Spurs Select F Jeremy Sochan with the 9th Pick in the 2022 NBA Draft

[Jordan Jackson]

They did a re-draft of Sochan’s draft class on Windhorst’s podcast and no one picked Jeremy.

Yup. Some on this board will continue to do mental gymnastics to justify the pick. But so far - it’s not looking good.

[dn0774]

Admittedly I am perhaps not a creative enough basketball mind, but I have such a hard time envisioning Sochan playing a significant role (ie starting or featured bench guy) with anything near the current skill set he possesses for a winning team in 2025. His presence is such a detriment to a teams offense that he would have to be generationally good on the defensive end (Draymond level) to make the juice worth the squeeze.

I hope he can figure it out on offense a bit ala Aaron Gordon, but Sochan doesn't grade out to be as athletic as Gordon (though their shooting signals thru the first 3 seasons are very similar).

[LeBowen]

Honestly, not much value was lost as long as he doesn't get an extension this summer.
We had a garbage roster, took a risk on a theoretical player, it failed which was the most likely outcome. Not that big of a deal considering all the value we got in the following drafts.
But we can't enter sunk cost fallacy territory and offer him an extension.

[KobesAchilles]

Admittedly I am perhaps not a creative enough basketball mind, but I have such a hard time envisioning Sochan playing a significant role (ie starting or featured bench guy) with anything near the current skill set he possesses for a winning team in 2025. His presence is such a detriment to a teams offense that he would have to be generationally good on the defensive end (Draymond level) to make the juice worth the squeeze.

I hope he can figure it out on offense a bit ala Aaron Gordon, but Sochan doesn't grade out to be as athletic as Gordon (though their shooting signals thru the first 3 seasons are very similar).

Aaron Gordon parked his ass in the corner and learned how to shoot. Meanwhile Sochan practiced fade away 3 pointers bc they look cool. The best we can hope for is to use him his typical 20 minutes a game next year on the bench.

[spurraider21]

Aaron Gordon parked his ass in the corner and learned how to shoot. Meanwhile Sochan practiced fade away 3 pointers bc they look cool. The best we can hope for is to use him his typical 20 minutes a game next year on the bench.

in the last 3 seasons (which includes the nuggets le run), gordon has attempted 2.5 threes per game and has made 36% of them. 3's have accounted for 24.5% of his total FGA. and only 35% of Gordon's 3PA have come from the corner

in his 3 year career sochan has attempted 2.5 threes per game as well, but he only makes 29% of them. they have accounted for 25.2% of sochan's FGA. and only about 31% of sochan's 3PA are from the corner

their 3pt shot diet is actually remarkably similar, gordon just makes them more. if you look at gordon's first 6 seasons he was making about 32% of his 3's

[KobesAchilles]

in the last 3 seasons (which includes the nuggets le run), gordon has attempted 2.5 threes per game and has made 36% of them. 3's have accounted for 24.5% of his total FGA. and only 35% of Gordon's 3PA have come from the corner

in his 3 year career sochan has attempted 2.5 threes per game as well, but he only makes 29% of them. they have accounted for 25.2% of sochan's FGA. and only about 31% of sochan's 3PA are from the corner

their 3pt shot diet is actually remarkably similar, gordon just makes them more. if you look at gordon's first 6 seasons he was making about 32% of his 3's

He has some crazy stat where he shot like 50% from the left corner and 25-30% from everywhere else. He has a sweet spot where he just learned how to shoot from and he does it at a high clip. But tbh I don’t see where this Aaron Gordon comparison even came to fruition. They play nothing alike. Gordon was winning dunk contests and showing off his athleticism while Sochan isn’t that good of an athlete at all.

[scott]

They did a re-draft of Sochan’s draft class on Windhorst’s podcast and no one picked Jeremy.

Dang, I'm a borderline Sochan hater, and that's even worse than I would have thought

[Mnky]

Yeah, I was saying that earlier in the thread about this past season.

He looked better by the end of the season, but he definitely seems to be lacking the "pop" or verticality/explosiveness he had his rookie season.

Maybe it's not resting enough during the off-season, his body still adjusting to the NBA grind, or something else? Still, I like his skill set even with the issues of a lack of an offensive game or perimeter shooting.

He's definitely a player you want in the tool box for the right price.

[LeBowen]

But tbh I don’t see where this Aaron Gordon comparison even came to fruition.

There's always a post.

Because he’s shot better than Aaron Gordon at this point in their respective careers? We don’t need him to be Steph Curry. If he can shoot 35-36% on 5 attempt,that’s fine. He’s shot 31% the last two years, higher than any year ofGordon’s first three. You howling hyenas will probably get your way, they’ll trade him, and he’ll go be some other team’s Aaron Gordon, instead of being ours, OKC if we’re really unlucky. He’d be a thorn in Wemby’s side for a decade.

[C-Dub]

Some people here has said in the past that Pop is mostly at fault for Sochan's short comings and growth for playing him out of position at PG and Center sometimes, but I've felt all along that Pop was trying to find some type of value out of Sochan because PATFO new he was not cut out to be who they thought he would be at PF position next to Wemby. Unfortunately, Sochan has a low IQ when it comes to passing and court awareness to become an initiator of the offense and he lacks the physical tools and athletic abilities to gaurd the Center position and get rebounds. Pop was only trying to give him the chance to show his worth and it didn't work out.

[ginobilized]

I truly hope that Sochan's role is limited and that he can learn to maximize it.
At most, I see him as a middling rotational player who brings some physicality, defensive pressure and swagger when needed.
He's a real wild card. Health might be part of that. The things I see with him that are the most troubling are his low basketball IQ and his odd demeanor.
There are times when his smiley affect seems really off with what's going on in a game. His role and iden y seem unformed. The new coaching staff might help mold him, but, as he is now, I don't see a player of decent value. Losing his Power of Friendship buddies needs to wake him the up. The coaches need to give him the correct role to succeed and a short leash when he is not with the program.

[KobesAchilles]

Some people here has said in the past that Pop is mostly at fault for Sochan's short comings and growth for playing him out of position at PG and Center sometimes, but I've felt all along that Pop was trying to find some type of value out of Sochan because PATFO new he was not cut out to be who they thought he would be at PF position next to Wemby. Unfortunately, Sochan has a low IQ when it comes to passing and court awareness to become an initiator of the offense and he lacks the physical tools and athletic abilities to gaurd the Center position and get rebounds. Pop was only trying to give him the chance to show his worth and it didn't work out.

Yeah the downside to drafting bench players who are 19 is that they have no idea how to play basketball. Now you hope they have the mental capacity to learn but it’s not a guarantee. Tbh if I’m the Spurs I would just have a film study as part of my draft process. The Spurs give them a quiz and see what their answers are. Bc we have some low IQ players on our team and I’m not sure if that’s coaching, if it’s player development, if it’s the players themselves that are stupid, but there’s no doubt that we drafted morons.

I can only pray that Bryant learns the game better than his predecessors. C’mon Sweeney!

[Pauleta14]

Some people here has said in the past that Pop is mostly at fault for Sochan's short comings and growth for playing him out of position at PG and Center sometimes, but I've felt all along that Pop was trying to find some type of value out of Sochan because PATFO new he was not cut out to be who they thought he would be at PF position next to Wemby. Unfortunately, Sochan has a low IQ when it comes to passing and court awareness to become an initiator of the offense and he lacks the physical tools and athletic abilities to gaurd the Center position and get rebounds. Pop was only trying to give him the chance to show his worth and it didn't work out.

Interesting speculation tbh, it makes sense considering the stupid bet they've done in recent past with Prime or Bryne

I've been emphasizing on Sochan numerous limitations when most Spurs fans have had an obsession with his 3pt shooting as if it'd change everything but his low BBIQ, apparent struggle to stay focus for extended periods or poor fundamentals limiting his passing or self shot creation around the rim, are far bigger issues long term and so incompatible with the type of high IQ, high passing, high versatility, type of game that comes with having Wemby.

[baseline bum]

Man, as much as I think ting on Sochan is funny; he's kind of been given a raw deal by the Spurs.

Senile/political poop was clearly functioning as well as the autopen administration.

Let Mitch cook.

I'm rooting for him.

Meh if you're so soft that playing 15-20 games of your career at PG ruins your career trajectory you weren't going anywhere anyways.

[Obstructed_View]

Some people here has said in the past that Pop is mostly at fault for Sochan's short comings and growth for playing him out of position at PG and Center sometimes, but I've felt all along that Pop was trying to find some type of value out of Sochan because PATFO new he was not cut out to be who they thought he would be at PF position next to Wemby. Unfortunately, Sochan has a low IQ when it comes to passing and court awareness to become an initiator of the offense and he lacks the physical tools and athletic abilities to gaurd the Center position and get rebounds. Pop was only trying to give him the chance to show his worth and it didn't work out.

Starting to think now that Pop was trying to get Jeremy invested enough to give full effort. He strikes me as a guy who skates by on his talent and spends more time pretending to practice than actually practicing.

[SupremeGuy]

Meh if you're so soft that playing 15-20 games of your career at PG ruins your career trajectory you weren't going anywhere anyways.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying, but he's what? 23? If he were in his late 20s then yeah.

His contract future really depends on how the new guys play.

Like I said, let ing Mitch cook.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

https://www.si.com/nba/spurs/news/12...a-01k2qqapt94r

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Tldr gortat says sochan needs to shoot better

[KobesAchilles]

Tldr gortat says sochan needs to shoot better

Someone needs to show Gortat Sochans IG workout clip. Look at the elbow, Sochan already has already fixed his shot. Duh

[scott]

“His role for the Spurs has diminished lately," former NBA center Marcin Gortat said, speaking on Sochan. "He plays some minutes at the five; he comes off the bench. Sometimes he’s more of a forward. On the other night(s, he) plays a lot in the pick and roll."

The Polish forward may see that as a positive of his game — it makes him versatile. Gortat doesn't share the same sentiment.
"There are no set plays for him," he said, "because he’s not a ‘go-to guy’ for the Spurs ... his role is still not set."

Some Spurs fans see this as a positive for Sochan... but I agree with Gortat, it's more of a sign of a guy without a role. People always talk about Sochan's unique skill set... but unique does not always equal useful.

[Splits]

Vecceni discusses Sochan's extension, future here:

http://www.youtube.com/live/lIwRNNfo...HqG9puVBVVMDRg

tldr; good trade candidate since questionable fit on Spurs, guesses extension would be in $16-24m/year range

[Pauleta14]

Just listened to Venceni's podcast as well

As usual they overrate Sochan (lmao at the 18-22M extension), I can't blame them, 30 teams to analyze and the Spurs, especially without Wemby, are probably among the teams they watch the least.

Trading Sochan makes a lot of sense tho with Carter on the roster but I don't believe PATFO will admit its failure by trading him nor that there would be a lot of interest in the league for a non shooter with poor fundamentals and often injured.

Best option imo is to give him one last shot this season and let him walk if he doesn't show massive improvements.

[spurraider21]

they also mention the kings as a fit for him. if we've learned anything recently, its that trading with the kings tends to be good business

[ambchang]

It seems like the Spurstalk chosen whipping boy this year is Sochan, as his seemingly lack of improvement in outside shooting and upcoming possible extension are becoming a lightening rod of his value as a player.

While many of his criticisms are valid (shooting mostly, questionable ball handling and ability as a creator), I am still unclear as to what some of the other issues are, namely:
Basketball IQ
Sure he isn't the next Larry Bird, or even Boris Diaw, but I am not sure what people are expecting here. Diaw wasn't a high IQ player when he was a younger player and was pretty bad when he was with the Hawks. he had a huge jump when he moved to the Suns and that's when his offence came around. He gets compared to Aaron Gordan as a stretch goal for as a finished product, and Aaron Gordan has NEVER been considered a high IQ player, even though I would say Gordan is significantly more athletic. Offensively, Draymond didn't come to his own until his forth season, at age 25. I am not saying Sochan will ever have that level of basketball IQ either offensively or defensively, but that's OK. The Spurs are not looking for a superstar at every level, we are looking at a defensive specialists who can knock down (or at least take) an occasional open three.

Defence
This one just got me scratching my head. Sochan, but most measures, is a good defender. He is highly versatile, able to guard anyone from 1 to smaller 4s.
Of the 459 players in the league who defended more than 5FGA/GM in the restricted area, Sochan ranked 59th in opponent FG% at 63.2, same as Isaiah Joe, Jaren Jackson Jr, Jrue Holiday, Dort and some other elite defenders. For reference, Wemby ranked 39th at 62.3%. (4th on the team, 3rd for regulars behind Wemby and Champaigne).
Of 396 players in the league who defended more than 5FGA/GM in the non-restricted paint area, Sochan ranked 216 (pretty meh I have to say). For reference, Wemby is right above Holmgren at 84. (7th on the team, 4th for the regulars behind Wemby, Champagnie, and Castle).
Of 303 players in the league who defended more than 3FGA/GM from mid range, Sochan ranked 199. Riley Minix ranked number 1 in this at 25%, but something about sample size . (6th on the team, 3rd for the regulars behind Wemby and Fox)
Of 382 players in the league who defended more than 3FGA/GM from corner 3s, Sochan ranked 66 (3rd worst on the team, so we defended the corner threes quite well as a team).
And finally, of the 530 players who defended more than 3FGA/GM from the above the break 3 zone, Sochan ranked 281 (Yikes). But it appears to be more of a team issue as he is actually 6th on the team, and best in terms of players getting meaningful minutes (Spurs players better than him were Minix, Bassey, Branham [WTF?], Mamu, and Wesley).
So other than mid range, Sochan is one of the better defenders in all zones for the team, and 87th percentile in the restricted area and 83rd percentile on corner threes. He's pretty meh in non-restricted paint area (45th), midrange (34th) and above the break three (47th%) but by no means is he horrible in any of them.

He is not in the Draymond zone of defender, or even close to it, but on this team, he is clearly one of the best defenders.

Passing
As a pick and roll ball handler, Sochan is surprisingly 82nd percentile in the league according to NBA advanced stats. To be fair, I am not sure what the percentile means but it appears to be points per possession. Note the sample size is quite small as he only has 0.5 possessions per game as a handler with only 4.3% frequency.

Finishing
As a pick and roll finisher, he is actually 73rd %tile in the league. The sample size is actually pretty good too at 1.6 possessions per game, which is good for 52 out of 267 players (cut off is for players with minimum of 10 mins/game and 10 possessions throughout the season).

[spurraider21]

if he's a good player then why dont he play good