay up".

Suns made it about as hard as you can on a top pick to get a max. They told Ayton he would literally have to go get a max offer from another nba team and that is the only way they would pay him one. It took him all of 5 minutes to get a max offer sheet from the Pacers and force the Suns to max him

[onechance87]

I can see s&t for Naz involving Vassell

Nah...no way timberwolves get involved in that salary.Thats a number they wont cross imo.

[exstatic]

Him being a max or near max player has almost nothing to do with what he does on the court. Historically top 5 picks, unless they just completely bust, second contracts are max or near max. I can tell you for sure after Castle 3rd year when he is extension eligible his agent is going to be coming to the Spurs with his hand out saying where is our max. And he is not going to site very many, or any, team basketball reasons why. He is going to have all these reports that say this team demanded castle in a trade that team demanded castle in a trade team X would only trade their player who has made 2 all star teams to the spurs if the spurs traded them Castle and say "Castle is clearly desired by all these other teams so either pay up or we will just go to one of these other teams that we know spent years trying to trade for him cause they will surely pay up".

Suns made it about as hard as you can on a top pick to get a max. They told Ayton he would literally have to go get a max offer from another nba team and that is the only way they would pay him one. It took him all of 5 minutes to get a max offer sheet from the Pacers and force the Suns to max him

[Someone who doesn’t understand seismic changes that the Second Apron has made]

[LeBowen]

Tbh, I want Aldama if we get Sorber because he's the only one who can play both PF and backup C fairly well.
He can start alongside Wemby and be the backup C if Sorber isn't good enough right away.

[mo7888]

Him being a max or near max player has almost nothing to do with what he does on the court. Historically top 5 picks, unless they just completely bust, second contracts are max or near max. I can tell you for sure after Castle 3rd year when he is extension eligible his agent is going to be coming to the Spurs with his hand out saying where is our max. And he is not going to site very many, or any, team basketball reasons why. He is going to have all these reports that say this team demanded castle in a trade that team demanded castle in a trade team X would only trade their player who has made 2 all star teams to the spurs if the spurs traded them Castle and say "Castle is clearly desired by all these other teams so either pay up or we will just go to one of these other teams that we know spent years trying to trade for him cause they will surely pay up".

Suns made it about as hard as you can on a top pick to get a max. They told Ayton he would literally have to go get a max offer from another nba team and that is the only way they would pay him one. It took him all of 5 minutes to get a max offer sheet from the Pacers and force the Suns to max him

Now...do that again and add the consequences of the 2nd apron and see if a rational FO would come to the same conclusion now.

[exstatic]

Now...do that again and add the consequences of the 2nd apron and see if a rational FO would come to the same conclusion now.

Right. He doesn’t see that Boston struggled and scuffled for years with the Tatum/Brown duo, and only when they added White, Jrue, and Porzingas did they get over the hump. They just essentially salary dumped two of those players, slamming shut their window all by themselves because they were a multiple second apron offender.

[Mr. Body]

Tbh, I want Aldama if we get Sorber because he's the only one who can play both PF and backup C fairly well.
He can start alongside Wemby and be the backup C if Sorber isn't good enough right away.

Should go hard for Aldama or Gafford, who seems to have been extended to be traded. The type of player the team needs. I'd try to get a C in the draft for development and a guy like those.

[Ice009]

I thought Gafford was extended to be kept? You think it's more for a trade?

[mo7888]

I thought Gafford was extended to be kept? You think it's more for a trade?

That's been the reporting on it..

[Leetonidas]

I thought Gafford was extended to be kept? You think it's more for a trade?

Possibly. They have AD/Lively/Gafford who can all play C. I assume that Lively is their starter going forward and they'd want to alternate lineups with AD at C (if he isn't being a giant vagina) and Flagg at PF. Who knows though. But surely one of Gafford or PJ is on their way out

[Seventyniner]

Dallas might not want to help the Spurs, but the Spurs do have a sweetener that no other team has in being able to undo the 2030 swap.

[LkrFan]

I found this little nugget on Elon's app:

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I thought Gafford was extended to be kept? You think it's more for a trade?

Gafford took an extension that is 3 years, at 120% and with 5% raises, which is the type of extension a player can do when being traded. The regular vet extension is at 140%. So it does seem more likely that he's getting traded somewhere.

[CGD]

Dallas might not want to help the Spurs, but the Spurs do have a sweetener that no other team has in being able to undo the 2030 swap.

Let me get this straight, you want to trade a possible lottery pick when the spurs are expected to be really good for Daniel freaking Gafford?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I found this little nugget on Elon's app:

KOC knows about as much about the Spurs as Doc Rivers knows about coaching.

F that guy.

[KDKSpurs24]

KOC knows about as much about the Spurs as Doc Rivers knows about coaching.

F that guy.

KOC posted in the comments to clarify that they were only talking in hypotheticals.

[Seventyniner]

Let me get this straight, you want to trade a possible lottery pick when the spurs are expected to be really good for Daniel freaking Gafford?

Gafford or maybe PJ. It's just a swap. Lots can change in 5 years but the Mavs won't tank into a year when they don't control their own pick. No guarantee the Spurs are elite at that point either. A swap plus filler for a rotation player is decent value imo.

Edit: the Spurs also have swap rights with MIN in 2030, so in order for the DAL30 swap to have any value the Mavs will need to be worse than both the Wolves and the Spurs that year. That makes it less valuable than single swap rights on like ATL26, BOS28, SAC31

[poopbox]

[Someone who doesn’t understand seismic changes that the Second Apron has made]

Second Apron won't have anything to do with what agents demand financially

No agent is going to say "oh you know what never mind we are not going to ask for a max we don't want to put you guys in the second apron"

The onus will be 100% on the spurs to say no and be willing to let Castle walk if it comes to that. It's not like every single team in the nba will be in the second apron 2 or 3 years from now and not be able to offer castle a monster contract.

Second apron hasn't actually stopped a team from doing anything. You seem to be dumb enough to view it as "the second apron made Boston break their team up" instead of viewing it as "the second apron did not stop Boston from putting together the most expensive payroll in nba history after they won an nba le"

The Boston Celtics were well aware of what the Holiday and White contracts would do to them financially and they gave both no hesitation.

Supermax Jaylen Brown no hesitation

[R. DeMurre]

I wonder if the pick swaps with Atlanta and Dallas looking less valuable by the day will make the FO think that using them sooner rather than later is a good option and a reasonable variation of "not skipping any steps."