Keldon is not a must-move, and STers have sort of memed themselves into a tizzy about him being on the team. The biggest question about Johnson really isn't his ability but his lack of consistency. He shot 38 percent from three between January and March. He shot 25 percent for the rest of the year. A lot of his flaws could be overlooked -- and the strengths he does have could be much more appreciated -- if he were that 38-percent guy all the time. I don't know how much of the issue is coaching versus individual discipline, but similar issues have affected a number of the team's players. They won't get close to their ceiling if Castle's and Harper's shooting shows the same stagnation or regression than Johnson has. Your best players have to be able to shoot threes. You can't outsource that.
people don't really get the context of Jollins stat line, he is essentially a 5 who shoots threes, the high fg% is due to rim runs and the 3pt% is the wide open shots generated by pops and being guarded by harden and trae young. the problem with this is you want your C ( the french guy ) doing this so they are not on the dunker spot or masquerading as a corner 3 wing.
He played the 4 exclusively last season. He's not a 5 nor has he ever been that.
He is a 5 on offense, much has been discussed about this before, there is an article on his early years about him wanting to be the 5 man and be the main pick and roll/pop big. the main problem is he has neither rim protection nor post defense so their always need to pair him with a rim protector. watch his clip with uta kessler is in the dunker while collins is the main roller or popper. even if you think you are smarter than every gm in the league who does not want to trade for him, you gotta acknowledge that there might be something wrong beyond his 50/40 stat line, it could be that he is a 5 on offense and no position on defense.
Last edited by rankingtear; 07-06-2025 at 05:50 AM.
First bolded line amounts to nothing but unnecessary theatrics
second bolded line is at this point an intentional misrepresentation because i specifically addressed this point
The role you’ve described is not dissimilar from what we saw Sochan doing last year, though. Collins just does it a lot better. He also made 55% of his shots from 3-10 feet while Sochan was at 36% from that same range.
Collins isn’t some ideal player but he could be had for not much and even if he doesn’t work out, is expiring
Exactly atleast were getting somewhere and some people getting the idea of Collins being a 5 despite listed as a 4. Just like Sochan last year. See people here can analyze basketball instead of throwing basketball reference numbers.
I ask you then where is Wemby during this possesion with Sochan as a rim runner, isn't he in the corner 3 most of the time. the point is Jollins is cutting the centers balls off in order to maximize his value not complementing it like everybody thinks.
I know it is not listed in basketball reference or craftedNBA so it might not be true.
Last edited by rankingtear; 07-06-2025 at 11:05 AM.
I don't think Collins is worth worrying about too much, and I certainly agree that there might be better uses for Keldon... I'm just commenting on your defense of the statement "Keldon is objectively better than Collins"
What proof? His 0.6 shots taken per game? How can you be a 3pt shooter, when you don't even take 3's? That's literally the complete opposite description.
Was Collins pinged for using steroids? If so, what's the full story on that? Was it for healing and injury type of thing?
Even if he's a 5 on offense he's definitely a 4 on defense, which is basically exactly what you would need next to Wemby, who plays like a 4 on offense and a 5 on defense. I view Collins as a better version of Sochan, so if that's the plan, they might as well go for it. The main reason is that he's cheap. You can go for better fits later if it doesn't work out, but he's certainly a better player than all of our other forwards which are Sochan, Keldon, Barnes and Champagnie.
Eh they only play him like a 4 to try integrating sochan but they went away from that the second half it is not just sochan cant shoot it is because Wemby not being involed in primary actions is dumb. defensively collins a weakside rim protector you make him defend the 5th option so he can sort roam and help, wemby is probably the c who needs weak side rim protection the least tbh. I just dont get the fit some are spewing around here. i think it is the opposite he is a good but if you dont get the context of how he gets his shot or how he is used defensively your just evaluating him at bball reference level. and nobody wants to argue with a stats page reader.
I'd assume I've watched a lot more Collins tape than you. He's a better perimeter defender than Barnes. He's pretty good at defending bigs. He shoots the corner 3 1% better than Barnes and on a worse team. Offensively he can screen and roll, but he can also pick & pop. He can handle, take players off the dribble, post up, cut and is a lob threat. He's also a better rebounder than Barnes and rebounding was one of our main issues. He's better than Barnes and Sochan, so he would be an upgrade over them.
If Mitch is in every postgame interview saying "we lacked physicality" and Will Hardy says "John is our tone setter when it comes to physicality" than that's the guy you should get, especially when he's way better than the 2 other guys you got on your roster who play that position.
Last edited by RC_Drunkford; 07-07-2025 at 02:54 AM.
I don't know how watching more tape has to do with anything. the discussion has gone another direction tbh. it was about him playing center on offense that is why he is registering a 50/40 statline. that is the context of the line.
I never thought J Collins was a superstar. He would have been a idle fit providing improved defense over other players at the position, shooting and interior offense and all within a reasonable budget.
OH well spurs decided he wasn't worth 2nds and matching salary. Annoying.
Jazz took on Slow-Mo who isn’t even expiring, and will make 9.7mil next season. So it’s not even like they were only demanding expiring contracts. Confirming he could have been had for keldon and some seconds
Kyle's contract next season is fully unguaranteed, so he's an expiring, essentially.Jazz took on Slow-Mo who isn’t even expiring, and will make 9.7mil next season. So it’s not even like they were only demanding expiring contracts. Confirming he could have been had for keldon and some seconds
Ah that helps.
fine
Collins wants a long term extension. Would it have been clearer why the Spurs didn’t want him if he were under contract for four years r/n?Jazz took on Slow-Mo who isn’t even expiring, and will make 9.7mil next season. So it’s not even like they were only demanding expiring contracts. Confirming he could have been had for keldon and some seconds
finally jollins discussion ends.
then thats fine, let him expire if you cant find something reasonable. you still would get off KJ's 26-27 contract while improving the club for 25-26
anyway its moot now
so he shoots 40% from 3 cause he plays center and if he played PF he wouldn't shoot 40% from 3?
i think the rationale is that one would get higher quality looks on average when being defended by opposing centers.
I get the feeling Utah wasn't ever going to take on any 26-27 salary in the deal. Or at least not for a net neutral at best player like Keldon.
Not at all surprised the Spurs weren't interested in Jollins...
Am very surprised that we haven't made any other moves to fill out the roster though.
I'm guessing we have a Bassey/Bismack resigning yet to come and probably signing some guy none of us have ever thought about.
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